[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by Rahulk76

3. Petrol is more expensive to store and i guess produce as well ( i might be wrong here) than diesel.
Lets not loose sleep over arguing counter arguing
edit: I guess every one who buys so called diesel "SUV" is already paying a premium over petrol counter parts right ? I wonder why then these comments come from. The govt coffers are getting richer anyways from these sales.

Thanks RahulK. Yes true, indeed diesel is an early distillate from crude oil in the refining process and petrol is a later stage distillate. Hence subsidy or no subsidy- diesel is priced cheaper vis-a-vis petrol in any case.

[nowwhat?]

Originally Posted by carboy

I think Jairam Ramesh has been one of the better env ministers till date.

No doubt Jairam Ramesh is passionate about his minister-ship and I for one am pleased to see a minister who actually shows some interest in whatever cabinet position one holds.

I still remember him going all around India for discussions on BT Brinjal and being pilloried as an agent of Monsanto, etc. During his visit to Bangalore, he sat through the discussion and a few days later he did a total about-turn and disallowed BT Brinjal.

So as far as Jairam goes, I think he is entitled to his views based on the portfolio he holds. If you read his statement properly, he has a gripe with subsidized diesel being used to fuel gas-guzzling SUVs.

In any case, it is quite obvious that the minister is not an auto-enthusiast. Otherwise he would have at least named car brands that were more appropriate.

Originally Posted by carboy

This figure was quoted by one Indian newspaper based on some anonymous source. Then all other newspaper quoted that newspaper as a cite for that figure. It also spread to the US right wing blogs etc.

I still haven't been able to locate a non-anonymous cite for this figure.

The pits of Indian BREAKING NEWS journalism.

Many in the US ran a full analysis on the $200 million a day price tag and found that the source for this news is NDTV who themselves got the information from an "unidentified source".

As far as I know, NDTV never retracted the story.

[Ricky_63]

Mr. Jairam being an educated man, should FIRST find out about which vehicles actually pollute the atmosphere. There is enough information available to him to get his facts right. The Mercs, BMW's that he is talking about use cutting edge technology to reduce emissions & enhance fuel efficiency. Hence are amongst the least polluting.

Let him or whosoever else concentrate on removing congestion & traffic jams, where in there is far far more pollution caused due to 1000's of idling engines.

Let him also take a look at the fleet of government owned vehicles. If he does all of the above I am sure he will honorable enough to take back his words - making sweeping statements without foundation is unbecoming of a gentleman of his stature.

This topic is endless, we can quote a hundred examples & argue forever. Ultimately it is for the government to find it's feet.

One word = RIDICULOUS

[harishpr]

Im glad that atleast some minister is worried about the 'Subsidized Fuel' thats taken for granted here and letting flow like water without any concern.

IMHO, no subsidy should be given to fuels going into Pvt vehicles. Since this was introduced for the benefit of Farmers and transportation vehicles, some kinda identity card or identification on the number plate should be provided to avail Diesel at discounted rates. Rest all (that forms major chunck) should buy fuel at the actual price.

There are lot of reports floating on the net about the rapid decline of fuel reserves across the globe. Maybe in the next 10 years we will see lot of electric and hybrid vehicles coming our way...

[sgiitk]

I suggest that the minister drives Kanpur-Unnao (20km) on NH25 (the first section on the GQ to be taken up was NH25 - Lucknow to Kanpur) and he will know why SUVs are necessary.

Alternatively, though not such a high profile road yesterday it took me almost three and a half hours on NH92 (Etawah-Gwalior) on the less than 45km between Bhind and Gohad. This road is also under NHAI.

I am a regular on both. A double whammy within 24 hours of each other were enough. I am regretting NOT buying an SUV! Roads are getting really bad. Both were decent roads till a couple of years ago.

Mr Minister, your colleague Mr Kamal Nath makes it necessary to get an SUV even for major roads, else we will have to ride (probably better) tractors. If you want us to refrain from SUVs FIX the roads.

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I suggest that the minister drives Kanpur-Unnao (20km) on NH25 (the first section on the GQ to be taken up was NH25 - Lucknow to Kanpur) and he will know why SUVs are necessary.

Alternatively, though not such a high profile road yesterday it took me almost three and a half hours on NH92 (Etawah-Gwalior) on the less than 45km between Bhind and Gohad. This road is also under NHAI.

I am a regular on both. A double whammy within 24 hours of each other were enough. I am regretting NOT buying an SUV! Roads are getting really bad. Both were decent roads till a couple of years ago.

Mr Minister, your colleague Mr Kamal Nath makes it necessary to get an SUV even for major roads, else we will have to ride (probably better) tractors. If you want us to refrain from SUVs FIX the roads.

sgiiitk would love to welcome you into the large family of SUV owners.SUV's today are like the Ambassador of yore.The Ambassador met most of our requirements for journeys on bad roads.

[Scorcher]

Bah, these nut head politicians and their senseless statements I say!

