[faithless_1984]

Porche without a doubt (the pic of the carrera gt in the first page was enough for me to decide).!

[929RON]

I have driven a lot of Porsches, but nothing matches a Ferrari in terms of Entertainment.
Porsches are great handlers but not nearly as much fun, Except for the CGT which of course I cannot afford as of now.
I wont drive either for Daily, so Ferrari it is ! Have been eyeing the 360 Modenna for quite some time, might pick up a used one in a year if my stars shine even brighter.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Advocatus

I respectfully disagree. If memory serves me right, a Porsche CGT is quicker around most UK tracks than an Enzo - certainly quicker around the Autodrome. A stock 360 modena would not see which way a 996 GT3 went on most tracks. A 360 CS would again be an even contest depending on the track.

Quick search reveals a simple illustration through a recent article that can be found here: Fastest ever track test | Car Group Tests | Car Reviews | evo

The CGT absolutely spanks the Enzo by 1.30 seconds! - clearly an example of "better".

As for minus the passion? Drive a GT2. The thing will make grown men weep!

Disagree... if everything was to be decided on a simple roadtest then Enzo has already beaten CGT on topgear 1:19 vs 1:19.8.
The point here is not just the technical superiority, also factor in the excitement and thrills part. It may be, you get the thrill and excitement driving a GT2 but then lot of people think otherwise including some racers and senior test drivers. I go with them because i have never driven anything over 2400cc's.

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Disagree... if everything was to be decided on a simple roadtest then Enzo has already beaten CGT on topgear 1:19 vs 1:19.8.
The point here is not just the technical superiority, also factor in the excitement and thrills part. It may be, you get the thrill and excitement driving a GT2 but then lot of people think otherwise including some racers and senior test drivers. I go with them because i have never driven anything over 2400cc's.

Sorry, I think you are missing my point. While I agree with you that Ferraris can certainly be used everyday (F430 being perfect case in point), what I disagreed with is your statement:"Agreed a porsche is a sportscar that can be used daily but it can only be as good as ferrari on track not better, minus all the passion".

That statement is incorrect. Certain tracks favour different cars and a lot depends on the set up. The Top Gear track is a track that has been specifically designed to test oversteer and understeer as opposed to a stereotypical circuit built for racing. For every post you provide with an Enzo topping a CGT on one track, there will be a another showing a CGT proving the faster car on another circuit.

As I said in my earlier post, it depends what track and what car is involved. To generalise is foolish (no offence ). Porsches are as capable as Ferraris on track, and in some cases better too. Most famous case in point is the Porsche 917 v Ferrari 512 at LeMans. There is no bigger test than LeMans. Porsche took had a famous victory which is immortalised in the McQueen film.

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Disagree... if everything was to be decided on a simple roadtest then Enzo has already beaten CGT on topgear 1:19 vs 1:19.8.
The point here is not just the technical superiority, also factor in the excitement and thrills part. It may be, you get the thrill and excitement driving a GT2 but then lot of people think otherwise including some racers and senior test drivers. I go with them because i have never driven anything over 2400cc's.

Which racers and senior test drivers are you refering to out of interest? Time to get you in something over 2.4!

[Autophile]

Porsche 911's any day in Carrera S and GT3 disguise for me.

Never liked Ferrari's that much though they have good brand recall / snob value.

Only Ferrari's appealed to me were F355 and 575 Maranello, definitely not the new ones 612, 599, 430.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Advocatus

For every post you provide with an Enzo topping a CGT on one track, there will be a another showing a CGT proving the faster car on another circuit.

Exactly.... I searched for Nurburgring laptime for ENZO, wasn't able to find it, though its there for the CGT.

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Exactly.... I searched for Nurburgring laptime for ENZO, wasn't able to find it, though its there for the CGT.

Good, glad you agree. They are both immensely capable cars. While both marques are at the very top of the tree - any comparison is akin to apples and oranges if left at generalities.

