[alphadog]

Great write up. Thank you for sharing such a detailed post.

I lived in the UK for 13 years, and the infra-structure and rules regarding traffic and licensing are pretty much the same as what you have mentioned. It is consistent across most of Europe. It does appear that the Nederland has more cycle friendly infra-structure. I do remember the driving test that I had taken ages ago, in the UK, with the computer test and then the actual road test. I thankfully passed it first attempt. My wife on the other hand took three attempts before passing the road component of the test. But it was all worth it and fair for most parts.

It is truly amazing the degree of thought that has gone into developing, constructing and integrating these things. It will take ages for our country to catch up. Progressive changes are happening nevertheless.

Two major changes that need to take place is stricter licensing with better driver training and awareness before the licenses are given and also the more difficult issue of changing the public's mentality and commitment towards safer and better roads.
In India, the minute the mass catches a whiff of stricter rules coming, the protests and criticisms start. The road safety bill is a good example. It is an attitude problem, which needs to change.

Cheerio!

[basilmabraham]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I will cite one peculiarity with Melbourne and it is so peculiar that it is not found anywhere else in the world and it is called a Hook Turn. Simply said it is turning right from the left and the idea is to ensure trams move through intersections ...not hard once you know what the idea behind it.

Apparently, hook turn is used in Canada too, by cyclists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn

Is the P turn implemented yet?
https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...75bd0f9fb5f548

Great write-up @vivee90. To me the most important factor that allows the 'ecosystem' to function as intended is the lesser number of people using it, compared to a country like India. I guess the stress that is put on the system by the sheer number of people using it would be huge.

[SajiNSalin]

Very nicely written article. The systems are similar in all of the developed world and even the better developing countries such as Malaysia. India has enough rules and regulations to ensure a similar system, but the lax enforcement results in the chaos we see today.
One aspect you did not mention is the behaviour of parents in the presence of young children; how often do we see the father on a two wheeler not wearing the helmet, riding on the wrong side of the road with the child on the petrol tank? He may have the helmet handy, but not on his head, in case of cops around! The child takes this as granted behaviour and the idea that laws are meant to be broken sets in.
There is no coordination between the different agencies to ease and smooth the traffic flow. Expressways emptying suddenly on to crowded roads, lack of bypass roads and a host of other traffic smoothening systems that should be there, but are not there.
When I first drove in Europe after decades of driving in India, I had to be very careful around pedestrians, watch out for speed warnings and keep generous gap between the front and rear vehicles; essentially unlearning the Indian driving methods and learn to drive in a systematic fashion.

[dileepcm]

Originally Posted by vivee90

I strongly believe that the core of such order and discipline is the strict driver license approval system and the training that goes into it.

First of all wow!! this is job extremely well done. What a write up! I have been living (and driving - almost 100k kms now ) in the Netherlands for a while now, but cannot even imagine creating quality content like what you have done! Extremely well put together with perfection in capturing the details. I am going to use this write up as a welcome reference for my friends who are newly arriving in the country and planning on driving around.

On the quoted line, I think its also important to mention about the possibility of exchanging existing (Indian / non EU countries etc) licenses for a Dutch one. There is something called as 30% ruling which is a tax benefit scheme for 'Highly skilled migrants (HSM)'. Once tax department approves the application and you become eligible for 30% ruling, drivers license can be exchanged for a Dutch one with out having to do the tests. I am not going to elaborate on the process and conditions, but at the end it costs just about EUR 100 or so to get everything done. Its all about doing some paperwork. I did the exchange and it was fairly easy process.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by dileepcm

On the quoted line, I think its also important to mention about the possibility of exchanging existing (Indian / non EU countries etc) licenses for a Dutch one. There is something called as 30% ruling which is a tax benefit scheme for 'Highly skilled migrants (HSM)'. Once tax department approves the application and you become eligible for 30% ruling, drivers license can be exchanged for a Dutch one with out having to do the tests. I am not going to elaborate on the process and conditions, but at the end it costs just about EUR 100 or so to get everything done. Its all about doing some paperwork. I did the exchange and it was fairly easy process.

Are you sure about that? Why would your tax status have anything to do with your driver license? I have heard about it before, but I don’t know of any expats that have actually done so.

Upon returning to the Netherlands, I tried to convert my Indian Motor bike license to my Dutch driver license, but they just laughed!

[dileepcm]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Are you sure about that?

Yes Jeroen. Kindly refer this link and scroll down to 'Beschikking Bewijsregel' section to the bottom of the page.
It clearly states that those who are availing 30% ruling with a valid license from their origin country are eligible for exchange. There are more detailed conditions, but I would assume that they did not accept your request because you did not have 30% ruling. In such a situation, the exchange seems to be only possible if you have a EU/EEA sort of license and clearly India is not in the list.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by dileepcm

Yes Jeroen. Kindly refer this link and scroll down to 'Beschikking Bewijsregel' section to the bottom of the page.
It clearly states that those who are availing 30% ruling with a valid license from their origin country are eligible for exchange. There are more detailed conditions, but I would assume that they did not accept your request because you did not have 30% ruling. In such a situation, the exchange seems to be only possible if you have a EU/EEA sort of license and clearly India is not in the list.

Thanks. It seems odd. But then again there are other odd rules. When we moved back from the USA to the Netherlands I wanted to bring my Jaguar with me. Normally that would have meant have import taxes and most likely an individual type test as well. Because I was emigrating back to the Netherlands I could ship the Jaguar as part of what is known as your “house hold”. Believe it or not, but all of a sudden no taxes, no fees, no testing.

