[longshanks]

Originally Posted by DicKy

but can't stand how Audi surpasses Merc.

And why is that? is it because Audi represents more of a niche market so they have to sell less?

After driving the new range of cars from these big german trio i wonder why Audi is not no.1 yet.IMHO the new Audi's are the benchmark to which the other two need to catch up.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by souravc

As I understand Audi has smashed past Merc in US sales and if one adds China to the equation where VW group is very strong and and a market which grew at 35% even when slowing down then one sees how Audi went past Merc. If I am not mistaken Daimler fired the head of Merc US which might also have played a part in the company not achieving its potential .

Audi is far away from smashing past Mercedes in US. Infact Mercedes has been the largest selling luxury brand in US for the last two months. BMW has traditionally had a stranglehold of the US market largely due to the 3 series. But this past Nov, Mercedes upstaged the Beemers by over 5000 units in monthly sales!

Audi has profited the most of the three Germans from the Chinese dividend. (And largely because it setup shop in China much before BMW or Merc) Actually Audi is to China now what Mercedes was used to be in India.

And Germany the other important market: Merc is still the largest selling brand. Only, being the largest selling brand in Germany doesn't help, coz auto sales have floundered in Germany in the recent past.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by longshanks

And why is that? is it because Audi represents more of a niche market so they have to sell less?

After driving the new range of cars from these big german trio i wonder why Audi is not no.1 yet.IMHO the new Audi's are the benchmark to which the other two need to catch up.

but dont be surprised, plenty of Audi bashers/haters around. Why care ?

[longshanks]

Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo

but dont be surprised, plenty of Audi bashers/haters around. Why care ?

OT : I do see what you are saying, why do i care? i own a BMW 3 series and planning to get the A6 3 litre super charged petrol quattro(after test driving all the german three and a jag). I used to like the rear wheel drive(in ideal conditions it is still a wee bit more fun but the quattro is simply accurate and just brilliant) but after driving the quattro i am just in love with that, also the power is always there when you really need it, hence i just voiced my opinion.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by longshanks

OT : I do see what you are saying, why do i care? i own a BMW 3 series and planning to get the A6 3 litre super charged petrol quattro(after test driving all the german three and a jag). I used to like the rear wheel drive(in ideal conditions it is still a wee bit more fun but the quattro is simply accurate and just brilliant) but after driving the quattro i am just in love with that, also the power is always there when you really need it, hence i just voiced my opinion.

Exactly my point. Somehow many people still dont name Audi in the same breath as the other 2. To them , Audi is still not there, which to me is nothing but a load of hogwash.
The A6 supercharged is a crazy monster and i hope nothing deters you from going ahead with it.
Good luck

[carfreak77]

BMW rightly leads from the front.
Damn Audi for starting the trend of using the similar designs in all models (almost identical DRLs across the range). Hate those monotonous designs and drls. They were good in the beginning but now are just too monotonous and boring. If Merc wants to catch up, I feel they need to revamp their model range particularly the E class.

[rxpaul]

Audis have been FWD or AWD cars with longitudinal engines. The VW and Skodas use the same engines, but mounted transverse. Whereas driving purists prefer the RWD and longitudinal engine layout of the BMWs and Mercedes. The BMW's additionally have 51:49 weight bias (or thereabouts).
With the rich class getting progressively younger (most Ceos now-a-days are in the 43-49 age bracket), this COULD be one reason for BMW sales leading the pack

[Nitrous Power]

Below are the USA sales of November 2011 for Merc, BMW and Audi as per WSJ:

November 2011 Sales:

Mercedes: 27,841 (up 46.2% from Nov. 2010)
BMW: 21, 521 (up 7.1% from Nov. 2010)
Audi: 9,700 (up only 3.6% from Nov. 2010)

Link:
Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by rxpaul

Audis have been FWD or AWD cars with longitudinal engines. The VW and Skodas use the same engines, but mounted transverse. Whereas driving purists prefer the RWD and longitudinal engine layout of the BMWs and Mercedes. The BMW's additionally have 51:49 weight bias (or thereabouts).
With the rich class getting progressively younger (most Ceos now-a-days are in the 43-49 age bracket), this COULD be one reason for BMW sales leading the pack

Got it spot on. I mean can't find the logic in making the base versions FWD.After all it's longitudinally mounted layout and not to say their official aversion to RWD.
There is a limit to how much horsepower and electronics can make AWD behave like RWD. Personally traction yes,grips lots of it,but FTD? BMW way ahead.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by carfreak77

BMW rightly leads from the front.
Damn Audi for starting the trend of using the similar designs in all models (almost identical DRLs across the range). Hate those monotonous designs and drls. They were good in the beginning but now are just too monotonous and boring. If Merc wants to catch up, I feel they need to revamp their model range particularly the E class.

