Rally Suitability of Swift/SX4 in India

1100D · 23rd October 2007, 20:57

A little search did not lead to satisfactory answers about the future torch bearers of the present Maruti Rally cars.

Swift, a lot of hoopla was made at all sales brochures about "Rally based suspension system" (whatever that means). But in reality when I checked the swift underbonnet out, the strut towers were quite unaccesible to do a decent strut-tower bracing before a lot of trouble is taken. Admit that the body itself is structurally more rigid than the Esteem but is it enough to bear the stresses Rallying demands. However the 1.3 MJD seems to be a cool customer, and has the potential to be the first diesel powerplant that has the capability of taking on the petrol ones.

Regarding SX4, haven't seen it in flesh in Sedan form, so will try to learn from inputs. But I am led to beleive that the hatch is doing quite good in the international circuit (which the Swift too is, but a JWRC car can't be compared to what a privateer in India will have the ability to tinker with).

So let the opinions roll.

theMAG · 23rd October 2007, 21:12

In the Swift, the first thing that'll make a fantastic crescendo and fall off will be the door panels. And the clutch will fuse in the 1st 10 minutes of the rally.

On the SX4, the rear door handles will come off before the start countdown.

s0uljah · 23rd October 2007, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMAG

In the Swift, the first thing that'll make a fantastic crescendo and fall off will be the door panels.

Good na, more power to weight?

Mpower · 24th October 2007, 02:00

It all depends on the rulebook and which car it favours. Right now the Swift will rule the 1300 category because there is nothing else out there that can match it. (maybe the Fiesta 1.4 if you push it to 1400)

For the 1600 category, SX4 is good but the Fiesta 1.6 is really really good and lot of development is already done in Europe by privateers...but it will be a close fight.

But all the glamour is in the open category where the Cedia rules.

chetan · 24th October 2007, 09:57

i know the indian fiesta rally car is fast, but the European version of the fiesta i think is faster...overall its a very good rally car.....faster than cedia in terms of speed but lags in handling

WhiteKnight · 24th October 2007, 12:01

Hope you guys have seen it. SX4 had a test run on Corsia WRC- Rallye de France.

BlackPearl · 24th October 2007, 12:26

IMO swift should rule in 1300 class as there is nothing else but I am not very sure about SX4. Its high cg and heavy weight will need a lot of tinkering to able to compete with the fietas and balenos. Cedia is in a different league altogether.

Rtech · 24th October 2007, 12:37

The Swift comes up against the Esteem. Same engine and less weight of the Esteem means that logically, the Esteem would be quicker. However, the Swift does handle better. How that would translate to the rally circuit is a question mark i.e. will a better handling swift be able to nullify the couple of hundred kilo's of extra weight? Some of the Rally boys like killjoy or chetan could give us a better idea.

The SX4 would be good competition against the Fiesta Grp N.

But all this is conjecture, as Maruti is so slow on the uptake, that they show no signs of homologating either car.

n_aditya · 24th October 2007, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

Hope you guys have seen it. SX4 had a test run on Corsia WRC- Rallye de France.

Also remember seeing the Suzuki Swift in one of the WRC rally's.

But hey, if u gonna take a family sedan for a rally, get it stripped of all that plastic and reinforce it with a nice roll cage et all for a safer ride. Dont expect comfort and luxury in a rally car.

rahul_intlad · 24th October 2007, 14:11

SX4 sedan at The Raid de Himalaya:

Suzuki had entrusted four spanking new SX4s to motoring journalists to drive in the 'Adventure trial' category of the Raid.

The link:
Other events - An angel at Tabo - Business Standard Motoring

Not much about the car here though

WhiteKnight · 24th October 2007, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_aditya

Also remember seeing the Suzuki Swift in one of the WRC rally's.

Must be JWRC. Swift is the reigning champion

ajitkommini · 24th October 2007, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

Must be JWRC. Swift is the reigning champion

Isn't that the 1600cc Swift Sport?

WhiteKnight · 24th October 2007, 16:52

Yes and no. It is 1600cc called Super Sport. But my understanding it that the JWRC version is running an entirely different engine called Super 1600, putting ~215 bhp. I may be wrong

jassi · 24th October 2007, 18:20

jwrc - i have seen swifts on jwrc so it must be modifiable into a rally car however mostly thats the 2 door swift sport version with the 1.6ltr engine

heres the specs on that
2006 FIA JUNIOR WORLD RALLY CHAMPONSHIP

-j

1100D · 24th October 2007, 20:11

Which class it will cater to is one thing.
The question is how easy it will be to get the Swift to be rally ready. The Swift JWRC is a dedicated rally car which has manufacturer support.

