[vb-saan]

It is said that we Indians like to travel with families. And people movers like Innova are in great demand. But looking around, we don’t have many MPVs to choose from. Our selection is limited to something like the Innova, Xylo and maybe the Aria.

All the major players in India have their range of MPVs in the global market. Some of the examples I can think of are the Volkswagen Touran, Toyota Wish, Picnic, Honda Odyssey, Stream, Freed, Ford S-Max, Galaxy, Mitsubishi Grandis etc.

What could be the reason for this? Is it because there is not enough market for MPVs? Or these wagons are too big for our roads?

Some discussion around this topic will be great

[avisidhu]

There are a lot of respected Team-BHPians who will give an accurate analysis of this, but one reason that comes to my mind is that we don't have the culture of going out during weekends for camping trips etc. Any such excursions mean the whole family will travel together along with the necessary equipment, thereby creating a utility of MPVs.

Nevertheless, don't you feel that the Innova has been a trend setter of sorts, in the sense that now more and more families are buying this vehicle, and not just the taxi segment? Or it could be that the market for an MPV already existed, but prior to Innova no vehicle provided the necessary reliability, ease of maintenance and ride quality.

Note to Mods: Perhaps this thread can be merged in case it already exists.

[VW2010]

hat could be the reason for this? Is it because there is not enough market for MPVs? Or these wagons are too big for our roads?

Its just the cost of these vehicles. The loan rates/interest rates are far higher compared to other countries.

VW SUV costs close to 65L. The only reason we see so many scorpio(used as MPV) is because of the pricing. Had M&M priced the scorpio at 20L the story would be different.

Its a maturing market though, so few years down the line we will start seeing more MPV's

[selfdrive]

At some point, it could be due to the usage of these MPVs. While I would like to own a MPV, it isnt very convenient to drive around in the city b2b traffic. As I cannot afford more than one car, I would prefer to go in for a city car that is OK for occasional highway runs.
Moreover, many families are 3 or 4 people, the bigger MPVs therefore seem to be a bit too big (Innova) or too differently feature rich (scorpio) for normal pockets. I can give my example and say that I would prefer to have a MPV with airbags and ABS and can do without bells and whistles like rain sensory wipers etc. In effect, I have to pay for something I dont use or could do without using.
There will be substantial demand for a mid range MPV that offers basic safety features and is not heavy on the pocket. I hope the Xylo CS will address these concerns.
the premium hatchback market was similarly untapped and now that they sell like hot cakes everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon. if the xylo CS works, then I hope the other manufacturers wake up to the potential this segment has.

[avishar]

Actually there is a very good market in India for MPVs.Its just that there is very little choice in the Indian market.Why else does the Maruti Eeco or Toyota Innova sell so much?Because they have very little competition.

India is actually quite a natural market for MPVs,because of the culture of joint families,people with small business who might require the extra space,tour operators are all prospective customers.

But most of the manufacturers who have best selling MPVs abroad cannot get that pricing correct in India.MPVs typically are not looked upon as luxury cars,its a segent were luxury is not really desired.Anything above 10l is not viable here.Innova was a hit because toyota specifically made that MPV on a shared platform for developing countries.An Odyssey will cost a lot more here in India.

Think of a Medium sized MPV bigger than a Eeco and smaller than a Innova,with modern design,and sensible amount of features for its segment,good interior space,decent engine and reliability at a price point of 5-6l and watch the Indian customers lap it up.

[mdsaab]

Actually i think india is a great market for mpvs.
But one thing to take note of here is abroad most of these mpvs are petrols i believe. And here in india people prefer their mpvs to be diesels. So while a lot of the big brands like honda, mitsubishi etc have a mpvs in their global lineup, they are a bit skeptical to launch a petrol mpv in india. Also the volumes of such vehicles are not that huge so setting up ckd operations for them would not be feasible. This would keep costs high and the mpv would end up being overpriced. And thats why when it comes to mpvs in india we have only the innova, xylo and aria to choose from. So basically there is only one foreign brand retailing a mpv in india. Pretty brave move by toyota. Way to go.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by avisidhu

Nevertheless, don't you feel that the Innova has been a trend setter of sorts, in the sense that now more and more families are buying this vehicle, and not just the taxi segment? Or it could be that the market for an MPV already existed, but prior to Innova no vehicle provided the necessary reliability, ease of maintenance and ride quality.

