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Old 22nd June 2011, 09:51   #151
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Default Re: Car highly expensive to run!

^^It will be a good option so long as you don't mind a slight drop in power and install a good branded kit. My colleague has a 16 year old Esteem fitted with Lovato gas kit and loves it. Makes a Chennai - B'lore trip by it almost every month and recently visited Ooty as well. Says there are absolutely no issues.

Kits are different for carbureted and fuel injected cars. For the former, there need not be even a single drop of petrol in the tank but for the latter, there should be some. Because the start-up and shut down is done in petrol, the switch to LPG happens automatically after a few KM.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 09:53   #152
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Originally Posted by Equus View Post
Probably offtopic - is there a nice writeup on the cons of LPG?

Understand the challenges on the availability aspects, but CNG is not an option in BLR. So folks who are stuck with petrol guzzlers are seriously considering LPG kits.

I have a 10 yr old Santro that runs about 40 kms per day. Should I consider moving to LPG now? Or rather look for a new/used LPG/Diesel instead?
Appreciate the suggestions..

I'm wondering why you haven't converted already. If you already have a car, then LPG Vs. diesel - LPG wins hands down.

there are plenty of threads on LPG/CNG - you can start with this http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modify...mparision.html
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:19   #153
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
^^I did speak to them once about the comfort factor, as both of them are hefty guys. But they were not bothered - the way they see it, they spend only half the money for fuel, and their rides, tyres etc will last twice as long! And that makes them feel good, so why not?
I remember my father and his friend used to go 1day in my dad's Rajdoot and 1 day in his friend's bike. Rest of the 4 days in cycle. This was in 80's and the company works strictly on timing. But even now he used to go in cycle and public transport when we have car. Old habits die hard.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:23   #154
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Default Re: Car highly expensive to run!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus View Post
Probably offtopic - is there a nice writeup on the cons of LPG?

Understand the challenges on the availability aspects, but CNG is not an option in BLR. So folks who are stuck with petrol guzzlers are seriously considering LPG kits.

I have a 10 yr old Santro that runs about 40 kms per day. Should I consider moving to LPG now? Or rather look for a new/used LPG/Diesel instead?
Appreciate the suggestions..
all depends on how much longer you plan to keep the car.
The kit does pay for itself, but over a period of time, where the savings on fuel addup and negate the initial outlay.
based on running it could recover the cost in 1 year or 4, or whatever(i am too lazy to do the math.i'm sure youd have done it by now..)
its already a 10 year old car.
say it takes 4 years to recover the cost(assume).
would you be keeping the car anyway for 4 years even if LPG wasnt installed?
if not, then would you be forced to keep it to recover costs if lpg is installed?
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:26   #155
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Default Re: Car highly expensive to run!

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
all depends on how much longer you plan to keep the car.
The kit does pay for itself, but over a period of time, where the savings on fuel addup and negate the initial outlay.
based on running it could recover the cost in 1 year or 4, or whatever(i am too lazy to do the math.i'm sure youd have done it by now..)
its already a 10 year old car.
say it takes 4 years to recover the cost(assume).
would you be keeping the car anyway for 4 years even if LPG wasnt installed?
if not, the would you be forced to keep it to recover costs if lpg is installed?

Kit will cost him less than 40k. Even a cheap kit will save him at least Rs. 4/km (given petrol prices these days)- with 40km/day that he is claiming that is over Rs. 150/day - It'll take all of 300days to recover the investment including interest, break even without interest is within 8 months, and if you keep in mind the fact that if he does decide to discard the car he'll probably get better resale (at least 20k more) - the recovery period reduces to 4 months.

This is a conservative computation - a more thorough calculation will probably reduce the recovery period even further.

Last edited by vina : 22nd June 2011 at 10:29.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:55   #156
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Default Re: Car highly expensive to run!

Now that you have already got the car, Dont spend more by buying kits and installing, which will no where reduce your burden. Enjoy your ride, dont worry too much about money, the more you start worry the more sooner you will get older and loose your charm in this age. Try taking bus for 2 or 3 months, you would have saved few bucks and then travel next 6 months by car. You will earn money in future, but you cannot earn this time thats gone, Enjoy your BEAT with a smile .
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Old 22nd June 2011, 11:22   #157
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..May be, Which car would you suggest purely on fuel cost and maintenance part between a BEAT Petrol, BEAT LPG & BEAT diesel (assuming beat diesel costs approx. 20K more than lpg and returns a mileage of 20KMPL at least). Am not much bothered about performance and comfort, as I (My Wife) am almost decided with BEAT. My average KMS per month would be 1000 KMS per month (60% on highway).

