[asr245]

Originally Posted by pacman2881

It looks to be 25% on current charges and hence it won't have major impact. Found this in ET-


Link- Delhi Budget: Diesel vehicles to cost more, free healthcare for 27L kids - The Economic Times

This decision seems to be by the Delhi government. The one I posted earlier seems to be by the central government. Are they referring to the same thing or 2 different things?

Originally Posted by download2live

Makes me smile. Here in Bangalore we pay around 14% Road tax.
Now who is getting penalized Sir?

Originally Posted by @Chaand

To each their own. Mumbai has this concept of Octroi. ALL cars registered in Mumbai city/suburbs have to pay octroi. For some strange reason, Octroi is applicable only for Mumbai and no other city in the country.

Road taxation comes under state government not Central. My issue is why is Centre differentiating between Delhi & rest of India. If this increase has been brought by the (Delhi) state government, then I have no issues.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

We need an Uniform Tax policy on all vehicles/ products in this country.
We cannot be having this differential tax system across different states.
The same logic applies to Fuel and its surcharges etc.

Such taxation (the one we have) exists in most (large) countries I think. I know for sure that in US, you have federal tax and then state tax deducted at source on your income. Then they also have city tax or some metropolitan area tax depending on where you live. That more or less becomes what we have. Though I do not know about the details.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Personally I welcome this move - it is about time the residents of Union Territories were taxed in the same way as the remaining states.

+1
Maybe this outdated law was formulated when agriculture was the only souce of income for individuals and these land depreived small territories were given these subsidies.
But today the scenario is completly different.

[hemanth.anand]

for me this is a good news.
This will ensure that the subsidy is helpful only to the group of people whom it was intended to in the first place-Mainly the agricultural community.
I would like this to be extended all over the country.
Has the government circulation already come out?

[ACM]

1) This has nothing to do with going green. As mentioned by Sgiitk better roads and mas transit systems coupled with lesser bottlenecks is greener.

2) This will be on the existing Registration Charges the Ex-Showoom cost will remain the same. This will only net some more money for the State Govt. On an overall cost terms the cost of the car will not change too much.

3) As Shankar.B says one country one price policy is what we actually need to move to. It will also reduce corruption in octroi dept etc. Wonder how Mitsubishi (one country one price) will handle this.

4) @chaand Thane city has great octroic than Mumbai. Mumbai is not the only place. (And for those who don't know Thane is a seperate City unlike say New Mumbai - both of which fall in Thane district.)

5) Bangalore rates of 14% did not bring down the sales of vehicle or the no of cars in Bang, so we should not expect any real impact in Delhi either.

[Abhi_Automobile]

The funda to get around is very simple: Buy and register the car in Gurgaon, where it is still the same. Although, the road tax increased in Gurgaon too (but that's off topic). I did the same (and got my car registered in Ggn) and paid 1.5% tax on my Swift, even though I used to live in Delhi then.

People here in Delhi are increasingly moving towards the American concept of, the number of cars in a household should be equal (if not more) to the number of occupants.

Unfortunately this is true. It's a cultural thing I guess. Punjabis have traditionally believed MORE IS BETTER and now thats a prevalent part of city culture. When I migrate back, we are also planning to have 3-4 (add 2 more cars)cars for 5 family members.

[CrackedHead]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

for me this is a good news.
This will ensure that the subsidy is helpful only to the group of people whom it was intended to in the first place-Mainly the agricultural community.
I would like this to be extended all over the country.
Has the government circulation already come out?

This will not help - people will just buy their cars elsewhere. Those who live on the fringes already buy their diesel outside Delhi since its cheaper outside.

The only thing that can help deliver subsidy's to the actual people they are intended for is "Aadhaar" - the UID number. Once its in place, subsidies will be sent directly into the intended recipient's bank account - and market prices will be deregulated. Diesel prices will rise - its just a question of getting the UID structure into place.

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by @Chaand

To each their own. Mumbai has this concept of Octroi. ALL cars registered in Mumbai city/suburbs have to pay octroi. For some strange reason, Octroi is applicable only for Mumbai and no other city in the country.

Sirji, You are not the only one. We also pay octroi here in Pune. Not only for cars but all the items :(

If not mistaken, octroi is available in only 3 states in India right now. Its 3% here in Pune for most items. Varies for some items like food, commodities etc. Liquor has the most % of octroi. Thats why it costs more here. Even petrol is costly here due to octroi

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by CrackedHead

This will not help - people will just buy their cars elsewhere. Those who live on the fringes already buy their diesel outside Delhi since its cheaper outside.