Dont take this as sarcasm but i dont quite get the point of your post.
Audi started the whole DRL and monotonous look across the model range trend. True. For doing that they might also be suffering a bit in the way of their sales getting affected as maybe an A7/A8 customer might not want such an expensive car to look strikingly similar to the much cheaper A4. Hence he might just look elsewhere like Jaguar for instance. So in a way Audi are getting their dues/lessons for making all models look similar to each other.
But why damn Audi if others are following the trend like idiots ??? LOL
Mercedes stuck DRLs on their flagship S -class which not only look hideous but was completely unnecessary. BMW had their own style statement in the form of angel eyes/corona rings and irrespective of Audi getting in the whole DRL craze and most manufacturers following like idiots, BMW stuck by their ways and that to me is a lot more dignified and expected of a top level manufacturer like BMW.
On the contrary what Mercedes and Jaguar did, by just incorporating DRLs below the headlamps like Audi is downright stupid. Only probable consolation for Jaguar being the DRLs dont look as out of place as they do on the Mercedes S-class.
I really did not get the reason for cursing Audi. Its the others who followed like idiots. Audi pioneered the trend.

[DicKy]

^^
Come on, he was just saying a fact, the DRLs were cool when they came in the R8, but now even in an Audi they seem to be monotonous and boring( however 'kinked' it is).
BTW, following trends is what you call 'idiotic'?, then Audi will look like the biggest idiots.
Merc pioneered cars and lot of the technology that we take for granted in mass production like ABS,airbags,passenger bodyshell compartment or even the application of turbodiesel engines in premium cars.
Does it make the rest of car companies look like 'idiots'?
N.B- i personally don't like the DLRs in the S class.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by DicKy

^^
Come on, he was just saying a fact, the DRLs were cool when they came in the R8, but now even in an Audi they seem to be monotonous and boring( however 'kinked' it is).
BTW, following trends is what you call 'idiotic'?, then Audi will look like the biggest idiots.
Merc pioneered cars and lot of the technology that we take for granted in mass production like ABS,airbags,passenger bodyshell compartment or even the application of turbodiesel engines in premium cars.
Does it make the rest of car companies look like 'idiots'?
N.B- i personally don't like the DLRs in the S class.

The DRLs in Audis at least gel well with the design layout rather than sticking out like a after thought - BMW has struck a much more dignified route in having their own style statement unlike Merc . No one questions the quality of Mercs but somehow the total package has lost its appeal for the Nouveau rich and thats where they are suffering. Frankly one cannot go by a 2 months sales figure to sound out the turnaround for Merc , its without a doubt they have lost some serious ground.
Crediting Merc for ABS , airbags , bodyshell is giving them too much of undue credit . ABS was first adopted by the Detroit Big 3 , Airbags were adopted by Ford / GM maybe a decade before Merc even started thinking of it - they did pioneer adoption of crumple zone though didn't sell too many of the turbo diesel premium car till Audi's diesels managed to change the perception about the stodgy image of diesels ( Le Mans and all )

[DicKy]

@souravc- Agreeing with you that DLRs look good in the Audis than Merc and yeah the airbag was invented way back,but they were just experimenting with the market and only a 1 in a 100 bought one with an airbag and it was rather designed to replace the seat belt than supplementing it.
The proper airbag that is in use today was introduced in the S class in 1981 and you can't argue that more safety tests were done by Merc than any other company.
Also not arguing with you that Merc has lost it's shine, as it's true it has fallen out of favour due to the 'old man' image and the late 1990s and early 2000s took a heavy toll on it. Merc has to fast implement it's new age style and a major brand overhaul, though one can't say it isn't respected anymore.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by DicKy

^^
Come on, he was just saying a fact, the DRLs were cool when they came in the R8, but now even in an Audi they seem to be monotonous and boring( however 'kinked' it is).
BTW, following trends is what you call 'idiotic'?, then Audi will look like the biggest idiots.
Merc pioneered cars and lot of the technology that we take for granted in mass production like ABS,airbags,passenger bodyshell compartment or even the application of turbodiesel engines in premium cars.
Does it make the rest of car companies look like 'idiots'?
N.B- i personally don't like the DLRs in the S class.