Beat Petrol: Aprrox. 4,25,000 (OTR after disc)
Beat Petrol Mileage: 15KMPL in City

Beat LPG LS version: Approx. 4,60,000 (OTR after disc)
Beat LPG Mileage: approx. 13kmpl in city

Beat Diesel LS: To be around 4,70,000 (OTR) Not sure thou'
Expected mileage: 16 to 20 KMPL (claimed by many sites)

Thanks

Last edited by prasana_19 : 22nd June 2011 at 11:51. Reason: Addition
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Old 22nd June 2011, 12:05   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prasana_19 View Post
..May be, Which car would you suggest purely on fuel cost and maintenance part between a BEAT Petrol, BEAT LPG & BEAT diesel (assuming beat diesel costs approx. 20K more than lpg and returns a mileage of 20KMPL at least). Am not much bothered about performance and comfort, as I (My Wife) am almost decided with BEAT. My average KMS per month would be 1000 KMS per month (60% on highway).

Beat Petrol: Aprrox. 4,25,000 (OTR after disc)
Beat Petrol Mileage: 15KMPL in City

Beat LPG LS version: Approx. 4,60,000 (OTR after disc)
Beat LPG Mileage: approx. 13kmpl in city

Beat Diesel LS: To be around 4,70,000 (OTR) Not sure thou'
Expected mileage: 16 to 20 KMPL (claimed by many sites)

Thanks

Beat diesel is not here, and I think you are low-balling the price very heavily - OTR should be at least 20k more than what you have quoted. the diesel engine itself is about 50k-70k more expensive, and then you have to add road tax and insurance.

I'll go for Beat LPG if I'm living in a town where LPG filling is not a problem, and chuck the diesel.


Reason -
  1. diesels have their own problems (e.g. diesel clatter - I thought that wouldn't be a problem but even with excellent sound insulation of Figo it is a problem), the OTR price of diesel vs. petrol (for otherwise same feature set) is different by at least 80k, and to recover it takes time even with today's difference in prices
  2. LPG is effectively dual-fuel. So in city (where most of your travel will happen) it is LPG - lower cost than even diesel - and if you do travel outside it'll be petrol - no fuel problems anywhere.
  3. Petrol Beat has a good amount of power, and if it had more space (both rear and boot) I would have bought it instead of the Figo (where one of the reasons we went for diesel was the relatively crappy petrol engine) - if you do go out of town - that is more fun than diesel (more expensive too, but who cares once in a while).
  4. Overall it'll be cheaper than diesel unless you are doing taxi kind of annual mileage.
EDIT: sorry I missed the 1000km/month with 60% on highway part - in that case you need to see whether you'll be able to get enough refills of LPG to keep you going. If that is not a problem, my advice above stands. Otherwise for cost reasons diesel it is.

If your wife is forcing you to buy a Beat - you two can TD a Micra diesel as well. Excellent petrol-like engine, very good mileage, ride and handling similar to Beat, quality of stuff better than Beat and many women love the looks + it is available here and now.

Last edited by vina : 22nd June 2011 at 12:11.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 12:05   #159
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Default Re: Car highly expensive to run!

Quote:
Originally Posted by prasana_19 View Post
..May be, Which car would you suggest purely on fuel cost and maintenance part between a BEAT Petrol, BEAT LPG & BEAT diesel (assuming beat diesel costs approx. 20K more than lpg and returns a mileage of 20KMPL at least). Am not much bothered about performance and comfort, as I (My Wife) am almost decided with BEAT. My average KMS per month would be 1000 KMS per month (60% on highway).

Beat Petrol: Aprrox. 4,25,000 (OTR after disc)
Beat Petrol Mileage: 15KMPL in City

Beat LPG LS version: Approx. 4,60,000 (OTR after disc)
Beat LPG Mileage: approx. 13kmpl in city

Beat Diesel LS: To be around 4,70,000 (OTR) Not sure thou'
Expected mileage: 16 to 20 KMPL (claimed by many sites)

Thanks

BEAT DIESEL ANYDAY! I am not big fan of LPG cars. Well, the price is still linked to petrol price as it is a by product of refinement. Also, there is mileage drop as compared to petrol. I haven't even started talking about power drop as yet.

LPG in Bangy costs some 40/- Mileage = 10 kpl. Rs4/km.
Petrol in Bnagy 70/- Mileage =12 kpl. Rs 6/km.

You spend money on LPG kit too. In case of factory fitted, higher cost of purchase.


CNG is different breed altogether. Because the savings are HUGE. It costs almost Rs 1.5/km to run a car on CNG. Also, it is found readily in India so the price rise is never expected to be as steep.

however, best is diesel. Fill it, shut it, forget it. rs 2.5-3 /km running cost but it is available everywhere.

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 22nd June 2011 at 12:07.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 12:19   #160
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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
BEAT DIESEL ANYDAY! I am not big fan of LPG cars. Well, the price is still linked to petrol price as it is a by product of refinement. Also, there is mileage drop as compared to petrol. I haven't even started talking about power drop as yet.

LPG in Bangy costs some 40/- Mileage = 10 kpl. Rs4/km.
Petrol in Bnagy 70/- Mileage =12 kpl. Rs 6/km.

You spend money on LPG kit too. In case of factory fitted, higher cost of purchase.


CNG is different breed altogether. Because the savings are HUGE. It costs almost Rs 1.5/km to run a car on CNG. Also, it is found readily in India so the price rise is never expected to be as steep.

however, best is diesel. Fill it, shut it, forget it. rs 2.5-3 /km running cost but it is available everywhere.