The Centre of Gravity thing on a tall car isn't as big an issue as sometimes made out, because the "centre of mass", mostly dictated by the positioning of the engine and drivetrain components (the heaviest concentrated bits on a car) are positioned as low as the low-slung cars. The Roll observed maybe due to suspension settings rather than height of the roof. Santro being a classic example, that tall boy handles almost as good as a low slung Zen.

23rd October 2007, 20:57	#1
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	Rally Suitability of Swift/SX4 in India A little search did not lead to satisfactory answers about the future torch bearers of the present Maruti Rally cars. Swift, a lot of hoopla was made at all sales brochures about "Rally based suspension system" (whatever that means). But in reality when I checked the swift underbonnet out, the strut towers were quite unaccesible to do a decent strut-tower bracing before a lot of trouble is taken. Admit that the body itself is structurally more rigid than the Esteem but is it enough to bear the stresses Rallying demands. However the 1.3 MJD seems to be a cool customer, and has the potential to be the first diesel powerplant that has the capability of taking on the petrol ones. Regarding SX4, haven't seen it in flesh in Sedan form, so will try to learn from inputs. But I am led to beleive that the hatch is doing quite good in the international circuit (which the Swift too is, but a JWRC car can't be compared to what a privateer in India will have the ability to tinker with). So let the opinions roll. Last edited by 1100D : 23rd October 2007 at 20:59.
	() Thanks

23rd October 2007, 21:12	#2
theMAG Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Avon, CT Posts: 7,217 Thanked: 1,807 Times View My Garage	In the Swift, the first thing that'll make a fantastic crescendo and fall off will be the door panels. And the clutch will fuse in the 1st 10 minutes of the rally. On the SX4, the rear door handles will come off before the start countdown. Last edited by theMAG : 23rd October 2007 at 21:25.
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 02:00	#4
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,730 Times View My Garage	It all depends on the rulebook and which car it favours. Right now the Swift will rule the 1300 category because there is nothing else out there that can match it. (maybe the Fiesta 1.4 if you push it to 1400) For the 1600 category, SX4 is good but the Fiesta 1.6 is really really good and lot of development is already done in Europe by privateers...but it will be a close fight. But all the glamour is in the open category where the Cedia rules.
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 09:57	#5
chetan BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 487 Thanked: 11 Times	i know the indian fiesta rally car is fast, but the European version of the fiesta i think is faster...overall its a very good rally car.....faster than cedia in terms of speed but lags in handling
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 12:01	#6
WhiteKnight BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 998 Thanked: 662 Times View My Garage	Hope you guys have seen it. SX4 had a test run on Corsia WRC- Rallye de France.
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 12:26	#7
BlackPearl Team-BHP Support Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Calcutta/London Posts: 3,608 Thanked: 16,998 Times View My Garage	IMO swift should rule in 1300 class as there is nothing else but I am not very sure about SX4. Its high cg and heavy weight will need a lot of tinkering to able to compete with the fietas and balenos. Cedia is in a different league altogether.
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 12:37	#8
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	The Swift comes up against the Esteem. Same engine and less weight of the Esteem means that logically, the Esteem would be quicker. However, the Swift does handle better. How that would translate to the rally circuit is a question mark i.e. will a better handling swift be able to nullify the couple of hundred kilo's of extra weight? Some of the Rally boys like killjoy or chetan could give us a better idea. The SX4 would be good competition against the Fiesta Grp N. But all this is conjecture, as Maruti is so slow on the uptake, that they show no signs of homologating either car.
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 14:11	#10
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 4 Times	SX4 sedan at The Raid de Himalaya: Suzuki had entrusted four spanking new SX4s to motoring journalists to drive in the 'Adventure trial' category of the Raid. The link: Other events - An angel at Tabo - Business Standard Motoring Not much about the car here though
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 16:52	#13
WhiteKnight BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 998 Thanked: 662 Times View My Garage	Yes and no. It is 1600cc called Super Sport. But my understanding it that the JWRC version is running an entirely different engine called Super 1600, putting ~215 bhp. I may be wrong
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 18:20	#14
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	jwrc - i have seen swifts on jwrc so it must be modifiable into a rally car however mostly thats the 2 door swift sport version with the 1.6ltr engine heres the specs on that 2006 FIA JUNIOR WORLD RALLY CHAMPONSHIP -j
	() Thanks

24th October 2007, 20:11	#15
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	Which class it will cater to is one thing. The question is how easy it will be to get the Swift to be rally ready. The Swift JWRC is a dedicated rally car which has manufacturer support. The Centre of Gravity thing on a tall car isn't as big an issue as sometimes made out, because the "centre of mass", mostly dictated by the positioning of the engine and drivetrain components (the heaviest concentrated bits on a car) are positioned as low as the low-slung cars. The Roll observed maybe due to suspension settings rather than height of the roof. Santro being a classic example, that tall boy handles almost as good as a low slung Zen. Last edited by 1100D : 24th October 2007 at 20:17.
	() Thanks