[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

Newcomers don't expect to win at their very first attempt do they??
Keep entering events make ur car faster at very event..... give urself some time.
Once u get closer to the top. They spring some surprises.
If i may quote an example, even JD's lancer did'nt run 12 at the very first run. I think he started at 15s.When fastest foreign cars(supras and porsche) ran 13 something.
Where was the incentive for JD?.He had 13 sec cars for competition,turbo, nitrous and all..

well i completely agree to ur point of view..yes one cant expect to win wonders at the very 1st attempt..it has to go stage wise..need to climb each step to reach the top of the ladder..thats exactly the reason we are making a fuss about this here and at RDD too..

eg: as u all know we placed last but one at the drag..but im not faced with the bad performance..v1p3r and me did it with a view to gain drag experience and will vouch that as long as we can, we will attemp at bettering our timing..but what i felt wrong was we have the patience to give it a go no matter what comes,but will all have the same patience ?? i dont think so, if a guy comes last 2 times in a row just for the fact that the 20k he spent on engine mods were of no use and was beaten by a guy just running NOS...just for the fact that he cant afford it,he would certainly drop out and give up his boots on drag racing..whereas his car might have won the top spot if it wasnt for the EXPENSIVE NOS..so arent we loosing talent here ?? we are ..so whats the solution for this not to happen..hope this makes u guys understand why we are so bent upon having two separate classes..to do justice to all,all those with talent but poor and those who are talented but rich..

this blatant rubbish about organisers not being able to cope up with the already busy schedule is not a reason worthy to give..if we need to propogate motorsports,then its high time its done methodically if not lets not do this at all..

we recommend equality of rights,removing poverty seems to be the main criteria of the present generation..in such cases why this discrimination on a drag strip ?? this is very disheartening to see..

[Godfather]

i definately feel that nos cars should race against cars that also have nos.. there should be separate rules for this.. any car no matter how good the mod can lose out to a car with nos (obviously the guy who has nos can also afford to do up his engine right!!!!)

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by Mpower

OK, what about other mods like compression, cams, valve upsize, ITB, chips. These things cost money and make a big difference too.
By the time you clearly define all the rules, you'll end up with nice fat book......the rule book.

That's why its better to start with what is/was out there for rally cars. Gp. N stock and Gp A modified and maybe an open class with only a cc limit (turbo, super or NOS). New comers with start in GpN. Or maybe have a super-stock where you can just borrow your uncle's car and drag it.

yes mpower the rule book does exist..but are these being followed sternly is another issue to be talked about..that said and done i think mods including a head work,cams,valve springs,injectors et all still would cost u around 30k(with referance to zen, i think guys with better cars can afford marginally more) and these mods give a true indication of how good a work has gone into the car..

the rules that exist now are pretty good except that from time to time we need to update them,as in this case..unless and until our governing bodies work hard to set such rules and give licenses if and only if the organisers agree upon them can we see some fair play..

[The Wolf]

Mclaren,,,Listen, if you wanna drag you do it with every one else who wants to depending on your capability...You cannot expect a change in the rules coz YOU arent able to match their financial/technical ability...A drag race is a drag race at the end of the day, the fastest car wins irrespective of whats gone behind it. If I cannot buy NOS my primary focus would be to make my car faster without it, thats my tuners challenge.

Ex: If you dont have the money to buy spike shoes in athletics, you either run faster than the ones who are using them or manage to buy them....if you are sane you wouldnot expect the organisers to host a new class for people who cannot afford spike shoes or would you???

Its not about who comes 1st, 2nd, 3rd...etc but its about bettering the timing every year.

[cinclaturbo]

Well the 20k you spent will contribute to you getting faster in furture events.The more money u have the faster you have the mods.... the more mods u have the quicker you are on track.
But there's a limit to spending money and what u can do on the car.
Even if u don't have money to do everything at one go... eventually you will also get to the limit. It will take a little longer thats all.

I think the one point you failed to understand is that, the very cars u are racing against have been there before u and gone up the ranks the same way.They also finished last a few times.But now they are at the top. Nos is just a part of they are running in their cars...They worked hard to get to where they are.

There are many people who spent much more and did'nt achieve what they wanted to..... they did'nt quit.They are still trying....

