Germany to cancel registration of unfixed dieselgate cars

blackwasp · 17th August 2018, 19:20

The motor transport authority of Germany has ordered people who have not yet fixed their cars affected by the dieselgate emissions scandal to either fix them or gear up for having their registrations cancelled. According to a media report, the authorities in Munich and Hamburg have already cancelled the registrations of multiple Volkswagen and Audi cars.

It has been reported that some users have noticed a 10 percent decrease in performance post the fix. Hence, many of them are reluctant to hand over their cars to the company to have them fixed. Unlike the USA, there have been no fines or buyback schemes in Europe. The German authorities have claimed that 95% of the 2.46 million affected vehicles have been fixed.

In 2015, Volkswagen admitted to the use of a software for cheating in emission tests. At present, the CEO of Audi, ex-CEO of Volkswagen and head of powertrain of Porsche have been arrested in relation to this scandal.

Germany to cancel registration of unfixed dieselgate cars-vw2.jpg

Source: Truth about Cars

Link to the Team-BHP News

CrAzY dRiVeR · 17th August 2018, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackwasp

It has been reported that some users have noticed a 10 percent decrease in performance post the fix. Hence, many of them are reluctant to hand over their cars to the company to have them fixed.

Same case with India as well. Many have not got the fix applied due to this reason.

Will India follow German footsteps? Don't see it happening anytime soon, there's just way too much administration overload required in the a Indian context.

Rahul Bhalgat · 17th August 2018, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackwasp

The motor transport authority of Germany has ordered people who have not yet fixed their cars affected by the dieselgate emissions scandal to either fix them or gear up for having their registrations cancelled. According to a media report, the authorities in Munich and Hamburg have already cancelled the registrations of multiple Volkswagen and Audi cars.

Interesting information, thanks for posting this.

At whose expenses are these cars fixed? I hope that the innocent car buyers do not bear the cost of fixing.

In India, we may persue the owners to get these fixed, if VW is paying for it. But when some (or many) of our public vehicles (run by the Govt. bodies) are emitting beyond limits due to poor maintenance, let us not be harsh to the private buyers.

typlo · 17th August 2018, 22:25

I feel that Germany has been quite tolerant towards the situation. They should have taken Volkswagen down much earlier.

Can't expect the same back home though. Just look at those decade-old trucks and buses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

At whose expenses are these cars fixed? I hope that the innocent car buyers do not bear the cost of fixing.

I highly doubt that customers bear expenses for the 'fix' that reduces the car performance. It is just a recall on a massive scale, the manufacturer fixes it for free (and to comply with the law and fend off potential lawsuits).

rpunwani · 18th August 2018, 09:06

Interesting to see what stand the owners of such VW cars will take.

I too have a VW Passat affected by the dieselgate. My logic for not doing the software upgrade is as follows:-

VW has sold me a car with 125 kW power & 350 Nm of torque.
It has been established that after the upgrade, the engine looses power/torque.
VW says that even without the upgrade, the engine meets BS IV emission standards
All that VW is offering is a measly Rs. 1,100/- cleaning kit.

The Service Centre has been asking me to have the upgrade done, I have asked them to get a letter from VW stating that the engine power/torque post upgrade will remain unchanged. They have not been able to get this letter

Had VW offered a substantial compensation, I would have got the upgrade done. After all, they have cheated the public and deserve to be penalised.

Hope India does not follow suit

BeantownThinker · 18th August 2018, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpunwani

The Service Centre has been asking me to have the upgrade done, I have asked them to get a letter from VW stating that the engine power/torque post upgrade will remain unchanged.

Just curious.

What stops them from applying the "fix" when you give your car for service? Can they not apply it then without your knowledge or consent? If you do not give your car for service, can they not void the warranty stating "not serviced at authorised center"?

How will the people in Germany get around this, I wonder.

bharath79 · 18th August 2018, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpunwani

The Service Centre has been asking me to have the upgrade done, I have asked them to get a letter from VW stating that the engine power/torque post upgrade will remain unchanged. They have not been able to get this letter

Had VW offered a substantial compensation, I would have got the upgrade done. After all, they have cheated the public and deserve to be penalised.

