[Ford5]

I feel weird in asking this. But here i go, Are petrol engines going to be OBSOLETE in the coming years?

Don't get me wrong, my confusion is purely regarding performance based petrol engines.

[Sahil]

Yum,Yum,Yum....This is just the kind of engine that makes my taste buds twingle.

What is the pricing like? I hope the diesel version is cheaper than the m5 petrol?

S350- I think Q4 2013 is too far, BMW will have to get these cars in ASAP cause the are perfect for markets like ours. If they don't do it there will be unofficial imports that will start, i doubt they will ever want that situation.

[911987]

All of the models above in the diesel M range are vehicles with ground clearances of a minimum of 141mm,for the 550d(it it shares chassis specs with the current 530d) going up to 200mm + for the X5/6.The current petrol M series car ground clearances hover at around 100-120mm.For the above advantage alone,which will deliver usability of a regular saloon/offroader in comparison to the M3/5's limited range of operation on our superb roads,the proposed M-diesel range gets my vote.
Just hope they keep the pricing sensible,not unlikely given that apart from the engine,the other performance bits might not quite be M-tweaked.Pricing the new cars in current M territory would also diminish the exclusivity of that range,unless of course we are looking at a gradual replacement of the petrol engines with diesels across the board by BMW.Looking at BMW's pioneering move towards runflats,does not seem beyond the realms of possibility.If any performance car manufacturer is brave enough to take that first step of a complete switch-over from petrol to diesel from which there can be little turning back,you can be sure it will be BMW.
Let's wait and watch and hopefully a sensibly priced M530d will be on our roads soon.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by 911987

@S350L-240d,
@mxx
Doubtless the Audi diesel v10 is superb,but unfortunately the six cylinder in the Touareg as well as the same engine in a higher state of tune in the Porsche Cayenne diesel are less than inspiring in terms of outright performance.The 3.0d which does duty in the 530d and the X3 3.0d both take a lot a lot of beating in this regard and at equal or lower price points as well.
Almost booked the Cayenne diesel,which I loved in all other respects,just wish the v10 had been used instead of the six cylinder 3 litre engine.

Hmm....3.0d Audi. No outright performance. Really ?
I happen to have that very engine in my A4 and where performance is concerned i haven't really had issues thwarting 530d's. No denying they (530d) are as quick but the performance deficit you claim Audi has in its 3.0d ,Iv ceased to notice. Also have you driven the new A6 with the equivalent 3.0d ? Its quicker than the 530d in its current 245hp/540nm configuration across the powerband inspite of having equal power and 40NM less torque (500NM). Also, after the 530d is updated to ~247hp/570NM, its going to be AS QUICK AS the new A6 , not quicker. Speaks volumes about the VW group 3.0d i guess ?
Of course, if you meant that the engine seems to be not upto the mark in elephants the like q7 & toureg ,well big heavy cars not meant for quick sprints to 150kph anyway. The Q7 with its 4.2 TDi engine is just about as quick to the ton as my car with a low 6 second dash to 100. All this for a 2 ton mammoth.
Finally, relatively speaking even with the 3 litre unit the VW ,Audi and Porsche SUVs sprint to the ton somewhere between 8 and 9 seconds which is also pretty brisk considering their mass. If you have noticed ,its Laura tsi and Cruze territory.
If you expect 530d like performance from these things, you are just going to need a lot more power.
Just a pointer - For any performance deficit you find in these big SUVs, just have a TD of the Q7 4.2 TDi. Il b damned if you dont have a silly grin on your face by the time you are done.

Originally Posted by S350L-E240

Btw how are you?

I am absolutely great ! Problem is ,i still havnt figured out the pattern to your cameos or should i say temporary disappearing acts every now & then. So i keep wondering - NOW where did he go ???
Just when and how do you vanish out of the blue ? LOL
How are you doing & why did you put the 530d up for sale ?
Any issues ?

[S350L-E240]

Guys sorry if I communicated wrongly and caused lenghty discussions for all, I just meant, that as a 3.0d block this does duties of what mercedes and audi's bigger blocks do and this out beats them,

Come on its a healthy leap in technology let's not make it a car maker vs car maker debate,

The bmw 3.0d block is now a part of their
30d and 40d and 50d, all in brilliant states, others have big blocks but this small block with wonderful power will out do all the others,

Just an example below

M550d X5 does 0-100 in 5.4
Q7 V12TDI does it in 5.5, and even better is the mileage, I'm really not trying to say others are bad just saying bmw has taken a huge leap for others to catch up.

Sahil,

Sorry I mis typed I meant Q4 2012 or early 2013, but looks like it will be early 2013 as this year has a healthy line up, will come only as CBU and priced between 76 - 82.

Originally Posted by Sahil

S350- I think Q4 2013 is too far, BMW will have to get these cars in ASAP cause the are perfect for markets like ours. If they don't do it there will be unofficial imports that will start, i doubt they will ever want that situation.

