[m_upreti]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Scorpio sells about 4000 units a month vs 1000 odd for the Safari. All I am saying is that, I feel it is silly to argue that all 1000 units are bought because it appeals to the heart and 4000 unis are sold because it appeals to the head. Although, I did not need any blood thinning medication when I took delivery of the Scorpio, I am sure that many people have bought Scorpio for the heart... and not just for the head.


I wouldn't buy an XUV either, and agree with most of points you highlighted. When the electronic fiddly bits fail down the line, it is going to be a pain to keep this vehicle without head ache.

My Scorpio was all heart though I would still prefer a Jeep or Gypsy with no electronic hassels.

XUV would have been heart again, but thankfully the bookings closed and head pevailed. So waiting for the initial whoopla and issues to be taken care (actually waiting for the delivery of my friends XUV to have an in depth feel without spending the moolah).

And it would be interesting to have a look at the Merlin (and the new Fortuner), specially what Tata does in the light of the XUV launch and how much they can come up to the standards it might set. It is a good decision on their part to delay the launch and have a rethink before venturing out and landing into another Aria soup (no offence to the excellent vehicle it is, just wrong pricing and marketing).

[Latheesh]

Another pic - courtesy: Bharath Autos

[himanshugoswami]

Tata is STILL testing the Merlin! Sheesh.....and in the meanwhile Mahindra launched the XUV and is laughing all the way to the bank.

I am so glad i did not defer my buying decision and wait for the Merlin.....i would have still been waiting!

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Another pic - courtesy: Bharath Autos

Is it only me or the headlights look weird and asymmetrical ?

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Is it only me or the headlights look weird and asymmetrical ?

It looks asymmetrical to me too. I dont think TATA will commit such a blunder, but after seeing Maximo's photo in Tata's report, tata can do anything, i wont be surprised.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

It looks asymmetrical to me too. I dont think TATA will commit such a blunder, but after seeing Maximo's photo in Tata's report, tata can do anything, i wont be surprised.

come on, it isnt its the camouflage paper sticking around.

[koushik]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Another pic - courtesy: Bharath Autos

I suspect that Merlin is not based on Aria platform. Aria has a very long wheelbase of 2850 mm . In the spy picture the wheelbase does not seem to be that long !

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by koushik

I suspect that Merlin is not based on Aria platform. Aria has a very long wheelbase of 2850 mm . In the spy picture the wheelbase does not seem to be that long !

One of the above post mentioned that a shortened aria platform will be used to bbuild the merlin, making it more rugged.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Is it only me or the headlights look weird and asymmetrical ?

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

It looks asymmetrical to me too. I dont think TATA will commit such a blunder

It's a bit of the camoflage film on the right headlight (passenger side)

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

One of the above post mentioned that a shortened aria platform will be used to bbuild the merlin, making it more rugged.

How will they get 7 passengers in the Aria with a shortened Aria platfrom? Could be possible by it all depends on how they seat the passengers on the rear - sideways or front facing. One shortens the Aria platform then the luggage space behind the rear seats will dissapear and the rear seats already only take kids.

We already know that the spare tyre goes behind the rear so this may just make some sense but it is not that simple to place a car from one platfrom on top of another keeping the top almost the same.

Yes guys at workshops do this but while developing a car it will require a lot more dwelling upon as one is then almost integrating two cars into one.

If they are to do half the integration then would they then keep the New Safari as an AWD or as an on demand manual shift on the fly - proper 4X4?

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by ACM

How will they get 7 passengers in the Aria with a shortened Aria platfrom?

Tata really doesnt care about comfort. If they do we should have seen 7 seater captain seats version in the safari by now. If they shorten the chassis, they would definitely compromise on space. 3rd will be bench and best to seat kids / helper or Pets.

[kaks15]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Is it only me or the headlights look weird and asymmetrical ?

After looking at XUV's hideous design and the response it got from the market, its safe to say anything sells just give them a proper price.
But I guess its the camouflage paper that is making it look like this.

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Tata really doesnt care about comfort. If they do we should have seen 7 seater capain seats version in the safari by now. If they shorten the chassis, they would definetly compromise on space. 3rd will be bench and best to seat kids / helper or Pets.

Are nt you going a bit overboard here, I think Indica was very comfortable vehicle from tata stable when it was launched and this still holds true for vista. Is scorpio a very comfortable product? every auto manufacturer would love to provide a complete package with all the constraints of costing safety purpose etc.
Lets wait for the vehicle to come out, sit in it, TD it and then give the verdict whether its ""comfortable" or not.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by kaks15

After looking at XUV's hideous design and the response it got from the market, its safe to say anything sells just give them a proper price.
But I guess its the camouflage paper that is making it look like this.

<rant>
I tend to agree with your assessment of the XUV's styling, but there's more to it than just proper price. It's all about "perceived value". In India, the SUV tag (which comes bundled with size) and how-much-style matters too. Now, I made up that how-much-style phrasing; it's hard to explain but style sometimes is measured in the amount of curves/slashes/cuts/grills/chrome etc. by a lot of people, that's what I was trying to convey.

