[AirWind]

Are you sure it was VCDi or TCDi?

VCDi represents Variable Geometric Turbo... and not a Fixed Turbo in TCDi, so the power output must be good and linear.

Originally Posted by Naparajito

He stopped in some dhaba. We too stopped there and acted as if it was a normal petrol beat just being transported. Then i asked that guy what was that VDCi badging? He replied that it was a diesel and its gonna be launched soon. It'll have a 1L engine with a output of 63Bhp. Then we left as it was getting late.

[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by AirWind

Are you sure it was VCDi or TCDi?

VCDi represents Variable Geometric Turbo... and not a Fixed Turbo in TCDi, so the power output must be good and linear.

Maybe this explains the 9 additional horses over the initially speculated 54 horses! Cheers, its very good news for us petrolheads! Err.. maybe dieselheads?

[anu21v]

with the Latest spate of Petrol Price rise, This car is looking sweeter deal day by day. Now all I am bothered about is the Mileage numbers. Anything above 23 KMPL and starting price point below 4.5 Lakh looks too good a deal to me. Damn those Nissan and VW guys who priced that Micra and Polo diesels at 5.85 and 6.00 Lakhs. Guess I should be able to purchase even the top end Beat with Airbag, Alloys, Auto AC below that price.

I am hoping Chevy doesnt dishes out beat diesel without those top end features like Airbag and Alloys which many other diesel manfactureres do. An Automatic option would be even nicer.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by anu21v

with the Latest spate of Petrol Price rise, This car is looking sweeter deal day by day. Now all I am bothered about is the Mileage numbers. Anything above 23 KMPL and starting price point below 4.5 Lakh looks too good a deal to me. Damn those Nissan and VW guys who priced that Micra and Polo diesels at 5.85 and 6.00 Lakhs. Guess I should be able to purchase even the top end Beat with Airbag, Alloys, Auto AC below that price.

I am hoping Chevy doesnt dishes out beat diesel without those top end features like Airbag and Alloys which many other diesel manfactureres do. An Automatic option would be even nicer.

Yes, and not to forget what a looker Beat is! I think Beat D will change the game completely. It will be a case study for the years to come. For other hatch makers as to how GM pulled it off, IF they price it what everyone is expecting of them. It will be the new Figo.

And, did you say Beat D with autobox? Boy o' boy, I would kill for one.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Yes, and not to forget what a looker Beat is! I think Beat D will change the game completely. It will be a case study for the years to come. For other hatch makers as to how GM pulled it off, IF they price it what everyone is expecting of them. It will be the new Figo.
And, did you say Beat D with autobox? Boy o' boy, I would kill for one.

I dont know why they cant have the Automatic here in India whereas european and Korea Spark have it fitted in there.

I agree on beat looks, there are no two opinion as to whether Beat is the Best looker car (with almost the best value for money). Although I hardly think the price which everyone has been suggesting can be offered by GM. If i sample how foreign manufactures have priced their Diesel Cars Recently, I have real doubts on that pricing news in previous posts.

Foreign manufactures have to simply plonk in engines which are normally developed for some other markets hence no engineering cost burden is put for indian market. Guess no other manufacturers in india except Tata and mahindra has to bear the cost of engine design (not even maruti).

But in this case GM has announced this is a newly developed engine in their bangalore engineering centre, which gives me real worry as far as cost structure of this car goes . Definitely a high priced car for me. which is why in my opinion the key clincher will be the mileage and ride quality and not the price.

Going by the Micra and i20 Example, one might not even have Diesels on the lowest variants. Micra doesnt have XE and XL variant on Diesel while i20 doesnt have Era Diesel. Moreso some of the diesels miss out the top features in top variants like Airbag, ABS and Alloys. (Sample this no i20 Asta Option on diesel, No Ritz ZXI diesel, No Swift ZXI diesel).In fact I dont remember any diesel HB with auto gearbox. I am just hoping the GM guys dont dish out this step brotherly treatment to their Diesel Beat.

[mjothi]

Originally Posted by anu21v

But in this case GM has announced this is a newly developed engine in their bangalore engineering centre, which gives me real worry as far as cost goes

Its the same MJD of Fiat. The effort they made here would be for the removal of one cylinder to make it < 1000cc.

So, comparatively less work.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by mjothi

Its the same MJD of Fiat. The effort they made here would be for the removal of one cylinder to make it < 1000cc.

So, comparatively less work.

Well Engineers can answer that question, But i would guess Even that removal of one cylinder will run into cost of almost a new engine. Dont think thats an Easy job.

Modifications are easier when you do it on car... not so easy when you do it on engine . My logic is if that one cyclinder removal was such a cost effective option, Maruti would have done it years ago and I would be seeing, All Marutis (Alto, Estilo, WagonR and A-star) with diesel Engines. Afterall Maruti has been selling this MJD engine cars for more than 5 years now.

[designersf]

Originally Posted by anu21v

Well Engineers can answer that question, But i would guess Even that removal of one cylinder will run into cost of almost a new engine. Dont think thats an Easy job.

Modifications are easier when you do it on car... not so easy when you do it on engine . My logic is if that one cyclinder removal was such a cost effective option, Maruti would have done it years ago and I would be seeing, All Marutis (Alto, Estilo, WagonR and A-star) with diesel Engines. Afterall Maruti has been selling this MJD engine cars for more than 5 years now.