Platzdaturbo,

No patterns lol, sorry just crazy stuck with work and too many people falling ill in the family

Regards,

[911987]

Hello PlatzdaTurbo,
Love the way this discussion is going,love the A4 3.2tdi,would have bought it if I had not read so much negative stuff on the sales agencies,service and parts replacement hassles on this very forum.In fact just a week ago posted that I would look for the above car if BMW did not launch a more powerful 3 series.Sure,your car is superb.
As for my posts on the Audi 3.0d engine,was responding to mxx who went
"Not true. VW group a has been leading as far as performance diesels are concerned. eg: q7 v10 , cayenne diesel engine etc"
I am very appreciative of the Q7 v10 as well as the larger-engined Touareg as I have mentioned in the quoted post,my issue is with the Cayenne Diesel and the Audi Q5 versions which are fitted with the 6 cylinder 3.0d.Wont be any consolation for me if I were to know they are superb engines,which they are,but when a BMW X3 breezes past me at 6.2 sec. to a hundred as opposed to a comparatively pedestrian 7.5-8.5 seconds for the Audi/Porsche duo,will not be a happy camper.The Audi,I can understand needs to be packaged as it does to make the BMW look expensive,but it beats me why Porsche,with it's pedigree,settled for an engine mod which only reduced the 100 sprint time by just under a second on the base Audi engine from 8.5 to 7.5.
The whole basis of my posts is to try and emphasize the need for more powerful engines in more affordable,smaller, more manoeuvrable cars(find even the 530d a size too big), rather than venture into the realm of downgrading the merits of behemoths like the Q7,which do nothing for me.
Make no secret of the fact that I am a BMW fan,made easier by the fact that I have no post-purchase complaints unlike several prospective and current Audi owners,who have not only found it difficult to enforce delivery of cars already partially or fully paid for,or have experienced less-than-ideal after sales back-up.Once Audi India gets their act together,maybe I will be able to see beyond the end of my nose,where BMW sits firmly perched.
No offense intended to Audi owners or fans,just my personal opinions above.
Cheers and happy motoring.

[deetjohn]

I see that the steering is a hydraulic setup like the new M5. Considering the Diesel engine and its affiliated sidekicks, the multiple turbochargers, the AWD system etc, the M5 D got to be really heavy.

BMW does not plan to introduce its new M Performance diesels to the North American market, owing to what U.S.-based officials describe as the complexity and expense of engineering their new engine to accept SCR (selective catalytic reduction) technology that would see it comply with emissions standards in all 50 states.

Courtesy: BMW's M Division Unveils New M Performance Diesels

Originally Posted by S350L-E240

The M performance is more of a sub division of the M brand, please do not confuse these with the cars like M5 etc.

So this one is more like the X5 M or the X6 M? A brand extension exercise with a lot of performance bits than an all out M car? I can understand the case with cars like the X5 & X6. The effort required will not serve the purpose.

But BMW already have the F10 M5. So can they not make a proper Diesel M5 out of it?

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

If you wanted to know whether your car engine could do it, you'd need to call the manufacturer and ask if your V8 can be souped up to have 936 thousand billion billion billion brake horsepower.

So clearly, we need more than just 3 turbochargers.

The promo video from BMW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv5b5ZPh2N4

[Mike89]

Originally Posted by S350L-E240

The bmw 3.0d block is now a part of their
30d and 40d and 50d, all in brilliant states, others have big blocks but this small block with wonderful power will out do all the others,

I completely agree with what you are saying. However when you look at their trend with the petrol engines, there is a lot of criticism. V8 in 2012 M5 and V6 in the next gen M3. They may be faster with those turbos but the feel you get from the NA engines if priceless.
I am not against efficiency but the v10 powered M5 was one of the best sedan i have driven. Both handling and power delivery across the band. But with turbos there is going to be a lag. Not matter how miniscule it may be, its there.


Personally, I like the direction they are going in. I am an Indian afterall. With 4.7 sec to 100 and 7l/100 i think i can live with a lot more lag.



I would like to see how they layed out the the turbos underneath that cover.

[i<3turbo]

Wow look at the size of the huge intercooler upfront!

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Now , all that's left is for the juicy 4.2 TDi from the Q7/A8 to make its way into the new A6 and its war on ! Drool-worthy scenario really.
I have my doubts if Audi will follow the same route as BMW viz adding more turbos to their 3 litre unit.
Sure the 4.2 TDi V8 might be heavier than the BMW tri-turbo and might give a lesser efficiency but i am expecting there to be lesser lag on it compared to the tri-turbo. Lets see how it unfolds.
Should be interesting...