There's no denying that Mahindra understands the market better than Tata, they really do; and they play to their strengths. I can only hope that the Merlin is sensibly priced.

</end-rant>

Originally Posted by kaks15

Are nt you going a bit overboard here, I think Indica was very comfortable vehicle from tata stable when it was launched and this still holds true for vista. Is scorpio a very comfortable product? every auto manufacturer would love to provide a complete package with all the constraints of costing safety purpose etc.
Lets wait for the vehicle to come out, sit in it, TD it and then give the verdict whether its ""comfortable" or not.

Tata vehicles usually do quite well in terms of passenger (back seat) comfort. However, I always thought that when the Indica came out with it's fantastic rear seat legroom numbers, my experience differed from what the numbers suggested. True the backrest was perfectly angled, true I had tonnes of legroom, but I find under-thigh support to be of critical importance. That's where, in my opinion, the Palio at that time came out ahead. It had the best compromise between under-thigh support and straight-up legroom. The Vista, Manza and Safari are a different story.

From whatever we've seen of the Merlin, I have a feeling that Tata cannot take the fight to the XUV with this vehicle. If the XUV's price stays at similar levels (after the intro. pricing is over, say no more than a 40K increase), the freshness of that product would trump the Merlin's overhauled Safari design. My strategy would have been to simply replace the Safari with the Merlin (still call it Safari), then come out with a completely new version whenever it's ready. While Safari has had a lot of niggles, there's still some halo around the brand (Safari, not Tata) with the less automobile inclined. It might be a good idea to invest in that brand.

Anyway, we'll see how this goes.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by Amartya

From whatever we've seen of the Merlin, I have a feeling that Tata cannot take the fight to the XUV with this vehicle. If the XUV's price stays at similar levels (after the intro. pricing is over, say no more than a 40K increase), the freshness of that product would trump the Merlin's overhauled Safari design. My strategy would have been to simply replace the Safari with the Merlin (still call it Safari), then come out with a completely new version whenever it's ready. While Safari has had a lot of niggles, there's still some halo around the brand (Safari, not Tata) with the less automobile inclined. It might be a good idea to invest in that brand.

Anyway, we'll see how this goes.

Tend to agree. My Neighbour who has taken the XUV test ride still wants to buy the "New Safari" and is just waiting for it to be launched. Would have bought the current one, but with the new one round the corner is waiting. It just has this halo around that sub brand. We know almost for sure that the name "Safari" will continue (from informal TATA Sources - "too much brand equity invested in it) and that "Merlin" is just the working project name, so if they are anyways going to phase out the current Safari then obviously the new one would be the Merlin in the same current name.

It is just that some reports have spoken about both versions continuing at the same time and we need to see how that goes.

The other thing is that if the Merlin is indeed based on the Aria Platform then it would be as good as completely new (while look more or less similar to the current one), vs if this was just picked up bits and pieces from the Aria. We have seen reports stating it both ways so that is another bit to watch out for.

[ra'ul M]

Guys, I have a small question.
For the last umpteen pages, there has been a comparison between the Safari [old and new] and the XUV 500 but I am yet to figure out why?
I did a small test drive of the XUV in Gurgaon [the Gurgaon with broken roads] and found it to be very very different in every aspect from the Safari, save for the price.
The XUV is a truly VFM product but a direct comparison is still unjustified. I have had extensive backseat experience in the Safari on roads which have to be seen to be believed [H.P. villages] and apart from the rattling backdoor there is not really a single big issue with it.
Now consider this.
The New Safari comes with the new storage for the spare tyre, certainly better finished interiors, improvements to the ride and handling [?], better interior packaging and improvements in gadgetry and thanks to the XUV, much better pricing.
Will it still fail? I don't think so. There are enough people who prefer classic lines over excessive sculpting, ladder on frame over unibody, simplistic over flashy and vice versa. IMO the XUV and the New Safari can happily co- exist and make many more people convert to BIG affordable cars without emptying their wallets.

What is left for TATA and Mahindra to improve is the overall experience and reliability and get the confidence of the customers .

[smsrini]

Though I've not TD-ed a XUV, I tend to agree with Ra'ul.

The work done on the Merlin will not go waste if they tweak it further, and introduce it as the 2012 Safari facelift.

The safari package offers a lot, as is, save for the fit and finish, and other small niggles. So Tata should bring these issues to a closure, and offer the Safari at an extremely competitive price to beat the XUV.

Put the Spare wheel back on the door or behind the rear door on a separate mount.
Significantly improve the plastics, fit & finish.
Shed about 100kilos, of body weight. Aluminium bonnet, doors, roof, tailgate
Improve the front suspension quality
Implement the facelift - nose, headlamps, bumper, fenders.

and you have a winner on hand!

cheers!