[vb-saan]

A point to note in the so-called feature rich cars is that, how well the features are implemented and how useful those features are. Sometimes, those added features are good to lure the buyers, but not critical in daily usage.

And some features (or lack of it) get overly discussed and at times put the buyer in dilemma (e.g.; placement of indicator stalks)

Talking about the well-engineered cars (below D-segment), it’s often hard to find an overall package which is excels both mechanically and electrically. There are cars which are mechanically good but may have nagging electrical problems. On the other hand, there are many models which are well engineered, but mechanically not very exciting (maybe a vague steering, on an ancient engine)

[jinojohnt]

Let us divide these categories and debate further:

1. Better Engineered Car

2. Features - Safety
ABS/EBD, Airbags, Projector Head Lamps, Reverse sensor, Day night mirrors, Blind spot warning, Lane departure warning, stop assist, Seat belt warning, Tubeless tyres, Seat belt pretensioner and whiplash protection, Variable assist Power Steering, passenger cage, crumple zones, Euro NCAP rating, good reverse visibility

3. Features - Comfort
Stereo with ipod, Climate Control a/c, Simple Power Steering, Power Windows, Leather seats, Remote Boot opener, electrical seat adjust with memory, Heating of seats, blue tooth interface for phone (I am not including this in safety features because using phones while driving is dangerous anyway).

4. Features - Looks
Alloy wheels (many people buy alloys for the looks), body colored bumper and mirrors, biege interiors, Availability of prefered color

Please mention which of the above points you consider while buying a car.

[Abhi_Automobile]

Abhi, thanks for pointing it out, now that I read my comment I actually realised I came across as rude perhaps. Let me clarify that the friend of mine owns a Vista, and the statement was more in aspiration terms as in, how much we would love to have higher segment vehicles. I too had(and continue to have) a 14 year old zen. Apologies if I hurt any sentiments

Again. I am a Punjabi and know how we people think but somebody who is a third person who owns such cars and hears criticisms about it will surely not appreciate such words. Ain't it!

Back to the topic: Well, we can divide features etc but at the end of the day, when anybody goes out to buy a car (mango man), he tends to look at things in totality. What do I get for the money that I spend? Is the natural questions that pops to his mind. He doesn't tend to divide the features logically.

However, I think we have come to a maturity level that we (most Indian car buyers) tend to value safety features. Or at least look at them in separate light compared to say Gadgetry. I, for e.g., would not buy a car that does not have ABS and at least two airbags in my next car.

[sgiitk]

I tend to agree with kumarsiddhi. Engineering Quality and Better Features is always a grey area. There is normally, a minimum on both, and cars below this threshold on either front tend to get rejected out of hand. Another point considered by many (esp. myself) is the quality, and to a certain extent cost of maintenance. Once the car crosses the thresholds then it is purely a personal decision, and some time one parameter may become almost over-riding. Take my case last year, I was looking for a Sedan in the 12-15 lac range. VW were ruled out since they had no dealership in Kanpur (do have now), and Skoda for very poor reputation on the service front. The short list came to Honda & Toyota. When we decided on the AT we went for Honda even though Toyota offered more creature comforts.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

I think we have come to a maturity level that we (most Indian car buyers) tend to value safety features. Or at least look at them in separate light compared to say Gadgetry. I, for e.g., would not buy a car that does not have ABS and at least two airbags in my next car.

Even I will not choose a car (for my next purchase) which is low on safety features. But I guess majority of our public are still not warmed up to the idea that safety is not an option, but a necessity. I have seen people relaxing on safety options, but nitpicking on other comforts. The reasoning in general is that ‘I am a good driver, and I know to drive safe’. At times, there are weird arguments like safety features make one feel relaxed while driving, and could result in accidents

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Let us divide these categories and debate further:

1. Better Engineered Car

2. Features - Safety
ABS/EBD, Airbags, Projector Head Lamps, Reverse sensor, Day night mirrors, Blind spot warning, Lane departure warning, stop assist, Seat belt warning, Tubeless tyres, Seat belt pretensioner and whiplash protection, Variable assist Power Steering, passenger cage, crumple zones, Euro NCAP rating, good reverse visibility

3. Features - Comfort
Stereo with ipod, Climate Control a/c, Simple Power Steering, Power Windows, Leather seats, Remote Boot opener, electrical seat adjust with memory, Heating of seats, blue tooth interface for phone (I am not including this in safety features because using phones while driving is dangerous anyway).

4. Features - Looks
Alloy wheels (many people buy alloys for the looks), body colored bumper and mirrors, biege interiors, Availability of prefered color

Please mention which of the above points you consider while buying a car.

For me, it is definitely 1 & 2. #4 anyway is standard in most of the models offered.

[vishnurp99]

Signs of a well Engineered car for me.
1. Good Drivability.
2. NVH levels
3. Good Ride and Handling combo.
4. Steering Feel/Driving Feel/Preciseness
5. AC Efficiency since i stay in kerala which is quite hot.
6. FE to Performance trade off is optimal.
7. Maintainabilty is good in terms of cheap good quality easily available spare parts.