[S350L-E240]

Hello,

This 3.0d engine is pretty much zero lag as additional to the 2 existing mechanical turbos it incorporates an electrical turbocharger, which completely removes the lag which exists in the existing turbos by charging the engine until the combustion system kicks in, this also helps in terms of fuel effeciency, and various other performance enhansements,

Trust me I know you are fascinated by Audi, but give this a ffew minutes of neutral thought and you will realise BMW has taken this into a whole new world of diesel engines with its engine capacity + 0-100 and other performance and real world fuel effeciency,

I'm sure MB and Audi will follow and I think Audi will perhaps debut something like this in A6 though I am not sure am not well aware of Audis engine development,

But as a concept this whole technology was I believe first shown to the world by Mercedes in a SLK, not sure but I do remember it shown as a concept with a tri turbo some time back,

Coming back to the engine I can't wait for reviews to come in, and a nice test drive,

Regards,

Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo

Now , all that's left is for the juicy 4.2 TDi from the Q7/A8 to make its way into the new A6 and its war on ! Drool-worthy scenario really.
I have my doubts if Audi will follow the same route as BMW viz adding more turbos to their 3 litre unit.
Sure the 4.2 TDi V8 might be heavier than the BMW tri-turbo and might give a lesser efficiency but i am expecting there to be lesser lag on it compared to the tri-turbo. Lets see how it unfolds.
Should be interesting...

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by S350L-E240

Hello,

This 3.0d engine is pretty much zero lag as additional to the 2 existing mechanical turbos it incorporates an electrical turbocharger, which completely removes the lag which exists in the existing turbos by charging the engine until the combustion system kicks in, this also helps in terms of fuel effeciency, and various other performance enhansements,

Trust me I know you are fascinated by Audi, but give this a ffew minutes of neutral thought and you will realise BMW has taken this into a whole new world of diesel engines with its engine capacity + 0-100 and other performance and real world fuel effeciency,

I'm sure MB and Audi will follow and I think Audi will perhaps debut something like this in A6 though I am not sure am not well aware of Audis engine development,

But as a concept this whole technology was I believe first shown to the world by Mercedes in a SLK, not sure but I do remember it shown as a concept with a tri turbo some time back,

Coming back to the engine I can't wait for reviews to come in, and a nice test drive,

Regards,

I AM looking at it neutrally Dev.
You perhaps forgot, i love BMWs as much as i love Audis and i was a BMW fanboy till the Audi came into my life. Its just Mercs that i cant stand. So the bias only lies where my personal car is concerned but as an Audi vs BMW battle both are impressive in diesel technology. I agree with what you have to say about lag being negated its just that i also think where diesel technology is concerned Audi doesn't need to take a clue from anyone else.
Especially after having the guts to take on the likes of Ferrari,Porsche with a TDI engine in Le Mans 24 hours and coming out on top, time & again.
The 3 German brands hold such enviable positions in the world today that either of them will keep coming up with some or the other pioneering technologies every now and then.

[S350L-E240]

Agreed on all points, without going off topic talking about all 3,

BMWs diesel engines and M5 and M6 at geneva,

Audi with its new S range of cars and the 4.0TFSI from S8,

But this year the greatest even will likely be around July when the whole new S-Class W222 should bring back my lOve for Mercedes even if not I'm sure the technology it will come with will take some time for others to catch up,

Back to M550dx,

Regards,

[Mike89]

Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo

Its just Mercs that i cant stand.

You gotta drive an amg and then tell me if you still feel the same. I am a die hard bmw fanboy but when it comes to the performance division its a tough choice. I recently got a chance to drive rs5 , M3 and c63 coupe at a bmw event and let me tell you. All three cars were almost identical at track timings. But the way they drive is totally different. With audi its hardly any excitement. Bmw may be the slowest in straight line but that pointy handling would give you most exciting corners. And amg has the best over all feel. It has the best engine of them all. It roars like a lion. its fast and handles almost as good as the bimmer.

I am sure you would correct your statement once you drive the amg.
Other than that , i dont care for mercs either. But Amg rules.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by Mike89

You gotta drive an amg and then tell me if you still feel the same. I am a die hard bmw fanboy but when it comes to the performance division its a tough choice. I recently got a chance to drive rs5 , M3 and c63 coupe at a bmw event and let me tell you. All three cars were almost identical at track timings. But the way they drive is totally different. With audi its hardly any excitement. Bmw may be the slowest in straight line but that pointy handling would give you most exciting corners. And amg has the best over all feel. It has the best engine of them all. It roars like a lion. its fast and handles almost as good as the bimmer.

I am sure you would correct your statement once you drive the amg.
Other than that , i dont care for mercs either. But Amg rules.

Nothing...i mean NOTHING will and can make me change my judgement of Mercs. I have myself admitted to have an irrational and blind hatred towards Mercs. Nothing , right from their design language to their interior layout etc excites me to any level. I literally hate it.
AMGs are worthy competitors to Audi RS and BMW M and fast cars ofcourse , no questions asked but that does not in anyway get them any admiration from me. I hate them. Period.
Its best to quit trying to change my perception of Mercs because like i mentioned before, its almost irrational.