Look dude firstly you have almost stereotyped Audi wrongly earlier in this thread by saying something like i dont know how Audi sales overtook Merc's so in case you have a closed mind towards Audi ,no matter what i say will not make much sense to you. Just look at it this way, if Audi has just overtaken Merc in total sales, it means more people are opening their minds towards Audi. Now ALL of them cant be absolute idiots right ? They just differ from your opinions thats all.
Now about the point you made, Merc has been the pioneer in many technologies across like you mentioned- ABS,airbags,passenger bodyshell compartment. But all the above features mentioned are VERY essential to the passenger's safety and IMO should be made mandatory. The fact that all these features are not even options in some hatches in India is appalling to say the least. Audi being a premium car manufacturer MUST offer all the above features. If they dont , not only will they loose sales heavily but it will give another reason for Audi haters to hate Audi even more ! LOL.
Now think about it this way, were DRLs (which might be a mandatory add on in Europe thanks to their weather but not India where is more of a style statement more than anything else ) such an absolute necessity for Merc to incorporate into their flagship world renowned sedan ? What does that say about the brand ? Wouldn't offering them at least as an option made sense in markets such as ours ?
About Audi being idiots, perhaps you did not read my post properly. I clearly mentioned that Audi might be the first ones to bear the brunt of the DRL overdose ,as all their cars looked even more similar thanks to the DRLs and they did not even look good on most last gen models save for the A4 and R8. So of course they might have lost out on prospective customers as Audi cars were not as attractive as they were when the whole DRL craze began.
I am not countering you just because you said something against Audi. I genuinely did not agree with your point of view about the whole 'how did Audi overtake Merc' scenario.
Hope you look at it from my perspective.

[longshanks]

Note from Mod: There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the board experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

As usual a lot of BMW Rear wheel drive love and Audi hate, I just wonder how many of the respected members here who curse the Audi have tried driving a quattro properly or have owned one. Also how many of them who praise BMW and rear wheel drive have actually owned or driven one properly. Rear wheel drive is good no denying and i was a fan but the quattro in Audi is just better,its more accurate it makes u want to push the car more in corners and it handles corners with no drama or fuss unlike the rear wheel drive cars.One more big advantage of the quattro in it just rips rear wheel drive cars apart in wet conditions in city traffic conditions and in hill station.

I really wanted to like the 5 series but its design looks as though the designer was lost , did he want the car to look masculine or pretty ? why not make it proportional ? is that so tough? why not make the gaps look intact rather than looking like many pieces of metal have been pasted together,the unwanted cuts and bends? why ? are they trying too hard to make the car masculine? (take a look at the continental GT, that's masculine and looks like the designer knew what he was doing). On the inside the button placement on all panels makes me wonder if it was done by a kid, why so much gap?. 535i's engine is decent but it does not deliver the power when needed (thanks to the useless gearbox), the steering has more feedback than the Audi but not as accurate, there is body roll when you corner at high speed.Diesel engines in BMW are just pathetic(cant be more polite), i hardly was able to distinguish diesel and petrol engines in the Audi when i was inside the car, in the Bimmer the diesel sounded worse than my skoda superb.Again the 3L diesel engine in the A6 in-spite of having less power and less torque than the top end 5 series it was more fun and felt more powerful, i could feel the acceleration when i put my foot down the throttle.The milege on the A6 is just far superior compared to both the Bimmer and Merc.

I wanted to upgrade from my 3 series and i went with an open mind tried all the German mid range saloons and a jag, the only car that impressed me and i found to be fun was the A6 quattro(Of course i loved the A7 as well but that will go on my list of future buy wishlist).

I see a member here talking about driving purists , who are these people? the people who own rear wheel drive cars? or else are we talking about racing drives ?. IMHO driving purists is a useless term like term Audiophile. Would we consider Narain karthikeyan as a driving purist? if yes then between the 3 series and 5 series vs A4 and A6 he prefers the latter after driving them around the circuit here in madras, may he is just an idiot who knows nothing about cars. LOL

Rear wheel drive is better suited for mid-engined cars, in fact i personally feel it is suited only for mid-engined cars so it can achieve proper weight distribution.If we wait for a few years we will see BMW switching to AWD because they have already stared to do many things the Audi way, FWD and RWD has its own advantages even if we speak in terms of pure technicality.

Automobile layout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry for the long OT.