[Klub Class]

Originally Posted by nurni76

....

http://www.autocarindia.com/news/tat...-maruti-recall...

nurni76, the above link is not accessible!

Please excuse me for the post.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by Klub Class

nurni76, the above link is not accessible!

Please excuse me for the post.

oops it worked for me. Just go to www.autocarindia.com and under latest news, you can find the link

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by nurni76

Don't think this is a problem with only DDis engine. From this article in AutocarIndia, looks like Fiat and Tata may also have to recall their cars.

http://www.autocarindia.com/news/tat...-maruti-recall

If this is true, then Kudos to Maruti for taking the first step.

And i thought the supplier was from India. The article says that the bolt was traced to an Italian supplier in which case the recall may not be limited to MSIL. Anyway lets wait and see if other manufacturers are also affected.

[@Chaand]

Originally Posted by nurni76

Don't think this is a problem with only DDis engine.

This issue has affected only Diesel engines as per the below article

http://www.autocarindia.com/news/mar...57-diesel-cars

[julupani]

The link has changed. Here is the one that I am getting.

http://www.autocarindia.com/news/mar...pact-tata-fiat

But, I think this is complete bogus speculative journalism, which does not seem to have any backing up at all. First of all, I doubt that a small part like a con-rod bolt for an engine which sells probably more than 10,000 a month has to be imported from Italy, especially to India which is one of the leading auto-ancillary manufacturers in the world. Also how logical is it to make a part as small as a bolt in Italy. Why incur a high shipping cost for a part that requires no high end technology at all, and where volumes would easily make it possible to localise. That too by companies like Tata and Maruti who have massive high-quality supplier base.

If Autocar could find out that its an Italian supplier, couldn't their source give so much as a name of this supplier?? And how can you just publish such baseless reports with no proof at all??

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by julupani

@Spike
Grade would be mentioned on the head by a general purpose bolt manufacturer. In this case where Maruti will be using lakhs of bolts, special purpose bolts need not have the grade marked on the head. They are just recognised as conrod bolts.

Julupani, even high class hardware manufacturers like TVS have grades marked on them like 6.6, 8.8, 10.9 (depending on the Standard followed). For e.g.-

Bolt Grade Markings and Strength Chart

I am also attaching pics of a con rod used by an Indian Manufacturer, although pics are not clear but it has " TVS 10.9" clearly marked on the bolt head.

Bolt used in crankcase-



Connecting rod-





Nuts usually do not have this type of marking. The bolts need not be classified as "con rod bolts", chances are some other manufacturer may be using this in some other application and hence the marking. I really don't know what bolts MUL is using.

Ok, let us leave this grade discussion and explore what else can go wrong with these bolts?

Originally Posted by julupani

First of all, I doubt that a small part like a con-rod bolt for an engine which sells probably more than 10,000 a month has to be imported from Italy, especially to India which is one of the leading auto-ancillary manufacturers in the world. Also how logical is it to make a part as small as a bolt in Italy. Why incur a high shipping cost for a part that requires no high end technology at all, and where volumes would easily make it possible to localise.

+1, if they really import such parts from Italy, something's seriously wrong!

Spike

[rkg]

Originally Posted by julupani

But, I think this is complete bogus speculative journalism, which does not seem to have any backing up at all.
If Autocar could find out that its an Italian supplier, couldn't their source give so much as a name of this supplier?? And how can you just publish such baseless reports with no proof at all??

+1 to that. Autocar should name the supplier otherwise the intention of the article is suspect and appears to have been motivated

[julupani]

@Spike

I did not say bolts don't have grade markings. And what I meant by general purpose manufacturer was somebody who manufactures bolts for many companies and sells them in general, like TVS. But a large scale consumer like Maruti would more likely have a small number of exclusive suppliers, who may not find it necessary to mark their bolts with grades, as the bolts that will go to Maruti will only be of specific grades.

Manufacturers like TVS will produce bolts in standard specs, while large scale users like Maruti need not stick to standard specs. They have large enough volumes to ask manufacturers to make bolts of any dia, pitch or grade.