Fiat does not make a 3-cylinder Multijet. Maruti buys only the 4-cyl 1.3L version which is already available. They don't have the licence to modify it but merely produce it. Maruti pays a royalty fee/cost for every engine they produce. However, GM has the rights because it owned some % of Fiat when this engine was being developed.

Maruti started using the Multijet in early 2007. So that's around four years.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by designersf

Fiat does not make a 3-cylinder Multijet. Maruti buys only the 4-cyl 1.3L version which is already available. They don't have the licence to modify it but merely produce it. Maruti pays a royalty fee/cost for every engine they produce. However, GM has the rights because it owned some % of Fiat when this engine was being developed.

Maruti started using the Multijet in early 2007. So that's around four years.

My logic remains the same, If developing a 3 cylinder from 4 Cylinder is so low cost, Maruti would have paid engineering fees to Fiat and Fiat engineers would have done it gleefully for Suzuki. It is not a so low cost affair to my understanding. In anycase there is already a discussion on the same topic earlier in this thread. Refer that please

[designersf]

Originally Posted by anu21v

My logic remains the same, If developing a 3 cylinder from 4 Cylinder is so low cost, Maruti would have paid engineering fees to Fiat and Fiat engineers would have done it gleefully for Suzuki. It is not a so low cost affair to my understanding. In anycase there is already a discussion on the same topic earlier in this thread. Refer that please

I understand that but I see two reasons for this

1 - Doesnt make sense for Fiat to develop a variant of their engine just for one manufacturer. Wouldn't justify the costs. Moreover, Suzuki will need to pay hell a lot for every engine (and the development). Moreover, this will also cannibalise their petrol engines which fetch them good profits.

2 - Re-designing an engine will cost quite a bit of money but GM have done it. If they have enough models that will use this engine (maybe SAIC's vans could share them), the investment would be spread over all these models making it cheaper compared to using it on just a single model. I believe this should be GM's plan and 10-15% is quite a bit of money. If Maruti can charge about 74k over their petrol version, then GM charging around 35-45k more makes sense. Make a note that Maruti is paying a fee for every engine used!

Reference Prices Metallic non-Metallic

MARUTI SWIFT LDI BS IV 498341.47
MARUTI SWIFT LXI (BHARAT STAGE IV) 424127.46

** These are Ex-Showroom Chennai (Indicative) Prices only and are subject to change according to company policy and/or due to any change in applicable taxes. Exact price details may be collected from any of our authorized dealers in your area.

[shineshine]

Originally Posted by anu21v

My logic remains the same, If developing a 3 cylinder from 4 Cylinder is so low cost, Maruti would have paid engineering fees to Fiat and Fiat engineers would have done it gleefully for Suzuki. It is not a so low cost affair to my understanding. In anycase there is already a discussion on the same topic earlier in this thread. Refer that please

The decision of GM to go for a 3-cylinder is not exactly due to the low cost factor but only for the Fuel efficiency factor.

But I could foresee another important factor, with the current fuel prices sky rocketing and the difference between the petrol and diesel being nearly 25/- now, I think the govt will have to do something to prevent the entire car sales shift to diesel since diesel is subsidized by govt. So I think the govt may introduce one more tax slab for cars up to 1000cc and impose higher tax to diesel cars above 1000cc and even higher tax above 1200cc (this is my opinion)

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by anu21v

Moreso some of the diesels miss out the top features in top variants like Airbag, ABS and Alloys. (Sample this no i20 Asta Option on diesel, No Ritz ZXI diesel, No Swift ZXI diesel).In fact I dont remember any diesel HB with auto gearbox. I am just hoping the GM guys dont dish out this step brotherly treatment to their Diesel Beat.

Very right. Manufacturers tend to under-equip diesels. If GM wants to make a mark, it should refrain from indulging in under-featuring Beat D the way MUL has under-featured Swift D. And as for an AT Diesel hatch, I even started a thread a few years back, whcih went cold after a few posts. There is not even an iota of news anywhere that we may see some automatic diesel hatch in near future. Considering the glacial pace at which most of the auto industry moves ( I mean the time they take to make a car from the time they announce ), I am sure we will not see one for at least another 5 years.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by designersf

I understand that but I see two reasons for this

1 -
2 -
3-

Well, I dont think its possible. Just that economics doesnt fit it in. I see a minimum launch price at close to or above Figo Diesel that is if they launch a PS variant of it. If like Micra or I20 they launch a higher variant, it might as well go above.

[mjothi]

Ok, can anyone guess how big is the China market for Beat? Can they export those engines there? Will it not change the equation of cost / value completely different?

I would guess, this 3 cylinder would be export / used in this region by GM.

Just my opinion.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by mjothi

Ok, can anyone guess how big is the China market for Beat? Can they export those engines there? Will it not change the equation of cost / value completely different?

I would guess, this 3 cylinder would be export / used in this region by GM.

Just my opinion.

China is a predominantly Petrol Cars market. Diesel Cars are not as popular as in India. So this 3 cylinder diesel is meant for India primarily. This can help GM improve the sales of the Beat, position the Beat Diesel as the most frugal car in India.