Yes, Looking how successful Innova has been in the market, what puzzles me is why other manufacturers are not following the path.

Originally Posted by VW2010

Its just the cost of these vehicles. The loan rates/interest rates are far higher compared to other countries.

VW SUV costs close to 65L. The only reason we see so many scorpio(used as MPV) is because of the pricing. Had M&M priced the scorpio at 20L the story would be different.

Its a maturing market though, so few years down the line we will start seeing more MPV's

I don't think cost will be huge issue. The VW SUV could be costing 65 lakhs (and its a 5-seater), but they have MPVs in their stable which cost 1/3 of Toureg's price.

And here, I am not bringing vehicles like Toureg, Q7, Safari or Scorpio into the equations. Those are SUVs, and here my point is aligned to people movers in the lines of Innova.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Moreover, many families are 3 or 4 people, the bigger MPVs therefore seem to be a bit too big (Innova) or too differently feature rich (scorpio) for normal pockets. I can give my example and say that I would prefer to have a MPV with airbags and ABS and can do without bells and whistles like rain sensory wipers etc. In effect, I have to pay for something I dont use or could do without using.

Originally Posted by avishar

Actually there is a very good market in India for MPVs.Its just that there is very little choice in the Indian market.Why else does the Maruti Eeco or Toyota Innova sell so much?Because they have very little competition.

India is actually quite a natural market for MPVs,because of the culture of joint families,people with small business who might require the extra space,tour operators are all prospective customers.

But most of the manufacturers who have best selling MPVs abroad cannot get that pricing correct in India.MPVs typically are not looked upon as luxury cars,its a segent were luxury is not really desired.Anything above 10l is not viable here.Innova was a hit because toyota specifically made that MPV on a shared platform for developing countries.An Odyssey will cost a lot more here in India.

Think of a Medium sized MPV bigger than a Eeco and smaller than a Innova,with modern design,and sensible amount of features for its segment,good interior space,decent engine and reliability at a price point of 5-6l and watch the Indian customers lap it up.

Yes, exactly my point. If Innova can be successul in that price range, other models too can work. Cars which can offer similar features and safety options will definitely work in India.

And yes, completely agree MPVs are not considered as luxury, unless it is a Merc R

Originally Posted by mdsaab

Actually i think india is a great market for mpvs.
But one thing to take note of here is abroad most of these mpvs are petrols i believe. And here in india people prefer their mpvs to be diesels. So while a lot of the big brands like honda, mitsubishi etc have a mpvs in their global lineup, they are a bit skeptical to launch a petrol mpv in india. Also the volumes of such vehicles are not that huge so setting up ckd operations for them would not be feasible. This would keep costs high and the mpv would end up being overpriced. And thats why when it comes to mpvs in india we have only the innova, xylo and aria to choose from. So basically there is only one foreign brand retailing a mpv in india. Pretty brave move by toyota. Way to go.

Thats a very good point - especially on Honda and Mitsubishi, and thats where Toyota did very well by giving us good diesels. But I am sure that other continental manufacturers like Ford, VW have enough diesel options with them.

[//M]

Many people who travel with family frequently tend to buy SUVs like Scorpio, Safari, Endeavour instead, as the choice for MPVs is limited. This doesn't means there isn't a market. The Merc R350 with a petrol motor and a 70 lakh price tag is selling well according to its standards. So why not a Toyota Picnic, Mitsubishi Grandis at 1/5th the price. IMO manufacturers have not yet analysed the possibilities of the MPV market in India but going by the success of the Innova (in the taxi market as well as among private buyers), its time we see more MPVs heading our way. For the time being, all praises for Toyota for kickstarting the segment.