[cinclaturbo]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Mclaren,,,Listen, if you wanna drag you do it with every one else who wants to depending on your capability...You cannot expect a change in the rules coz YOU arent able to match their financial/technical ability...A drag race is a drag race at the end of the day, the fastest car wins irrespective of whats gone behind it. If I cannot buy NOS my primary focus would be to make my car faster without it, thats my tuners challenge.

Ex: If you dont have the money to buy spike shoes in athletics, you either run faster than the ones who are using them or manage to buy them....if you are sane you wouldnot expect the organisers to host a new class for people who cannot afford spike shoes or would you???
Its not about who comes 1st, 2nd, 3rd...etc but its about bettering the timing every year.

Hope u get it bud.Can't go on this topic much longer.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Mclaren,,,Listen, if you wanna drag you do it with every one else who wants to depending on your capability...You cannot expect a change in the rules coz YOU arent able to match their financial/technical ability...A drag race is a drag race at the end of the day, the fastest car wins irrespective of whats gone behind it. If I cannot buy NOS my primary focus would be to make my car faster without it, thats my tuners challenge.

Ex: If you dont have the money to buy spike shoes in athletics, you either run faster than the ones who are using them or manage to buy them....if you are sane you wouldnot expect the organisers to host a new class for people who cannot afford spike shoes or would you???

Its not about who comes 1st, 2nd, 3rd...etc but its about bettering the timing every year.

wolf let me point out that atleast a few of us had the privelage to take part in the drag with stock cars rather unlike a few who though owned a modded car didnt want to participate for the simple fact that they considered themselves to be incompetant right from the start or rather unable to afford a NOS kit( i know quite a few of such guys)..btw im not asking for a change of rules to suit my taste,but rather pointing out that this rule is valid in the rest of the world and its high time to stop such unfair rules being run here just to suit our organisers..as u urself said u dont like loosing once; no matter what mods one does without NOS he just CANT WIN..and thats a fact that a few guys better get straight across their heads..well if u can make a car faster than a car with NOS then i salute to u and rest assured id come to you for an car mods id need..

well coming to the eg u gave let me point out that ya u need to race even if u dont have the spikes,but i think no athlete is dumb enough to participate by giving his opponent a HEAD START of 50 mtrs in a 100 mtrs sprint..thats exaclty what a NOS kit does FYI..zen stock is 60 bhp and u run a 35 shot with NOS alone ?? isnt that equal to a 50 mtrs head start on a a athletic track ?? and to quote another eg from the drag what else do u think was a drag between a TCed esteem running with a accord with NOS..if that strikes some sence of the parity thats going on here..cinclaturbo hope that answers ur well done smilie..

[The Wolf]

Allright guys, I think there is slight miscommunication here...seems like people have got my intention incorrect or probably I havent expressed myself correctly.
Quoting post number "14", my intention is to say that NOS should have multiplication factor... but not necessarily a seperate class. Rather I would simplify by saying if you dont have the resources to NOS, TC or SC you dont paricipate with cars that have them...but you still are participating with cars without them right! So whats the problem?

Cinclaturbo, I think you got me wrong too...

Mclaren: Pls stop quoting others personal views in every other post when you cannot relate or make any hideous bit of relevance out of it...I hope Im within the limited levels of your comprehensive ability.

[general_neo]

Everybody is parapharazing the same idea in different forms...
Looks pretty funny...
Its all about me myself and my car.


I guess this multiplication factor was designed and developed by TBHPians... coz I have neva heard of something like that elsewhere... I can justify my statement if challenged... hehehehe

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Allright guys, I think there is slight miscommunication here...seems like people have got my intention incorrect or probably I havent expressed myself correctly.
Quoting post number "14", my intention is to say that NOS should have multiplication factor... but not necessarily a seperate class. Rather I would simplify by saying if you dont have the resources to NOS, TC or SC you dont paricipate with cars that have them...but you still are participating with cars without them right! So whats the problem?

