Great discussion, guys. Some very insightful perspectives.
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Originally Posted by vb-san Toyota & Nissan: I will not consider these as premium brands, bringing VFM options. |
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Originally Posted by sith_lord I find it hard to put Toyota in premium segment. |
I don't mean Toyota being premium in the "BMW" sense. However, their products do successfully command a premium price over Suzuki / Hyundai / Tata / Mahindra (as they do in the rest of the world too).
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Originally Posted by psbali In big cities but my Aria Pride model was 16.6 lacs on road as it was registered out of octroi and on top of that I saved another 40k by getting the insurance and registration done by myself. So atleast for me it is not expensive but rather VFM. At times you can also blame the high prices on local levies and not just on the manufacturers.
So does Aria Pride even at 16.6 lacs on road seem to be overpriced? |
Even its direct competitors would be proportionately cheaper by saving on octroi / insurance, wouldn't they? It's not an Aria-specific pricing advantage.
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Originally Posted by radiokidb You are comparing the base Altis which does not have any features and the top specced Kizashi. |
Features alone don't make a car. The Altis is the current C+ segment leader and hence, I used it as a base for comparison. The top-loaded Altis is still cheaper by 3+ lakhs than the Kizashi. And believe me, the Altis has all the features that most buyers want. It also has a wonderful track record.
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan But one would generally feel like cribbing like the blazes if one is asked to pay big money for a Tata or a Maruti or a Mahindra World SUV despite these vehicles being super-loaded with features etc. |
I don't think anyone would crib if Tata & Mahindra prove they have the quality, reliability & finesse that's expected in a premium product. For instance, the market has given the thumbs down to the Sonata. But, in my books, the Sonata common-rail is one of the best luxo-sedans you can buy for the price. I'd pick it over a Laura any which day.
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We are all overly familiar with these Indian marques but are not sufficiently motivated to pay big bucks for them.
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The Indian marques are also known for inconsistent quality, reliability, after-sales and on-road manners. Tata & Mahindra have a long way to go before they can start charging premiums.
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Originally Posted by ACM When will Honda learn? (It is now reduced to a 1 model wonder in India) |
That's a million dollar question ACM. Hopefully, the Jazz has provided them with a thorough education.
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Originally Posted by snorting bull Kizashi priced at around $20K in the US is priced in India at 16.5 L !! Surely companies have determined India to be a place for minting money. |
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Originally Posted by designersf IMHO Maruti would be having the same margin (or slightly more) as their US model. Blame the high price to the import duties. Half the price goes to the Govt which embezzles them. |
Well, though I insist the Kizashi is overpriced, Maruti did manage to place it slightly below the Accord (as in other markets). Consumer Reports - a publication I deeply trust & respect - has this to
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The Suzuki Kizashi is kind of a head scratcher. It's not a bad car, but it isn't likely to turn the family-sedan segment on its ear, either.
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The problem is, the family sedan market is already full of a number of really good contenders, whose names and reputations are better known to the families buying them. And while the Kizashi is big for a Suzuki, it's smaller than what competitors offer in the same price range.
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And families are usually more concerned with interior room and bottom line than auto up/down windows. Call it what you will, the small sedan or family sedan market is a tough one to break into. As I transition into our $21,800 Hyundai Sonata, it is clear that Kizashi has its work cut out for it.
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Equally, the Kizashi is already considered a flop in North American (the market it was designed for), selling an average of 400+ units in a month. It's direct competitor - the Accord - does over 25,000.
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Originally Posted by ajay0612 It is those few people whose rationality forces manufacturers to provide more 'real value' than superficial one (i.e. brand premium). |
Sorry to say, it's not those "few people". Toyota & Honda have several sales toppers the world over. And atleast one of them has made it to the world's No.1 in volume. There is nothing "superficial" about the "rationality" why Toyota & Honda find buyers amongst us. We pay for well-rounded products that guarantee hassle-free ownership.
The premium their products command isn't based on advertisements; it is on real world experiences where their vehicles have proved stupendously durable & reliable. Whichever resource you use for brand reliability & durability, you'll see Toyota or Honda in the top list.
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Well. Such an accusation needs to be supported by data. The charge dismisses the whole system of product testing, homologation and approval process. I don't think so many people buying Tata vehicles can remain guinea pig for such a long time.
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Tata's vehicles do have reliability issues and that's a well-documented fact across several resources. As an owner of an '07 Indigo, I can attest to the same too. The number of niggles & problems are terribly annoying. I'm not one to sell my car before they complete 8 - 10 years....however, I am considering replacing the Indigo with a real workhorse this year. I don't remember the last time I sold a car within 4 years.
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For them, there is long winding line at the counter of Fortuner.
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No longer. Fortuners have already started becoming available within a month or two of booking in many metros (check Fortuner test thread). The backlog should be cleared. Expect the same across the board soon.