, that's why i would want this thing to be extended all over the country.

Originally Posted by CrackedHead

The only thing that can help deliver subsidy's to the actual people they are intended for is "Aadhaar" - the UID number. Once its in place, subsidies will be sent directly into the intended recipient's bank account - and market prices will be deregulated. Diesel prices will rise - its just a question of getting the UID structure into place.

OT but my Income tax refunds from 2008 have still not reached my account, the PAN system being fairly managed
Money matters that are settled while buying the vehicle is the best way in our country IMO

[sgiitk]

@ACM: Now that the CWG is over maybe they need something else to scam on. I am sure this will not help reduce the subsidies to the most subsidized place in India one tiny bit.

[JJames]

This move to impose an additional tax on Diesel cars is most welcoming and in my view, one of the more sensible taxation in recent times (stark contrast to the now cancelled plans of hospitalization tax). Diesel, the more polluting of fuels, is subsidized in India with an objective towards 'essential' services & requirements mainly at the agricultural & goods transportation sectors. In a recent survey, it was found that a major chunk of Diesel fuel usage is taken up by private vehicles (including luxury cars). Clearly, the objective of the subsidy is defeated, with more & more public opting for Diesel engines (as exemplified by the recent surge in sales of Diesel cars such as Vento D vs Vento P/ ANHC). The Govt cannot directly increase the fuel price impacting these sectors because it would adversely impact inflation. The better option for the Government is to somehow recover the subsidy money from the people who do not deserve that subsidy in the first place. This means, adding an extra amount of tax on the cars that use this subsidized fuel! Simple & makes perfect sense .

On a personal note, if I am to buy a diesel car, I would much prefer paying this tax than carry the guilt of using up a state subsidy not intended for me.

[pacman2881]

Originally Posted by asr245

This decision seems to be by the Delhi government. The one I posted earlier seems to be by the central government. Are they referring to the same thing or 2 different things?

My bad I didn't notice the difference. Now I am confused if the two are some or different.

Originally Posted by JJames

This move to impose an additional tax on Diesel cars is most welcoming and in my view, one of the more sensible taxation in recent times (stark contrast to the now cancelled plans of hospitalization tax). Diesel, the more polluting of fuels, is subsidized in India with an objective towards 'essential' services & requirements mainly at the agricultural & goods transportation sectors. In a recent survey, it was found that a major chunk of Diesel fuel usage is taken up by private vehicles (including luxury cars). Clearly, the objective of the subsidy is defeated, with more & more public opting for Diesel engines (as exemplified by the recent surge in sales of Diesel cars such as Vento D vs Vento P/ ANHC). The Govt cannot directly increase the fuel price impacting these sectors because it would adversely impact inflation. The better option for the Government is to somehow recover the subsidy money from the people who do not deserve that subsidy in the first place. This means, adding an extra amount of tax on the cars that use this subsidized fuel! Simple & makes perfect sense .

On a personal note, if I am to buy a diesel car, I would much prefer paying this tax than carry the guilt of using up a state subsidy not intended for me.

I would agree to your post on the subsidy but not on the polution part which is highly debatable.

[Cesc]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

for me this is a good news.
This will ensure that the subsidy is helpful only to the group of people whom it was intended to in the first place-Mainly the agricultural community.

Agri community uses less than 5% of total diesel sold in India. And doing this will ensure nothing. This move will not make ANY difference to fuel dynamics. Most of the diesel sold in India is consumed by the transport (trucks, logistics) and commercial sector (ever seen those large gensets powering factories, malls and maybe your own office).

Originally Posted by JJames

On a personal note, if I am to buy a diesel car, I would much prefer paying this tax than carry the guilt of using up a state subsidy not intended for me.

Like it or not we end up using a lot of subsidies not meant for us or at least not needed by us. Reason being - the choice doesn't exist. LPG subsidy is a prime example - it should be for poor households only but people like us who earn six figure salaries a month buy LPG cylinders which are subsidized to the extent of 50%. The atta that you buy (or the one used in restaurants/dhabas/office cafeteria) is largely made from grains pilfered from the PDS (subsidized to the extend of 80%). The universities that we went to are subsidized to the extent of 90%. Can't we pay up full cost of tuition? We obviously can.