Cinclaturbo, I think you got me wrong too...

fine agree upon what u said..but one doubt if u can clarify..while a few are advocating multiplication factors are there any valid technical reasons as to why a multi of 1.4,1.5 or 1.7 (have seen these figures vary like no mans business) is applied..if yes then what should be the multi for NOS,less or more..moresoever even with a multifactor for eg consider all NOS vehicles to have a multi of 1.5..then a zen with NOS would take part with the 1.6L or the 1.3L class which again isnt fair..if its pitted against the 1.3L class then the esteems will have an added disadvantage of the extra weight than compared to the zen..if a zen with NOS is pitted against the 1.6L class then by the CC itself the zen fails to match the performance of the 1.6's (taking into consideration that 993 cc x 1.5 = 1489 cc)..so now taking this into consideration does still multi make sence or running a separate category does ??

PS : wolf i started off quoting my own personal experience as an eg..but had to quote various eg pertaining to others to get the point across...well coming to point of relevance it all depends if u wanna look at it practically and logically the way its happening all around the world ..well i think the poll results are doing their bit and thats what matters..

those who cant afford NOS shouldn be racing if they are interested in JUST WINNING.If they want to race for the fun of the sport then they should go ahead if they are racing just to win and make a name for themselvs buy nos or dont race.

[Psycho]

My bit to this:
NOS is not a Naturally Aspirated form of induction but a forced form of induction as more oxygen is being fed into the cylinder chemically and mechanically than what the atmosphere can ever provide.

Hence why the parity with NOS vs Turbo or Supercharging for that matter. The rules also leave fuel free : Hint you can also run nitromethane

It is not too much about cost ( though it raises the entry costs for a newcomer ).

Also agree organisers cannot handle too many classes hence have to 2 classes for a cc category :
Street: Purely for Naturally aspirated engines
Prostreet: No holds barred for a company car being modded using forced induction methods.

We all started at the bottom following the pioneers who started the trend but is following a trend blindly right?

As for the races the least the governing bodies can do are lay down the categories in the right manner currently MAI defines a drag as a sprint and the following is an extract from their definition

"Sprints are a relatively inexpensive form of motor sport and yet very competitive. All Sprints are primarily a test of the vehicle's performance and the driver's ability to control the vehicle. Dependent on the venue, vehicles start either individually or paired side by side.

The winner being the competitor with the fastest time and speed over a measured distance. Sprint events can be categorized as under:

Straight Sprint - (standing start, single car) held over a maximum of 400 meters on either dirt roads or on a permanent drag strip. "

I am unable to see categorization anywhere excepting when the event rules come out and they change each time (yes I have been told they are club events) but why then do we have to have a valid race license when there are no rules from MAI in place except for the safety aspects.

Is asking for a formal set of rules and logical classifications a strict No No???

The drag scene is advancing too quickly and without a governing body putting in logical rules how do we expect the sport to advance fairly.

[nitrous]

This is a total nonsense post. NOS is NOT FORCED INDUCTION!!!

Secondly,Forced induction (turbo & superchargers) have a multiplication factor.Its 1.7!!

Moreover, I very rarely see cars without NOS at the drags and thats because they can't afford it excepting turbos.

Sideways, i suggest we get off this thread.Its a total waste of time and mood,man.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

PS : wolf i started off quoting my own personal experience as an eg..but had to quote various eg pertaining to others to get the point across...well coming to point of relevance it all depends if u wanna look at it practically and logically the way its happening all around the world ..well i think the poll results are doing their bit and thats what matters..

Not as much to prove a point but Im not among the ones who have voted in favour of the first parameter... I mentioned your quote as irrelevant as you are holding someones view or perception as benchmark and that is sheer immaturity. I also hoped that Im within the levels of your limited comprehensive ability, but unfortunately you proved me wrong again.

Also, those some guys you mentioned who think they are incompetant and cannot afford NOS are people who are rational in life and who just believe in doing something on their own and not holding a bowl begging money for NOS kits...

P.s to Tbhpians: None of my comments on this thread are aimed towards offending anyones views nor cause any personal affliction.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by nitrous

This is a total nonsense post. NOS is NOT FORCED INDUCTION!!!

Sorry it is not nonsense... please read the definition of "Naturally-aspirated engine" here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally_aspirated

Originally Posted by nitrous

Moreover, I very rarely see cars without NOS at the drags and thats because they can't afford it excepting turbos.

We enter a NOS car for the drags and I have a turbo'd daily drive and I still say that NOS is NOT Naturally Aspirated.