If diesel consumption is the ISSUE, there are other SUVs in India with same spec diesel engines. Say, Ford Endeavor Thunder and Fortuner and TLCPrado too uses 3.0 diesel engines which is the exact spec of all German SUVs except the Audi Q7 4.2 V8 which is a very recent offering, in that case even the LC200 uses a 4.2 V8 mill. Then why target the Germans? The blocks they use are most-modern diesel mills which mastered the performance-economy balance, at least much better than the Americans and Japs.

[sgiitk]

Now he backtracks. He is happy with SUVs. Only crib is private cars using 'subsidised' diesel.

Mr Minister it is not subsidised, but with a lower rip-off (aka taxation). Make taxation the same and I can assure him that diesel car sales will drop at least 20%.

To add:
Take subsidy off kerosene, and sales will drop 60%. Also, diesel sales will rise a lot. Also, you will have lower pollution.
Take subsidy off LPG and cylinders will be available off the shelf.

[bhp_maniac]

The only feasible method to cover this is taxation while selling the car. Increase the taxation on luxury diesels. Any other method suggested like annual tax, differentiation between farmer vehicles/ private carriers all will end up in another mess. I know people who have more than 3,4 luxury cars and their job is "Farmer" and they are BPL too In such a very very big population where even the BPL strategies are not been perfect, will they be able to effectively impose a plan where only the farmers are benefited? I doubt.

Regarding mandatory FE standards, YES its a welcome move for all customers. But the question is how confident will the manufacturer will be when we have excellent to heavily potholed roads in our country? If we have good roads, I am sure we will be burning a lot lesser fuel daily. First correct the roads and bring good infrastructures like fly overs in major cities to minimize traffic and idling waits in signal. For e.g. in our city, Kochi we have two major bottle necks. The North/South railway over bridge. I need to travel for 30 mins for 4 kms from my home to office and in that more than 15 minutes I spend on this 100-200 meter bridge. Even though we are assuming there are 100 cars in the area at that time, it will be 100*15 = 1500 minutes of idling due to this. How much oil we are wasting due to this? Why can't they invest some money and broaden the bridge. That will save a lot, isn't it?

The idea is first try to bring in good infrastructure for the vehicles to burn oil and then speak about luxury SUV's.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by bhp_maniac

Increase the taxation on luxury diesels.

How do you define a luxury diesel?

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by tsk13

Entire text available at - Use of SUVs in India criminal says Jairam Ramesh - India - DNA
The minister further adds that SUV's can be a recipe for Disaster like the US. US had large chunk of fuel guzzling Hummers where-as in India, the number is miniscule. I've seen people who are happy with the Fuel Economy of their Diesel SUV's (the mainstream ones). After reading the entire text, I'm still confused over whether the minister terms Diesel SUV's as criminal on the basis of Fuel Economy, Emissions, Diesel Subsidy etc.

World over its an accepted fact that SUV/UV/SUT's constitute about 40% of all passenger cars sold. In India this figure is about 20% today. Also one person driving a 7 seater SUV is generating an awfully big carbon footprint, not to mention space wastage on our city roads. Now if considering the minister's argument, we impose a 'pollution/luxury' tax on all large SUV's, we can hopefully restrict the suv usage to below 20% of all passenger car's sold, and promote a more rational utilization of our resources.
I do not mean to offend any SUV lovers/owners here, just logically trying to analyze the minister's comments.

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by carboy

How do you define a luxury diesel?

That is something to be defined by the govt. From the public's point of view it varies. For me, a car above 15L is luxury. But that varies from people to people. So some study should be carried out by the govt. and should be decided after that.
For example, in case of taxation they have limit like above and below 1.3Litre ? Another thing which can be implemented is a tax discount based on FE. That will for sure attract lot manufacturers.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by bhp_maniac

That is something to be defined by the govt. From the public's point of view it varies. For me, a car above 15L is luxury. But that varies from people to people. So some study should be carried out by the govt. and should be decided after that.
For example, in case of taxation they have limit like above and below 1.3Litre ? Another thing which can be implemented is a tax discount based on FE. That will for sure attract lot manufacturers.

But why is it that cars belows 1.3 L should be allowed to use subsidized diesel without the additional tax? What's so special about them?

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by carboy

But why is it that cars belows 1.3 L should be allowed to use subsidized diesel without the additional tax? What's so special about them?

No, 1.3L limit is for excise duty cut no. I was not mentioning the same benchmark for diesel. I was just mentioning it as an example where govt. has imposed a benchmark. Something of that sort, can be implemented in the case of taxation of diesel cars.

[harishnair]

Originally Posted by carboy

But why is it that cars below 1.3 L should be allowed to use subsidized diesel without the additional tax? What's so special about them?

These small diesels constitute a chunk of the private diesel vehicle market and cause more loss to the exchequer than the so-called luxury diesels. Govt. should either put a one time tax for these diesel vehicles or increase the price of diesel fuel for private vehicles to be on par with that of petrol.