Hope India does not follow suit

The next time you open a job card at an official VW service center you may have to get this done. I managed to avoid it for more than a year but not the last time. VW is under pressure to show the progress of this activity.

Regards
Bharath

anjan_c2007 · 19th August 2018, 23:35

The poor and hapless customers have been put to a disadvantage by the decision to scrap registrations of such "diesel gate" cars. The company used cheat software for emissions, to meet the desired expectations of the environment laws. Unsuspecting buyers bought the cars with such emission control fitments and the corresponding rated capacity and power / torque output of the engines.

As reported, the engine performances have dwindled after corrective measures were taken by the company dealerships with the respective cars. The customer has been hit for no fault of his.

Germany does not have very stringent consumer laws, nowhere at par with that of the U.S. If the numbers are a few millions (2.46 million as reported that's only 95 % of the total) it would have been appreciated if their Parliament (Bundestag) enacted a law to bail out all the affected consumers. The Parliament could have made provisions to levy a huge fine on the companies and could have enforced an optional buyback scheme.

bharath79 · 20th August 2018, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Unsuspecting buyers bought the cars with such emission control fitments and the corresponding rated capacity and power / torque output of the engines.

As reported, the engine performances have dwindled after corrective measures were taken by the company dealerships with the respective cars. The customer has been hit for no fault of his.

Every problem seems to have a solution these days. ECU remapping seems to be the flavour of the season at least in the context of VW cars. It seems to restore and in some cases better the car performance than the stock configuration.

VW is still worth it though the customisation will cost a bit.

Regards
Bharath

roy_libran · 20th August 2018, 09:21

Far removed from all the "individualistic" pleas of losing the performance levels that one has apparently paid for, in the interest of lesser emissions, there is another perspective, and that is to accept it as a loss/a sacrifice in the interest of the environment, and voluntarily accept the downgrade.

Losses happen in life in various ways, and we do have to accept the same to a degree, especially when the benefit is far more important than the loss. Yes you have been misled, and VAG should be made to pay even more for that. But, what about your own impact now???

And for those who can't rise above such petty considerations, such legislation is welcome, and I really hope that this is emulated in India as well.

rpunwani · 20th August 2018, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharath79

The next time you open a job card at an official VW service center you may have to get this done. I managed to avoid it for more than a year but not the last time. VW is under pressure to show the progress of this activity.

Regards
Bharath

I have a good rapport with my SA. Till now I have been stating that I do not want the update. If I am forced, I will have to look at alternatives

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeantownThinker

Just curious.

What stops them from applying the "fix" when you give your car for service? Can they not apply it then without your knowledge or consent? If you do not give your car for service, can they not void the warranty stating "not serviced at authorised center"?

How will the people in Germany get around this, I wonder.

They can apply the fix only when they connect the laptop to the car. I usually remain at the service station, so I will know when they connect the laptop. Since my car is out of warranty, I may look at getting it serviced elsewhere, if the need arises.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Far removed from all the "individualistic" pleas of losing the performance levels that one has apparently paid for, in the interest of lesser emissions, there is another perspective, and that is to accept it as a loss/a sacrifice in the interest of the environment, and voluntarily accept the downgrade.

Losses happen in life in various ways, and we do have to accept the same to a degree, especially when the benefit is far more important than the loss. Yes you have been misled, and VAG should be made to pay even more for that. But, what about your own impact now???

And for those who can't rise above such petty considerations, such legislation is welcome, and I really hope that this is emulated in India as well.

As stated before, I am happy to get the software update; if the compensation is adequate. Also, VW has stated that even without the fix, it meets BS IV standards. In terms of environmental impact, I am at par with most owners. So I don't see any benefit in getting the upgrade done.

bhavik.1991 · 20th August 2018, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharath79

The next time you open a job card at an official VW service center you may have to get this done. I managed to avoid it for more than a year but not the last time. VW is under pressure to show the progress of this activity.

Regards
Bharath

I had asked my SA not to 'update' software during service of my Jetta, soon after the dieselgate fix was announced for India.

