[bblost]

Originally Posted by Bigzero

If "Steam Reforming" is the industrial way to produce Hydrogen , then we are basically using methane and steam to create hydrogen and CO2 -> So the while the user feels happy about not polluting the environment by using hydrogen, its not exactly environment friendly if you look at the process from source... Also, they will still have to run after methane and natural gas supplies.

Pl correct me if I am wrong - I hope there are cleaner ways to produce Hydrogen in mass scale. I am trying to imagine a scenario if 100% of automobiles run on hydrogen . While this is a very good start, I think the real innovation will be on how hydrogen can be made available in large scale, without depending on fossil fuels of any sort.

Water as the end product also offers endless possibilities - if all automobiles produce water, and if there is a way to build in a process to recycle that water effectively, that will be an added plus!

I am sure there are many ways to mass produce Hydrogen. My research showed me this Steam Reformation is the most widely used. Strong emphasis on My in the previous sentence.

[prasanna.vps]

I did a project in my school where i had tried to sell the idea of hydrogen as a domestic fuel, initially as a mixture to LPG (as tech was not that developed). We went into the science sumit and people laughed!

I am the one laughing now, but personal tirades apart, this is one heck of a concept and THE future, whoever thought ICE would still be the best way to produce a green car. Toyota really is innovating and hats off to them! Given that all EVs have a host of environment related issues (Yes, that is correct!). From the way the batteries are produced to the way they have to be disposed. This is a great idea, and the only thing that the engine produces will be water, who would not like that!

I only wish we can convert that water and make it available to the drivers and passengers in some way!

[GTO]

An excellent article on hydrogen, Toyota & Japan:

As home market to two of the three global carmakers selling hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, Japan is understandably optimistic about the outlook for hydrogen-powered cars.

If the government's vision pans out, there will be some 800,000 of the futuristic water-emitting vehicles on Japanese roads by 2030, compared with just 1,700 today, along with a network of 900 filling stations to serve them.

Full AutoNews Writeup

[volkman10]

Toyota checking the feasibility of introducing Mirai in India.

Toyota will study the introduction of the Mirai fuel-cell car in India following the GST Council's decision to slash duty on hydrogen-powered vehicles.

Fuel-cell vehicles, still in their infancy across the world due to lack of fuel stations and expensive technology, are seen to hold an edge over electric vehicles as they not only deliver substantially higher running range but also faster fuelling

Source:

[volkman10]

Hydrogen Fuel Station Explodes In Norway, Toyota And Hyundai Halt FCV Sales.

An explosion ripped through a hydrogen fueling station in Norway earlier this week, prompting both Toyota and Hyundai to issue a stop-sale of their hydrogen vehicles in the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4EqOU2Sdq0

Link

[arungeorge]

Toyota Mirai Hydrogen test car reached Bangalore Toyota center.
As per news Toyota is planning to test the car in Kerala roads.



Source.

[SpideyBoy]

Toyota Motor plans to launch hydrogen fuel-cell car models with its China partners Guangzhou Automobile Group (GAC) and FAW Group , as the Japanese automaker tries to boost its presence in the world's biggest auto market.

Toyota will also equip GAC and their joint venture's car models with fuel cells, according to a filing by GAC to the Shanghai stock exchange on Thursday.

The companies did not disclose financial details of the projects which deepen cooperation among the partners to develop new energy vehicle and connectivity technologies.

Toyota will also expand cooperation on hybrid vehicles and aim to launch more battery electric vehicles with "good quality and low prices" separately with FAW and GAC.

Sources told Reuters last year Toyota planned to sell electric vehicles with GAC's logo in their joint venture's dealerships, in a move to meet China's strict green car quotas.

The new development plan reflects gestures of goodwill to Beijing by Toyota, whose Chief Executive Akio Toyoda wants to "step on the accelerator in China", while needing "to strike a fine balance between China and the United States", according to minutes of internal meetings seen by Reuters.

Toyota sold around 1.5 million cars in China in 2018, far below its global rival General Motors and Volkswagen's China sales. However, it is laying the foundation to increase sales in China to two million vehicles per year, Reuters reported last year.

Toyota in April said it had started supplying fuel-cell parts to Chinese commercial vehicle makers Beiqi Foton Motor Co Ltd and Beijing SinoHytec Co Ltd. In July it said it would supply key hydrogen fuel-cell parts to Chinese automakers FAW and Higer Bus.