The only thing this move will do is add more money to government coffers. It is again a decision taken by the govt. Which is neither here nor there. It does not alter the ground situation in any way.

[SILVERWOOD]

Originally Posted by JJames

On a personal note, if I am to buy a diesel car, I would much prefer paying this tax than carry the guilt of using up a state subsidy not intended for me.

Originally Posted by Cesc

Like it or not we end up using a lot of subsidies not meant for us or at least not needed by us. Reason being - the choice doesn't exist. LPG subsidy is a prime example - it should be for poor households only but people like us who earn six figure salaries a month buy LPG cylinders which are subsidized to the extent of 50%.
The only thing this move will do is add more money to government coffers. It is again a decision taken by the govt. Which is neither here nor there. It does not alter the ground situation in any way.

+1 on this Cecs.

The other subsidized items includes petrol,medicines(listed under DPCO),Train travel (passenger travel is also subsidized) and many more.

[shankar.balan]

Yes Cesc. What you said is the truth.

LPG from Indane or HP or BP costs 360-370 per cylinder. By contrast the private gas companies charge Rs 900 -1000 per cylinder. How many of us have eschewed the government company gas connection in favour of the private ones? I for example have both but I tend to use/replace the government connection much more!

Same with Diesel subsidy. Everyone uses Diesel at a subsidized rate. Gensets at offices in power starved states like Karnataka, a few agri gen sets, agri machinery like tractors and tillers and so on, lorries, buses, mini cabs, mini vans, taxis, private cars etc. But the percentage of such private diesel vehicles in comparison to the universe of diesel users, is a miniscule one.

Other than private cars, I think even commercial vehicles like Taxis and Lorries etc which are powered by Diesel, should pay a higher tax.

Our so called PDS doesnt work at all properly. There is so much wastage of food grains owing to poor management and zero committment on the part of the bureaucrats that handle it.

But the bottomline is Accountability or the lack of it. In a nation which is rocked by scam after scam, it seems that we, the people are so innured to it that we dont even react any more.

The government can add this tax or change the price or do whatever it wants but where lies the all important point of Accountability for Public Money and Tax money? What does the Comptroller and Auditor General of Accounts do? Why is it that those huge teams of Auditors are not able to figure out whats happening to our money?

Or are we as a Nation so very apathetic that we simply couldn't be bothered to shift the system?

I think the answer lies partially in the last question. We are so busy seeking our own personal Nirvanas and trying to acquire as much as possible and secure a base for ourselves that we have become a nation of self serving individualists who are no longer bothered about the greater good for the greater number. Sad, but in my opinion, absolutely true.

Originally Posted by Cesc

Agri community uses less than 5% of total diesel sold in India. And doing this will ensure nothing. This move will not make ANY difference to fuel dynamics. Most of the diesel sold in India is consumed by the transport (trucks, logistics) and commercial sector (ever seen those large gensets powering factories, malls and maybe your own office).



Like it or not we end up using a lot of subsidies not meant for us or at least not needed by us. Reason being - the choice doesn't exist. LPG subsidy is a prime example - it should be for poor households only but people like us who earn six figure salaries a month buy LPG cylinders which are subsidized to the extent of 50%. The atta that you buy (or the one used in restaurants/dhabas/office cafeteria) is largely made from grains pilfered from the PDS (subsidized to the extend of 80%). The universities that we went to are subsidized to the extent of 90%. Can't we pay up full cost of tuition? We obviously can.

The only thing this move will do is add more money to government coffers. It is again a decision taken by the govt. Which is neither here nor there. It does not alter the ground situation in any way.

[Sunrise]

Originally Posted by asr245

Will duty cut in automobile kit cheer the sector? - CNBC-TV18 -

Move to the 2nd part of the article and it states



Now what's the logic in this? You introduce this tax in Delhi and people will start buying vehicles from elsewhere in NCR if that's not included. If it is then they will move further out. Only the dealers would suffer because of this. And what does this achieve anyway? Are they trying to offset the cost of diesel subsidy? Then why penalize Delhites alone? What about the rest of the country? Are they any less guilty than Delhites?

PS: Mods could you please correct the subject. It's for diesel vehicles only

Will this apply for those that the Ministers buy too? Surely people will find a way around this like you said, buy from other places.