Neway, like you said, let's leave this discussion, seems to getting OT.

[@Chaand]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

There is another problem, too. Owners of some of the affected cars would quietly try to push them off into used car market. Now on, one has to be careful in buying a used Swift/Dzire/Ritz and would do well to check the mfg. period to prevent ending up with a lemon.

Good foresight. I guess a buyer needs to go through all the recall threads of a particular brand before taking the plunge. Would be good to add this point to the TBHP checklist (if not done yet).

[raju2512]

Originally Posted by @Chaand

Good foresight. I guess a buyer needs to go through all the recall threads of a particular brand before taking the plunge. Would be good to add this point to the TBHP checklist (if not done yet).

MSIL has complete service history of the cars. Even if some one buys "an affected car", MSIL will know the status and change the part when the vehicle goes for service.

Let's not get paranoid over issues about which we have no expertise or technical data to analyse. Trust the manufacturer and they have enough systems to get you a good car

[@Chaand]

Originally Posted by raju2512

Let's not get paranoid over issues about which we have no expertise or technical data to analyse. Trust the manufacturer and they have enough systems to get you a good car

Its not about getting paranoid, but acting sensibly.
If I were a buyer of used car and have an option of buying a car which is not affected by a recall, then I would go in for that car anyday over a car which has been affected. Whether the part has been replaced or not would not matter to me.

[Malikayil]

@Amit : you are asking for something like this:

A builder uses "X" brand of cement for construction & the construction collapses - why should the cement brand "X" be blamed ? why no questions on the mix ???

Fiat only shares the technology. its MUL who builds engines. they should have inspected this before fitting - what did the quality check guys in MUL did when these cars are rolled out.

i will not ever allow my new cars engine to be stripped open even @ a authorized MUL dealership.

let MUL take the ownership & replace the cars - they are NO.1 in India & they are at this level because of the common man like me. its the hard earned money on which they are playing

a united approch by all the ownes can definitly bring them down for replacement - MUL talks about being JDP No.1

Originally Posted by amitpunjani

Hi People,

Very interesting that Maruti will recall Diesel Engine Swift, but the big question lies What about TATA and Fiat Engines.

Replacing the con rod bolt means dismantiling the whole engine and honestly speaking how many people would like to see the whole engine into pieces of their new cars.

Amit

[julupani]

I doubt that the mistake is serious enough to warrant a replacement of the car, let alone the engine.

Also, the bolts must have had metallurgical issues, not exactly something you can spot with a naked eye. So it is definitely not a gross mistake on the part of MUL in any sense.

Can anybody confirm as to whether the warranty on the engine will be increased in any way? I think it will be a reasonable call to increase the warranty by about 6 months at least on the engine.

[satish_tns]

I came accross the information that many maruti swift diesel, including mine, had defective engine oil pressure sensor and were replaced by maruti under warranty. That was not a recall but issues reported soon after engine oil change in 3rd free service and 4th paid service. Point here is that, many fiat palio multijet had the same issue. This gives us a hint that maruti and fiat get the engine oil pressure sensors from the same manufacturer. This is just my guess on understanding the same issue occuring on both maruti swift and fiat palio. Not sure of tata indica vista.

So why not this con rod bolt issue occur in fiat palio too? Contradictorily, since there is no recall on fiat palio, does that mean that this con rod bolt issue is not in fiat palio and it is only on maruti cars?
This may not be a question to anyone but just a question that passed in my mind.

[julupani]

A con-rod bolt is an integral part of every engine. You cant have an engine without con-rod bolts.

As of oil-pressure sensors, they are highly specialised parts. The same sensors can be shared across engines as well, not only across manufacturers. Thus sharing of such a part is to expected.

As for Palio recall, I doubt that more than 10 Palios were sold in the period in question. If there was a problem with the Palio, the moment they discovered a problem, they could have called up all the affected customer directly in less than an hour. No need for a "recall".

Though the same engine is shared by the Palio, Punto, Manza, Vista and Linea in different states of tune. But all of them would have the same con-rod bolts. If they were effected all would be affected and not just one.