Toyota will also share resources and talent to develop "intelligent connected" vehicles with GAC and FAW.

Source

[mohitchalla]

Living in Tokyo, owning a car is unnecessary and prohibitively expensive. Monthly parking fees and bi-yearly vehicle inspection can burn a hole in your pocket. Moreover, public transportation is so good that most people do not really need a car. But for the few days when a car is needed, I use my membership with one of the many car-sharing clubs. This time while selecting a car I came across the Mirai and I was really tempted to try the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, so I went ahead and booked it.

I arrived at the pick-up spot 10 minutes before the scheduled time. The car looked beautiful in the blue colour. Many have said that this generation of Mirai looks a lot like the Prius, but if you are a lover of automobiles, it is unmistakably a Mirai. The biggest giveaway is that the Mirai is much larger than the Prius. Given the shortage of labour in Japan and heavy reliance on automation, the pick-up was completely automated. I could unlock the car with my phone and get in.













The first thing one can admire about the car is the quality of materials and the fit and finish. It may be a Toyota but it is built by Lexus standards. I am not a big fan of leather seats but this car’s combination of fabric and leather was just amazing. I have never experienced any car seats that are so good! The roof upholstery and sun-visor material felt something like Alcantara leather, super smooth and soft to touch. The interior design and layout share a few elements with the Camry and the Corolla, but that is not a bad thing. Overall, it is extremely spacious and practical, quintessentially Japanese. The instrument cluster is placed in the centre, just above the infotainment system, which I am not a fan of. I believe the instrument cluster should be exclusively for the driver. The shift lever is a joystick type, which is seen in many other hybrid cars by Toyota and Honda.

The H2O button allows the driver to manually release distilled water from under the car, which is the only emission of this vehicle. If the user does not do it, the car will automatically keep releasing the accumulated water periodically.



As you start the car, there is no sound whatsoever, you just see a “READY” sign on the MID. The drive is very smooth and the NVH levels are almost non-existent. Ride and handling are optimised towards comfort. The steering is accurate but not engaging. The car rides on 235/55/R17 with a soft suspension setup, on top of that the roads in Japan are awesome, I did not feel a single bump during the entire day. The driving position is commanding and provides pretty good visibility all-around. Performance is smooth and linear. It is not at all underpowered but I would not call it a quick car by any means.

Having said that, this alternate fuel powertrain was exciting nonetheless. The fuel cell and the chemical reaction itself is super quiet. The only way of knowing that it is happening is by looking at the animation on the MID. The powertrain charges the battery that in turn powers the electric motors driving the front wheels. There is also regenerative braking that helps in extending the range of the vehicle. Although I have heard from others that regenerative braking needs some getting used to for the driver, I could not really feel any difference from the conventional braking system. Overall, the brake bite is adequate and there is nothing to complain about.

A special mention must also go to the rear seats. Not pretending to be a bench for 3 people. It only seats 2 people comfortably in bucket seats, and that is how I prefer rear seats in cars to be. It is a common sight in MPVs and minivans but not so common in sedans.


There were other nice features like all four seats were heated (no cooling or ventilation), heated steering wheel, electronic rake and reach for the steering, memory seats, automated emergency braking, radar cruise control, blind-spot warning, memory seats, etc. Since these are not unique to the fuel cell experience and there is enough said about them on the internet, I would not go into the details.

In conclusion, I really enjoyed my experience with the Mirai. The next generation is more powerful and rear-wheel-drive. I will update this thread if I get a chance to drive that one. Meanwhile, you can have a look at some of the pictures of the Mirai covering other interesting details of the vehicle.

ETC (Electronic Toll Collection) where one can insert a card from which the toll can be paid. The card can be removed in case the car is being driven by someone else. I wish the Indian FasTag had adopted this technology. It allows more flexibility.


The triangle-shaped cover can be opened to access the power outlet. The fuel cell can be used to power a home. A full tank can power an average home for 5 days. This is useful during times of disasters like earthquakes and tsunamis, which are common in Japan. I also like the cover provided for the rear tailgate hinge, your luggage can never obstruct the hinge while closing the gate.


Another AC power outlet for shorter-term use and lower load appliances.


You get a driving score on the MID at the end of each drive. It shows driving time, distance and efficiency in KMs per KG of Hydrogen. The Japanese text says "Accelerator pressed gently. Try to do better next time."


Wishing you all happy and safe driving. Cheers!