The car which delivers on all these respects at a reasonable price will have good sales too. Eg is the Figo.

Features won't be successful unless the car itself is well engineered

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

7. Maintainabilty is good in terms of cheap good quality easily available spare parts.

Just one doubt. How does 'Cheap spares' fall under good engineering category?

The cost of spares mostly depends on how much localization is done and some brands charge for their brand image. So IMO, its not really an engineering thing. Also, easy availability of parts is again not an engineering thing.

A well built, long lasting part is an example of good engineering. Guess you meant the same.

[vishnurp99]

Actually IMHO any car like any other mechanical device can have parts failing and could also incur accidental damage. Now for a well designed product, making fixes should be easy. Basically you shouldn't have to replace the entire part if there is an issue in a small bolt. In a country like US which is rich and wasteful by nature this probably doesn't make a huge difference but in India this matters and you can achieve by spending good thought during the design.

[Arkin evoisrevo]

Well, I would, anyday, prefer a car that is:
1)"Better engineered": In terms of the body, its design safety and stability.
2)"Better engineered":In terms of egronomics.
3)Keeps me SAFE in the case of a crash.
4)Has at least ABS among safety features.
5)Has a decent engine (& gearbox) that does doesn't huff and pant sluggishly, and at least does it's job with ease, it it unfortunately is not a hoot to drive.

6) Has BASIC Features. IMHO, the basic features a car must have are: Air-Conditioning, Power Steering, ABS, Internally Adj. ORVMs, Cooled glovebox and Central locking. I would anyday buy a Figo, Punto, Vista or Polo against a Swift VDi/Vdi ABS or i20, and a Fiesta/Manza over the Dzire and Etios.

(2&3 are now reasons why I fret at my i10 sometimes, as it does 90% duty on the highway, at least for the next 2-3 months. But after 3 months, it will retire to town use)

[vishnurp99]

Some more signs of well engineered cars for me.
1. Cars which are engineered with market expectations in mind. Polo for eg lacks in rear seat space/comfort while Vento is designed with that in mind and in the process VW gets to make higher margins too . the other eg which comes to mind is Figo with it's GC or lack of it while the Fusion was good in that aspect.
2. Good power to weight ratio. You don't want a overweight punto 75 bhp with turbolag and all .
3. Ergonomics/Space utilization, Again Punto's ergonomics are all messed up. It's big from outside but doesn't have the same inside. Palio had better ergonomics in comparison.
4. Nimbleness/Turning radius - I live in an indian city where a proper 4 laned road is a luxury and if it's there it's filled with traffic.
5. Crash safety - Cars with safety features like Airbags/Abs. Good build/crash zones etc. I have seen honda cars getting a lot of damage from small hits. This could be crumple zones which make the car safer for occupant.
6. Dent Safety - Skoda/Fiat/Ford scores here from my personal experience.
7. Durabilty/Lack of Niggles.

[CANPUSH]

I prefer better engineered cars. Order of preferences.

1. Drivability
2. Reliability
3. Safety
4. Comfort
5. Fuel Economy
6. Maintenance

In that order. Features like - Electrically folding mirrors, Electrically adjustable seats, Leather seats, bluetooth, Alloy wheels, body coloured bumpers and OVRMs, Reversing camera, etc. are welcome but not essential.

However, in Indian conditions Airbags, ABS, EBD, Seat belt warning, Tubeless tyres, Seat belt pretensioner and whiplash protection, Well designed crumple zones, etc. are essential looking at safety on roads.

Sunroof, Heated seats, LED string of lights, etc are of no value in India.

[troublemaker]

I prefer a better engineered car any day.

I also prefer the base model of big car over top end model of a small car. For example, I would buy base model of Honda Accord over top end model of Honda Civic.

[dot]

Since the discussion has somewhat turned to question of what is a well engineered car, here are some of my thoughts.

1. A top class engine mated with a responsive gearbox. The engine should last 3-4 hundred thousand miles without any engine job. Gearbox should be designed to use the engine's optimum torque levels, not leaving the driver to hunt around for the sweet spot.

2. Fatigue free body. You don't want hear rattles as soon as 20k kilometers are up. That means body joints and elements have been designed, welded and joined properly.

3. Responsive steering. As little body roll, understeer or oversteer. I dont mind a hard ride or soft ride as long as the steering does what I am telling it to do.

4. Well thought of interiors. No blemishes, no rattles, no gaps and no ugly and visible loose wires and nuts. I don't care about luxurious or basic interiors as long as they are well done for the long haul.

5. Critical parts that don't fail. I don't want the car to get stranded in middle of a cross country drive.

6. Safety. Actually after witnessing several horrible accidents, my realization is that a well designed chassis/body with good seatbelts are enough for most purposes.

[Ricky_63]

Good engineering takes top priority alongwith safety. I DO NOT want a christmas tree for a car. I want a car that does the job effectively.


Frivilous features do NOTHING but decorate the car, which to MY mind is useless

[carfreak]

Better Engineering wins anyday!!of course when you have 2 well engineered products then you tend to look at the features each provide!