[cinclaturbo]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

hhmm..so u mean to say raj hingorani and a few tuners of that caliber dont know what they are doing?? btw 100 bhp on a zen with engine mods is quite unlikely even with a good port,polish work,high lift cams,better injectors,better valve springs,freeflow,headers et all..and not to mention the tinkering these guys do with the electronics like piggy back ecu's and what not..btw wht if i tell u atleast one of the zens were running all of these with NOS and managed a lousy time and yet another zen was running a single webber too and was quite extensively modded..mods on these cars are a plenty but there are other factors too like a so called good driver who can get every second out of the car..

ps: if u happen to know any such tuner who could give me a 100 bhp zen and prove it then im heading to ur place with a blank check ..

well i am not trying to start something with the high caliber tuners u mentioned ,all i am trying to say is that those cars what u mentioned are not running close enough to limit.To name a few tuners who can give u 100 hp zens are .......... Leela,anand,Bviji,bobby jayaram,lalwani,sunil shanbagh ...... to name a few.Some the cars these guys race or prepared are more than 100hp per litre without forced induction.All these are dyno tested.So lets not underestimate tuners in india.When they can afford to run penske and racing dynamics suspension setups on their esteems which cost upwards of 1.5 lac rupees.Spending the same amount or more on the engine is not problem to get the 100 hp per litre mark.......

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

Some the cars these guys race or prepared are more than 100hp per litre without forced induction.

Is there any zen that I can see in the 1 ltr class.

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

All these are dyno tested.So lets not underestimate tuners in india.

Please do provide a dyno chart / zen to show so.

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

When they can afford to run penske and racing dynamics suspension setups on their esteems which cost upwards of 1.5 lac rupees.Spending the same amount or more on the engine is not problem to get the 100 hp per litre mark

The cars that you are talking about are the Rally cars and please do remember that the rally cars run stock only ECU is free as long as the wiring harness remains the same without any damages.

I respect the names you have taken, however how many of them have you interacted with? please do ask them about what you said is possible or not.

I am sorry if it sounds like I am getting personal but, have been watching this thread for quite some time and it suddenly seems to have taken a diversion from the main topic in discussion.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

what i meant was a individual throttle body fi system.Why...... to get 15hp over whatever comes on the standard.

Individual throttle bodies are used to get better throttle response.
100 bhp out of a Zen is 72% increase in power. At that point, it will not look anything like a stock engine anymore.

[cinclaturbo]

Originally Posted by Psycho

Is there any zen that I can see in the 1 ltr class.
I am sorry if it sounds like I am getting personal but, have been watching this thread for quite some time and it suddenly seems to have taken a diversion from the main topic in discussion.

Well okay i know its kinda diverting. Anyway the cars that i was talking about are not their rally cars.I was referring to the cars they built for people or themselves for other purposes other than rallying. I do interact very often with the 1st four of the tuners i mentioned.

[cinclaturbo]

Originally Posted by Psycho

Well this may sound a little weird but a single injector is not as good as per cylinder injectors, hence 15 bhp with one injector is a not possible. A well chosen carburettor which has been well tuned will outdo a single injector anyday.
Also lets get out of this 100 bhp zen discussion too, 40 - 50% improvement can be got directly on the engine with all the mods you mentioned and MORE but to go beyond NOS is mandatory.

Well, i will stop about the 100hp zen.Well here is a picture of the throttle body fi injection system.The entire fi sys, ecm... setup costs around 2lac rupees. Its running one of the tuners cars i mentioned. Well the bhp lets not argue .And if u can get a carburettor that can out do this setup well.......... what can i say......

[Domnic]

the picture you have posted... it does have ITB's, and i wonder why they have used an 8v head??

[cinclaturbo]

Its a old pic. I just posted it to show what the sys looks like.Well they have moved on from 8v esteems now.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

The entire fi sys, ecm... setup costs around 2lac rupees.

Well the ecm bit changes the perspective a bit and I can guess who did that setup, however coming back to the discussions of cost 2 L for such a setup is too steep???

About a month ago a old hand in the drag circuit told me that i is no longer viable to try and build a eZen anymore as it's now a money game and I completely agree with the person, however I ask where is the incentive for a normal person wanting to break into the circuit???

[cinclaturbo]

This was the cost 3 years back.Well the incentive here was to produce 100 hp per litre on an indian car.....and was achieved with good success.Once the other cars get to this spec -- no stock car with nos will stand a chance.There's nothing more u could do to this engine except may be add nos or stick a turbo or something.... but then it becomes forced induction....which is totally a different game..

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

And if u can get a carburettor that can out do this setup well.......... what can i say......

Dont mean to drag this further, but you can get a quad carb setup that will match this. After all, all it does is spray fuel. But nobody does it anymore since its a pain to tune. If you look at any superbike from 2-3 years ago they have quad carb setups with trumpet intakes....and when they switched over to FI, the power didnt increase.

PS: Nice pic, Is this the GroupA Esteem engine done by J.Anand. (back when GpA was allowed)

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Psycho

where is the incentive for a normal person wanting to break into the circuit???

Yes, Psycho. This was my original grudge against nitrous enhancement. Can someone answer this question?

[Jaggu]

@ V.. answer is zilch.. just get out there and make fun of yourselves and others n u will just be amazed

@ C turbo.. will give credits to tech advancement but for me, charm syill is with the old grease monkeys.. and pls even these individual tbi.. nope no way 100 bhp and there is some stuff like gear and physics when it comes to quarter mile so if its just making a XXX bhp motor but put that on to track an be blown away by a dolphin montana with esteem engine

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

@ V.. answer is zilch.. just get out there and make fun of yourselves and others n u will just be amazed

@ C turbo.. will give credits to tech advancement but for me, charm syill is with the old grease monkeys..

Well at least you are out there to prove a point and I think you sure have from time to time... As for the grease monkeys part of it have always loved the approach

Guess innovative thinking and good driving are going to be key from now on

[cinclaturbo]

[SIZE=2]Ok lets move on from this zen thingy.From what i heard there are few more drags lined up over the next three months.We ll see how much more each car has evolved from this drag.[/SIZE]

[cinclaturbo]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

so if its just making a XXX bhp motor but put that on to track an be blown away by a dolphin montana with esteem engine

That i cant argue with.
May be next time we may see that engine in maruti 800.....