[k_kumar]

Good to see some healthy discussion on an issue. Off late, I have grown very despondent seeing people's tendency to blame some nation, race or religion without any deliberation for anything untoward. We ain't any angels either. When we go shopping for chicken/mutton in local market, we see instances of cruelty there - the way birds/animals are killed, the way they are tied up/kept in cramped cages waiting for the same destiny they witness over and over. Do I feel sad about these poor souls? Yes, deeply. Do I stop eating meat? Hell no. While I do not condone cruelty on animals, I don't think humankind can do away with it either. What about using animals in bio-medical research? While taking medicine do we ever think for a moment that some animals suffered in the lab during development of the drug?

Now I'll get off the high horse and condemn using pigs for crash tests. This must be avoided as well-established alternative option of using dummies is also more scientific (don't know how they test impact on knees and feet using piggies). Awareness should be raised so that consumers can take informed decision on whether to buy products of such manufactures. Well, probably such awareness will also save more human lives as more and more of our fellow countrymen will come to know about the existence of crash tests or even vehicle-safety.

[Avenger_123]

Interesting read, am in aerospace and we use a live chicken or freshly killed ones to simulate bird crash test impact on aircraft structure.

In spite of having the latest simulations, and animal-free dummies the complex interaction of forces on muscle and bone mass and how it gets transferred to aircraft structures, especially windshields have been tough to prove with exact correlations. This causes the ever-cautious FAA/EASA/TCCA etc. to not accept anything other than a real test which involves structure being shot at with canon containing the birds.

I guess when it comes to human safety, animals will always be the guinea pigs quite literally !!

[Sasanka_Sanga]

This is seriously inhumane and yes there is a necessity to boycott Chinese cars. As an alternative to animal abuse, they can mimic humans/animals with impact sensors placed inside dummies and then take the values and analyze the possible damages that could happen to humans in case of crashes.

I don't think China will find it difficult to make impact sensors at a cheaper price and trust me this pragmatically works.

[sen2009]

The thing is that we are the sentinent species on this planet and will continue to remain so till some extinction level event hits us.

The human race did not evolve from fish, rats, monkeys or some such humble animal by being kind. We have been stronger or smarter or both in every conflict and hence achieved our position on the hierarchy. We have achieved superiority over these animals only by being able to exploit them. More capable we got at this, better control we could exert over our surroundings.

For example, we pushed all tigers into some parks and have claimed all land to ourselves. If it result in some environmental downside, that will be addressed without letting tigers out on city streets. I cannot imagine living in constant fear to being eaten by a tiger, because otherwise its inhuman!

Some of us love cats, dogs, birds and other animals and keep them for pets. Some others love them like children as well. They often get things messed up in the head. They feel like every animal on God's green earth are entitled to the love and care available to their Labrador. They also feel that if left to choose freely, all lions and tigers will treat us just like their pussycats do.

Unfortunately, that's not the case.

We exploit nature and by its extension plants and animals for our benefit. All that's being done for environment protection are being done for the same purpose, our benefit.


So, unless one can find something which will cause misery to mankind in future (like depleting ozone layer or reducing oxygen percentage in air or some such), putting pigs in cars doesn't seem to be wrong.

Our inhumane treatment of animals is what separated human from animal. One cannot argue if this is justified as the concept of justice does not apply here. This is how it is, this is how its going to be for all eternity. Here on earth and later on any other planet we may settle upon.

[RMN]

Im glad there are other members who see the hypocrisy in this. Most of the members here might be typing all this right after a heavy non-veg meal.

Only reason to boycott would be cause how unscientific this test is!

[pseudo_coder]

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[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by Avenger_123

Interesting read, am in aerospace and we use a live chicken or freshly killed ones to simulate bird crash test impact on aircraft structure.

This is very true. Any biological replication cannot be done using a few sensors. Anyone can design a dummy with a few sensors to measure impact but that won't reflect the reality of the impact on flesh/muscle/organs.

Any medicine we use is the result of experiments performed on a few thousand (at least) rats, monkeys and guinea pigs. Animal testing and sacrifice is common almost everywhere, and we are being selective in the criticism of the Chinese using pigs. What matters is using a humane way to numb the animals, usually by euthanizing or stunning them.

In this case, if dead pigs help save a few human lives and improve crash ratings, I don't see why people who want affordable 5 star rated cars are talking of a Chinese product boycott.

There are many other reasons to not use their products, but this is the least of them. Even the non-critical dietary supplements sold in India are tested on animals.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by Avenger_123

Interesting read, am in aerospace and we use a live chicken or freshly killed ones to simulate bird crash test impact on aircraft structure.

Perfectly understandable. You have to test for bird hits. Because there's a very high probability of a bird hit to the fuselage or even the engines during flight. Its a question of safety of hundreds of passengers vs a few dead (and thawed) or living birds. I'd prefer dead & thawed for obvious reasons. But again, this is a critical safety test and the use of animals is understandable. Just as animal testing for cosmetics & medicines is understandable (we've come a long way from 50 years back, in terms of protocols to ensure no unnecessary pain is caused to animals in laboratory testing conditions - though some countries *cough* shirk regulations).

What I don't understand is why cars need to be tested for crashes when driven by pigs specifically. If not (and last I checked pigs don't drive), dummies should be used. No justifications for using live pigs here. None at all.

[chaturgaurav]

I think the forum is almost equally divided over the use of animals for testing, noticed that people who are concerned about use of animal are not averse to eating them (vegetarians and vegans not included). While I am all for non-animal-based testing, but even I think eating pig as a bacon or vindaloo is no different from using them in car testing. Killing, one way or the other, remains a cruel act and equally painful too. Someone even mentioned exploitation of animals without being cruel. It is sad that even when sounding concerned, exploitation of animals/ resources remains top priority. Exploitation, howsoever it is done, is as cruel as anything else and is not justifiable.

The concern shown in the forum remains a hypocrisy in my eyes, till we stop exploiting other species in any way.

[jagzrk]

This is clearly a moral dilemma. If killing hundreds of pigs to extract a minimal amount of some exclusive protein to save your family member from a rare disease (1 in 100 million) is possible, I do not think any of the member here would even hesitate. But the vast majority would label it cruel and down-right disgusting because this is rare disease and mainly because it's not their family member.

There are way more serious issues of animal cruelty. Old cattle who are other-wise worshiped are left to die on public roads while no one bats an eyelid. Commercial milk available in packets is extracted in more cruel ways and I do not think many here unless privileged spend a few hundreds to get a litre of pure organic grass fed cow's milk. Morality it seems is subjective as far as it allows "your own" (and mine) convenience. That is how humans are I guess.

We are conditioned more towards the western cultural benchmark hence the hatred towards Chinese using a dozen pigs for crash tests which apparently the western countries did a couple of decades ago. Personally, I would err on the side of some testing is better than no testing, however remotely scientific it may be.

[digitalnirvana]

And now this - Chinese Theme Park Faces Backlash For Forcing Pig To Bungee Jump

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qOWHNL...ture=emb_title

Pathetic way to torment a sentient animal.