Beat LPG is factory fitted - power is actually slightly more than petrol (this is LPG, not CNG), and FE will be similar to petrol. He'll save close to Rs.2.5/km - diesel will not save him much more (prices are about to increase) but will cost him a lot more upfront and later in insurance - and diesel will almost certainly be less powerful too.

Only thing is he will have to get a fill of LPG three times a month to do LPG-only driving. With diesel with his usage it will be slightly more often than once a month. Also LPG availability outside city will be a problem.

Last edited by vina : 22nd June 2011 at 12:23.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 12:38   #161
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Originally Posted by krish82 View Post
Try taking bus for 2 or 3 months, you would have saved few bucks and then travel next 6 months by car. You will earn money in future, but you cannot earn this time thats gone, Enjoy your BEAT with a smile .
Exactly this is what I am doing. During rainy season, I will go in my company bus so as to save my car. During sunny times, will take the car out, thereby balancing the usage of car & expenses.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 12:44   #162
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Probably off-topic - but with petrol prices going through the roof and diesel prices scheduled to go up (god knows when though), isnt it about time CNG got a major push? Currently AFAIK CNG is limited to Delhi and some other metros only.

Why can't the govt/oil companies popularize CNG a lot more than they currently do? If a few CNG pumps can be set up in major cities, I'm sure people would flock to the pumps, given the cost advantage.

Everyone knows the advantages of CNG, but listing down the major ones
1) Cost advantage (well known) - very low running cost - even lower than diesel
2) Easy availability (as far as I know)
3) Not linked to global oil prices - India supposedly has enough reserves of CNG.
4) Reduce losses to govt through diesel subsidy (subsidized diesel being increasingly consumed by private car owners).

With all this I'm wondering why CNG is not popular in India yet. In neighbouring Pakistan, I believe most vehicles run on CNG and very less on petrol.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 13:01   #163
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Originally Posted by vina View Post
Beat LPG is factory fitted - power is actually slightly more than petrol (this is LPG, not CNG), and FE will be similar to petrol. He'll save close to Rs.2.5/km - diesel will not save him much more (prices are about to increase) but will cost him a lot more upfront and later in insurance - and diesel will almost certainly be less powerful too.

Only thing is he will have to get a fill of LPG three times a month to do LPG-only driving. With diesel with his usage it will be slightly more often than once a month. Also LPG availability outside city will be a problem.
No LPG till date gives higher power than its respective petrol engine. Its a derivative of the petrol engine. However, with sequential injection, the power drop is much less distinguishable now. My only grouse with LPG is, that the savings made are not really very big. So, why not have fun driving petrol car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar@v1nd View Post
Probably off-topic - but with petrol prices going through the roof and diesel prices scheduled to go up (god knows when though), isnt it about time CNG got a major push? Currently AFAIK CNG is limited to Delhi and some other metros only.

Why can't the govt/oil companies popularize CNG a lot more than they currently do? If a few CNG pumps can be set up in major cities, I'm sure people would flock to the pumps, given the cost advantage.

Everyone knows the advantages of CNG, but listing down the major ones
1) Cost advantage (well known) - very low running cost - even lower than diesel
2) Easy availability (as far as I know)
3) Not linked to global oil prices - India supposedly has enough reserves of CNG.
4) Reduce losses to govt through diesel subsidy (subsidized diesel being increasingly consumed by private car owners).

With all this I'm wondering why CNG is not popular in India yet. In neighbouring Pakistan, I believe most vehicles run on CNG and very less on petrol.
Well, I am shocked. The govt is sleeping on its butt! BTW, if CNG were to come in Bangalore, there will be no space to even walk. In Delhi, people still tend to have petrol cars (simply BIG moolahs coz of the city being a primarily business oriented city). With the price of petrol where it is in Bangy, I don't know of many people who wouldn't like to covert.

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 22nd June 2011 at 13:07.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 13:28   #164
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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
No LPG till date gives higher power than its respective petrol engine. Its a derivative of the petrol engine. However, with sequential injection, the power drop is much less distinguishable now. My only grouse with LPG is, that the savings made are not really very big. So, why not have fun driving petrol car.

From what I read in news releases for LPG and petrol, 79.5BHP for petrol vs. 80.1BHP for LPG. Here's a thread on conversion in general http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modify...mparision.html


Savings are big enough to rival diesel, hassle (lost boot space, more weight , higher temperature damaging valves) are more with CNG.

Once you take into account higher installation costs for CNG (and reduced range with CNG means you will be running on petrol more often), things work out.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 14:37   #165
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Somewhat I feel a Petrol car is better than a LPG car for <1000Kms or lesser, as I dont feel any economic sense, especially when we go for a loan, reasons for the same are;

At least 30K more than petrol version
Hence, more emi and interest
Mileage drop when we compare with petrol by at least 3 to 4 kms per litre
Not sure about the prices in the future
Comparatively high maintenance costs
Less space due to lpg tank etc.,

What say people? Am not considering any performance w.r.t power etc., here..
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