FYI, there was an unofficial test last year at the 'Ring starring a CGT, Enzo and SLR. The CGT finished a fair bit ahead ahead of the Enzo, with the Benz a distant third.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Advocatus

A lot of people here seem to be under the misconception that Ferraris tend to breakdown without a moment's notice. There is a lot of bad press out there (akin to the myth that all TVR's smell of glue and other similar nonsense), some it deserved but most of it not - the owners don't agree with it most of the time.

Referring only to cars post the 360 Modena and with emphasis on Ferrari's current stable - the quote above: "a Ferrari would break down in half the time" is erroneous at best. I would assume the writer means 200 kmph? It would have to be - I know of only one stock production Porsche (being the Carrera GT) that will touch 200 mph.

200 kmph is a mere 125 mph. I have been fortunate to driven and passengered a number of F-cars, and I can assure you that at 125mph a Ferrari is just beginning to get into its stride. The rev counter isn't anywhere near the red. I have seen various F-cars perform for hours at these speeds without a hint of trouble. On the other side of the coin, I have also spent hours (unfortunately) in traffic in cars equipped with f1 boxes and cars with manual boxes. While the f1 cars tend to need new clutches if used in traffic too much, they are completely reliable as a general rule of thumb.

@Advocatus : The first post is made in terms of relativity i.e By saying the Porsche is more reliable is just that. It does NOT mean that the Ferrari is unreliable......but implies that the Porsche is MORE reliable. Similarly on the image front, surely the Porsche does not lack image. Its only lesser, relative to the Ferrari.

You may have lovely roads in the UK, but keep in mind that this is on an Indian car forum. Our country does not necessarily have the same level of road infrastructure (far from it actually). I have had the opportunity to interact with a good number of supercar owners in India and Porsche trumped the Ferrari (and most other supercar brands) in ownership experience. Porsches are a LOT more driveable here, do not overheat in bumper-to-bumper traffic, take the bad roads much better and have splendid manufacturer support. Ferraris dont take our terrain too well.

Practicality also includes having a good service backup. Compared to Ferrari which have appointment absolute nincompoops as their Indian representatives.

I also respect what both the brands stand for....and have yet to make a decision in the poll.

[driftech]

Porche is best no doubt.
A good mixture of power and styling.

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by GTO

@Advocatus : The first post is made in terms of relativity i.e By saying the Porsche is more reliable is just that. It does NOT mean that the Ferrari is unreliable......but implies that the Porsche is MORE reliable. Similarly on the image front, surely the Porsche does not lack image. Its only lesser, relative to the Ferrari.

You may have lovely roads in the UK, but keep in mind that this is on an Indian car forum. Our country does not necessarily have the same level of road infrastructure (far from it actually). I have had the opportunity to interact with a good number of supercar owners in India and Porsche trumped the Ferrari (and most other supercar brands) in ownership experience. Porsches are a LOT more driveable here, do not overheat in bumper-to-bumper traffic, take the bad roads much better and have splendid manufacturer support. Ferraris dont take our terrain too well.

Practicality also includes having a good service backup. Compared to Ferrari which have appointment absolute nincompoops as their Indian representatives.

I also respect what both the brands stand for....and have yet to make a decision in the poll.

Fair enough, though your original post didn't make that clear.

Begs the question as to why people would buy cars with highly tuned engines, low ground clearance and 160 mph + top speed, when clearly there is not much scope for use. As a true enthusiast I would rather not have a wonderful machine, than have one and never be able to use even a tenth of its potential. Seems a waste of a great piece of automotive art.

Having spent some time in India, the roads are not something I would subject my peformance cars to. You can't drive at a 100 mph with any real degree of safety, because that involves trusting the road surface as reaction times need to be much faster. A sudden pothole on a fast bend will either result in an off or a broken axle. Hopefully this is something the govt will address in time.

[GTO]

Begs the question as to why people would buy cars with highly tuned engines, low ground clearance and 160 mph + top speed, when clearly there is not much scope for use. As a true enthusiast I would rather not have a wonderful machine, than have one and never be able to use even a tenth of its potential. Seems a waste of a great piece of automotive art.