The Netherlands is a country where lots and lots of things are highly regulated. Sometimes to the extent that it just doesn’t make sense. Just follow the rule and all will be well. The big problem in the Netherlands starts if you need something and there isn’t a rule. Basically you might as well forget it then. It is unlikely to happen.

I am Dutch and I moved back and I became a normal Dutch taxed citizen. I did investigate at the time. I just re-read and I remember again. The problem was that I would have had to have a valid Indian Driver license. But in India, for expats the expiry date of your driving license is the expiry date of your Visa. We left India the day before my Visa/DL expired. So I arrived in the Netherlands on the day my Indian DL expired. Talk about a catch 22.

In the early 80s I moved to the UK. In those days you just swapped your Dutch license for a UK one. Four years later we returned to the Netherlands and I swapped my UK DL for a Dutch one.

When we went to the USA, we had to get American DLs. Our insurance company gave us 60 or 90 days or so to get it sorted. Very easy!

Jeroen

[dileepcm]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Thanks. It seems odd.

You are right. In a way, It is strange to connect a tax benefit to license exchange program.

However, I think this whole 30% program also has something to do with the fact that Netherlands want to bring in or maintain a certain % of skilled migrants to get the jobs done where necessary skills or people are not available locally though the goverment has recently started taking steps to reduce these benefits. Initially the scheme was offered for 10 years, later on for 8 years and now its only first 5 years after which you will become a regular tax payer. Having offers like reduced tax on income, quicker and cheaper ways to get a license to drive etc will attract skills from abroad for sure. Fun fact: Even registered partners of 30% ruling holders can exchange their licenses even if they are not employed or not having 30% benefits on their own.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by dileepcm

You are right. In a way, It is strange to connect a tax benefit to license exchange program.
.

It is an odd program. If anything it was cooked up to promote the Netherlands amongst certain other countries. The Netherlands had an “image problem” in the sense that it had a reputation of having ridiculous high income and other taxes.

But this particular arrangement has been a bit of an oddball. Because people who would qualify are usually extremely well paid expats to start with, working for multinationals who, by and large, have very good renumeration packages anyway. But it made it cheaper for the multinationals to bring them to the Netherlands as thee companies would have to pay less tax to give them the same nett salary.

My company has an expat arrangement which is basically a nett salary. So you are guaranteed a certain nett income and the company deals with with the tax in your home and host country. If anything that makes it a lot easier for the expat.

Jeroen

[bugatti]

I had shared 2 months back, my experience getting a DL (I already had one, added a category to it). Scroll down a bit to read a philosophical monologue to contrast with what Vivee90 has shared about the Dutch system (How to get a Driving Licence in Bangalore without agents).

About 2 months back or so, had seen a documentary about cycling in the Netherlands. How they "transitioned" from more roads for vehicles to a mix with a preference for cycles. In addition, how to encourage cycling.

What they did in the 1960-80's, might hold some clues to what India can 50 years later 2020-30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBd...l=BicycleDutch

[vivee90]

Generally speaking, I don't think our population is the problem, true it is a mighty challenge. Am sure the population density (or rather traveller's density) is much higher in metros globally and there are systems that handle thousands of people in a given time efficiently than ours.

Originally Posted by dileepcm

First of all wow!! this is job extremely well done. What a write up!

Thank you Your words are very motivating. I had mentioned the 30P rule in my first draft but removed it since it is not really a part of the road system. Glad that you mentioned it now. btw, I was a beneficiary too! But still I took the theory exam out of curiosity and that is when I started understanding the system. It is definitely an odd rule like Jeroen mentioned but luckily is going on well.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

It is an odd program. If anything it was cooked up to promote the Netherlands amongst certain other countries. The Netherlands had an “image problem” in the sense that it had a reputation of having ridiculous high income and other taxes.
Jeroen

I agree that it is a strange incentive!

I had the reverse reaction with the grant for bikes. In fact, my Dutch friends were shocked when I showed them my Dutch DL with complete Category A (all classes of bikes) just as a result of the translation.

Talking about taxes, can you shed some light on the taxation of the cars? Especially the tax difference between lease and buying a car. And also the tax slab for cars based on the emissions/fuel type/weight. It would be a great inclusion to this thread.

[dileepcm]

Originally Posted by vivee90

In fact, my Dutch friends were shocked when I showed them my Dutch DL with complete Category A (all classes of bikes) just as a result of the translation.

I was initially shocked to see the same in my license and I was really happy, but then when my wife did her exchange after a year or so, she received a tractor license as well though I am not sure how or what factor really caused it!! Couldn't be shocked more. She then went for a couple of driving lessons with a local driving school and the instructor could not believe that she got a tractor license. She had to really show him the license to make him believe. Certain things are very strange here!

[Uprasenjit]

I have stayed in Netherlands for few months and I am amazed how they have designed the cycle tracks. Almost every place is reachable on cycle.

[kraft.wagen]

Originally Posted by vinair

Have to agree to this! I was in Barlo and stayed in one of the best hotels (sandton chateau de raay) around! Was truly amazed to see the importance given to cycling with dedicated lanes and some wonderful landscapes!

What are the odds of this happening. I used to stay at the same place for a few months.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

It is an odd program. If anything it was cooked up to promote the Netherlands amongst certain other countries. The Netherlands had an “image problem” in the sense that it had a reputation of having ridiculous high income and other taxes.

Odd program indeed(as much I did benefit from it), I strongly feel they should make the exchange a bit more stringent with a mandatory theory or driving class. Especially since the rules are different here compared to India or even USA. Luckily my Dutch colleague handed me the booklet to read the rules and signboards.