[John]

I feel there is a good market for compact MPV's. If the Toyota Avanza is launched, I'm sure it will do well. In fact this platform can also be used for a smaller SUV like the Toyota Rush which is based on the Avanza platform. These could be powered by the Diesel engine from the Etios.

[mdsaab]

Am looking forward to the avanza launch. Will be priced under the innova and probably have 7 seats. With the more compact dimensions am sure many would opt for it. Especially those who only want one car. Driving the innova in city traffic can definately be a pain. If they launch a compact suv based on the avanza platform the line is only going to get bigger outside toyota showrooms.

Originally Posted by John

I feel there is a good market for compact MPV's. If the Toyota Avanza is launched, I'm sure it will do well. In fact this platform can also be used for a smaller SUV like the Toyota Rush which is based on the Avanza platform. These could be powered by the Diesel engine from the Etios.

[John]

In Malaysia the Avanza is about 1.5 times and the Rush about 1.2 times cheaper than the Innova. Similiar pricing would be great here too.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by John

I feel there is a good market for compact MPV's. If the Toyota Avanza is launched, I'm sure it will do well.

Originally Posted by mdsaab

Am looking forward to the avanza launch. Will be priced under the innova and probably have 7 seats. With the more compact dimensions am sure many would opt for it.

Originally Posted by John

In Malaysia the Avanza is about 1.5 times and the Rush about 1.2 times cheaper than the Innova. Similiar pricing would be great here too.

Avanza is a compact MPV (compared to Innova) and offers seating for 7. But bringing in Avanza may impact the Innova sales. I guess Toyota is doing pretty well in the MPV market with Innova (I will say, the undisputed leader)

Some of the new age MPVs does not have the baggage of bulky dimensions. For e.g.; VW Touran is built on the Golf platform, Honda Freed is derived from Jazz, and Honda Stream follows Civic’s dimensions. In fact, the Freed, which is built in Indonesia for the SE Asia market is something of a space management wonder.

What I would love to see on Indian roads is the Ford S-Max. If I am right, it’s the first model in Ford’s lineup to have the new kinetic design styling. It looks compact, have the fun to drive aspect, and quite a handsome number, and they’ve some good TDCi options to power the car.

[sindabad.sailor]

Is it also not true that the taxi segment has more MPVs (people movers) than sedans barring Indica. Every other taxi I see is Innova / Tavera / Sumo.

I think in India it is pretty easy and economical to hire a bigger vehicle for joint famly tours and own a CAR for self driven journey.

Coming Sunday I am going for Konkan trip with f14 family members. Tempo traveller is available at Rs10 per km and Innova for 10 with AC. If I can find vehicles on rent that too CHAUFFER DRIVEN so cheap, why bother buying a bIIIg vehicles and make life difficult in city drive.

[avisidhu]

Another point I would like to make is that there is a significant difference between the expectations for an MPV between the Urban and the Rural market. And if you think about it, this segment sees a significant buying contribution from the rural folks (unlike say, sedans). Case in point being the Scorpio and Bolero (and a couple of others). Not strictly MPV's, but you can understand what I'm trying to get at.

Would be interesting to see if the manufacturers would be able to (or would want to) bridge this gap and address both segments or not.

[veyron_head]

I guess, Indian market is still averse to doing long drives on weekends. While most do not use public transport inside the city, the behavior is exactly the opposite when they want to travel long distances. People still prefer traveling by Train/Bus/Flight as opposed to going on a long drive, for safety reasons or to avoid fatigue. (That i beg to differ buses are safe is another story altogether)

Moreover, MPVs neither offer the ease of Hatch/sedans, nor the image of a SUV. It only makes sense for people who travel extensively with family and also prefer to drive their
own car.