Well, there are certainly ways in which you can let her stretch her legs. For instance, in Mumbai there is the expressway. I know of a Ferrari owner who has a holiday home close to the expressway and keeps his Ferrari parked out there itself. Rips her on the 90 km stretch and then comes back to bombay in a regular sedan. In the south, track days are gaining huge popularity now.....so hopefully we should see supercars taking this opportunity in the near future.

There are plentiful more opportunities but they are certainly limited. Just like in the States where strict radar guns restrict 'Vettes to 80mph. If and when I own a sports car, she will come out of the garage only at night.

[scooby05]

Originally Posted by GTO

Well, there are certainly ways in which you can let her stretch her legs. For instance, in Mumbai there is the expressway. I know of a Ferrari owner who has a holiday home close to the expressway and keeps his Ferrari parked out there itself. Rips her on the 90 km stretch and then comes back to bombay in a regular sedan. In the south, track days are gaining huge popularity now.....so hopefully we should see supercars taking this opportunity in the near future.

There are plentiful more opportunities but they are certainly limited. Just like in the States where strict radar guns restrict 'Vettes to 80mph. If and when I own a sports car, she will come out of the garage only at night.

Well, do we agree that:
1]all the power of the supercars is just for the spurts and overtaking, and the thrill thereof.
2]nobody anywhere in the world really drives them beyond say 200/210kmph, again except for small spurts, since its illegal and cameras are effective everywhere.or for drags and races.
3]has anyone put the cruise control on at 250kmph and cruised along an expressway/autobahn?
4]we are all car freaks and so should appreciate everything about Supercars, instead of bitching how they are not suitable for India.
Beyond a point what does a person work for?-- to be able to spend on these Toys na!! and get the thrills from them!! besides the pride of owning one!!
Lets be frank and have a poll, asking how many people on this forum would not LOVE to own a Supercar had they got it for a gift?? so all the discussion circles around having to spend the Money to own one, and since that Money is Scarce, supercars are not worth it for Indian roads!!
Sorry for this statement.

[Dippy]

Originally Posted by scooby05

Well, do we agree that:
1]all the power of the supercars is just for the spurts and overtaking, and the thrill thereof.
2]nobody anywhere in the world really drives them beyond say 200/210kmph, again except for small spurts, since its illegal and cameras are effective everywhere.or for drags and races.
3]has anyone put the cruise control on at 250kmph and cruised along an expressway/autobahn?
4]we are all car freaks and so should appreciate everything about Supercars, instead of bitching how they are not suitable for India.
Beyond a point what does a person work for?-- to be able to spend on these Toys na!! and get the thrills from them!! besides the pride of owning one!!
Lets be frank and have a poll, asking how many people on this forum would not LOVE to own a Supercar had they got it for a gift?? so all the discussion circles around having to spend the Money to own one, and since that Money is Scarce, supercars are not worth it for Indian roads!!
Sorry for this statement.

Very well put Scooby. Couldnt have put it better myself.... with you on that. The Point is not about Ferraris and Porsches. Its about Supercars. I am a Ferrari lover but at the same time i have full respect for the marque from Germany. Even though I'd love to own a Ferrari someday, I would still be very happy if I managed to own a Porsche or for that matter gifted one

This poll was just for choice. i am sure the Porsche lovers wouldnt mind a Ferrari for FREE if they got one

just my two paise

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by GTO

Well, there are certainly ways in which you can let her stretch her legs. For instance, in Mumbai there is the expressway. I know of a Ferrari owner who has a holiday home close to the expressway and keeps his Ferrari parked out there itself. Rips her on the 90 km stretch and then comes back to bombay in a regular sedan. In the south, track days are gaining huge popularity now.....so hopefully we should see supercars taking this opportunity in the near future.

There are plentiful more opportunities but they are certainly limited. Just like in the States where strict radar guns restrict 'Vettes to 80mph. If and when I own a sports car, she will come out of the garage only at night.

To each his own... Have travelled along the expressway (to Poona?) myself, doing that time and time again would get very boring! However, one can only make do with what one has. Good for him.

If you come to the UK, drop me a line - a visit to the Cotswalds or Scotland is must. I have done the same roads in Porsches, TVRs and Ferraris...outstanding.