[bblost]

Awesome. Absolutely enjoyed your review of this Mirai.

I still feel this is a way better option that the electric cars simply because they can get "fueled up" much faster.

[TorqueIndia]

Thanks for sharing the driving experience for Toyota Mirai FCEV. How is the refuel of the car happens, how easy is it now in Japan to refuel ? What's the average range of the car in normal use ? How much does it cost for a full tank ?

Driving pleasure is a default feature in EVs, thumbs up.

[mohitchalla]

Originally Posted by bblost

Awesome. Absolutely enjoyed your review of this Mirai.

I still feel this is a way better option that the electric cars simply because they can get "fueled up" much faster.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with you, hydrogen-powered vehicles seem more promising. Fuelling is one of the biggest advantages over electric cars.

I believe the recycling of decayed batteries of an EV would also be a challenge, but I do not have enough knowledge if hydrogen fuel cell has a limited life and what are the implications on recycling it.

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

Thanks for sharing the driving experience for Toyota Mirai FCEV. How is the refuel of the car happens, how easy is it now in Japan to refuel ? What's the average range of the car in normal use ? How much does it cost for a full tank ?

Driving pleasure is a default feature in EVs, thumbs up.

Thanks for the questions. Refuelling Hydrogen in Japan is still not as easy as ICE vehicles. However, there are plenty of refuelling stations spread across the country and more stations are coming up very rapidly. If you plan your trip carefully, you will never run into an uncomfortable situation.

I wanted to take a picture of the fuel filler inlet of the vehicle. When I tried to open it in a parking lot, I got a message on the MID that the cap can only be opened in a safe, designated area. So I tried to visit a hydrogen fuelling station even though I had enough fuel so that I could experience refuelling. Unfortunately, I reached there just after their closing time. So I could not share that experience.

The range of the car is between 450 and 600 km, depending on driving conditions. The fuel tank of the car is about 122 Litres that can store 5 KG (or 10 MPa) of Hydrogen under standard conditions, with an outside temperature of 20 degrees celcius. In real-world conditions, the car can take anywhere between 4.3 and 4.6 kg of Hydrogen. During warmer months, the gas is less dense. Thus, the car will store more gas in winters and have a longer range, as compared to summers. In the last picture I uploaded in my review, I got an efficiency of 107 KM/KG. I do not know if this is good or bad. The car gave me a score of 75. I believe there is some room for improving efficiency if I drive more carefully. In Japan, the cost of Hydrogen hovers around 1000 Yen/KG, so refuelling the car costs approximately 4,500 Yen. I hope this helps.

[vredesbyrd]

Great review. Makes me wonder that why don't we have these instead of those underwhelming and polluting EVs? This would make far more sense. Only if world governments had more sense.

Probably the H2O Release can be store for emergency usage as well. Imagine driving around Rajasthan or Leh and getting your own water (provided we have H2 fueling infrastructure).

[mugen_pinaki27]

Thanks for the review, Mohit! The Mirai is one of my favorite cars from the Toyota stable. I did have a chance to take a peak at its sibling, Prius, when I saw it whiz past silently like a white cat in Delhi a couple of years back. But the price tag of nearly 27 lakhs on road deterred me from even contemplating a purchase. However, the aspiration to drive the Prius and the Mirai remains ever strong. Your review gave me another boost to retain that aspiration.

[mohitchalla]

Originally Posted by vredesbyrd

Makes me wonder that why don't we have these instead of those underwhelming and polluting EVs? This would make far more sense.

Probably the H2O Release can be store for emergency usage as well(provided we have H2 fueling infrastructure).

Thanks! I agree, hydrogen cars make a lot more practical sense compared to the EVs. But for whatever reason there seems to be too much emphasis being out on the EVs.

EVs have three challenges: 1. Charging infrastructure; 2. Range anxiety; 3. Battery recycling.

Compared to that, Hydrogen cars only need refuelling infrastructure. Should be easier to implement.

[mohitchalla]

Originally Posted by mugen_pinaki27

I did have a chance to take a peak at its sibling, Prius, when I saw it whiz past silently like a white cat in Delhi a couple of years back. But the price tag of nearly 27 lakhs on road deterred me from even contemplating a purchase.

Have you looked for a Prius on the used market? They are relatively less driven and you can find a decent, first-owner car for around 10 lakhs. Personally, I think it is much better than the Diesel/CNG route to save on fuel costs.