Somehow, it already shows updated in their database (my friend got it checked while arguing with his SA that fix is not mandatory). His SA said that it was updated on xx date, the date was after one week of the service & the car was with me on that day. Also, I did not notice any performance degrade or knock sound after the service. My SA also confirmed after the service that it was not updated.

17th August 2018, 19:20	#1
blackwasp Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 2,974 Thanked: 26,325 Times View My Garage	Germany to cancel registration of unfixed dieselgate cars The motor transport authority of Germany has ordered people who have not yet fixed their cars affected by the dieselgate emissions scandal to either fix them or gear up for having their registrations cancelled. According to a media report, the authorities in Munich and Hamburg have already cancelled the registrations of multiple Volkswagen and Audi cars. It has been reported that some users have noticed a 10 percent decrease in performance post the fix. Hence, many of them are reluctant to hand over their cars to the company to have them fixed. Unlike the USA, there have been no fines or buyback schemes in Europe. The German authorities have claimed that 95% of the 2.46 million affected vehicles have been fixed. In 2015, Volkswagen admitted to the use of a software for cheating in emission tests. At present, the CEO of Audi, ex-CEO of Volkswagen and head of powertrain of Porsche have been arrested in relation to this scandal. Source: Truth about Cars Link to the Team-BHP News Last edited by blackwasp : 17th August 2018 at 19:24.
	(11) Thanks

18th August 2018, 09:06	#5
rpunwani BHPian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mumbai Posts: 548 Thanked: 728 Times	Re: Germany to cancel registration of unfixed dieselgate cars Interesting to see what stand the owners of such VW cars will take. I too have a VW Passat affected by the dieselgate. My logic for not doing the software upgrade is as follows:- VW has sold me a car with 125 kW power & 350 Nm of torque. It has been established that after the upgrade, the engine looses power/torque. VW says that even without the upgrade, the engine meets BS IV emission standards All that VW is offering is a measly Rs. 1,100/- cleaning kit. The Service Centre has been asking me to have the upgrade done, I have asked them to get a letter from VW stating that the engine power/torque post upgrade will remain unchanged. They have not been able to get this letter Had VW offered a substantial compensation, I would have got the upgrade done. After all, they have cheated the public and deserve to be penalised. Hope India does not follow suit
	(6) Thanks

19th August 2018, 23:35	#8
anjan_c2007 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: India Posts: 8,318 Thanked: 20,607 Times View My Garage	Re: Germany to cancel registration of unfixed dieselgate cars The poor and hapless customers have been put to a disadvantage by the decision to scrap registrations of such "diesel gate" cars. The company used cheat software for emissions, to meet the desired expectations of the environment laws. Unsuspecting buyers bought the cars with such emission control fitments and the corresponding rated capacity and power / torque output of the engines. As reported, the engine performances have dwindled after corrective measures were taken by the company dealerships with the respective cars. The customer has been hit for no fault of his. Germany does not have very stringent consumer laws, nowhere at par with that of the U.S. If the numbers are a few millions (2.46 million as reported that's only 95 % of the total) it would have been appreciated if their Parliament (Bundestag) enacted a law to bail out all the affected consumers. The Parliament could have made provisions to levy a huge fine on the companies and could have enforced an optional buyback scheme. Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 19th August 2018 at 23:49.
	() Thanks

20th August 2018, 09:21	#10
roy_libran Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: DNCR Posts: 1,643 Thanked: 3,456 Times View My Garage	Re: Germany to cancel registration of unfixed dieselgate cars Far removed from all the "individualistic" pleas of losing the performance levels that one has apparently paid for, in the interest of lesser emissions, there is another perspective, and that is to accept it as a loss/a sacrifice in the interest of the environment, and voluntarily accept the downgrade. Losses happen in life in various ways, and we do have to accept the same to a degree, especially when the benefit is far more important than the loss. Yes you have been misled, and VAG should be made to pay even more for that. But, what about your own impact now??? And for those who can't rise above such petty considerations, such legislation is welcome, and I really hope that this is emulated in India as well. Last edited by roy_libran : 20th August 2018 at 09:50.
	(3) Thanks