[blackwasp]

The Japanese government is considering a ban on new petrol and diesel cars by mid-2030.

Instead of conventional combustion engine cars, hybrid and electric vehicles would be promoted. All new vehicles would be required to be electrified. With this, the share of electric cars in Japan is expected to increase to 55% by 2030.

The move comes as part of the Japanese Prime Minister’s pledge to reduce carbon emissions to zero by 2050. The country’s industry minister will be releasing a target date by the end of this year.

Last month, the United Kingdom also advanced the petrol and diesel fuel ban to 2030. Japan, China and South Korea have also announced targets to achieve net carbon emissions.



Source

Link to the Team-BHP News

[giri1.8]

Best way to get rid of something, is to introduce something better, this whole ban thing is kind of annoying and forceful IMO.

Let electric cars mature, people will automatically switch to them.

[RSR]

Good for Japan! In fact, considering the minuscule number of diesel cars in that country, they could easily put a ban on the manufacture of cars that use dirty diesel in 2025 itself, or even before that.

Finally, the Japanese have realised that they're going nowhere with promoting hydrogen as a fuel for cars. Japanese carmakers were on the verge of being left behind in electric technology thanks to promoting hydrogen as the fuel of the future. Hydrogen does have its place as an automobile fuel, but only for long haul trucks and buses. For everything else, it going to be electric all the way!

This decision is something that was made as much (or perhaps, more) for the sake of Japanese carmakers as it was for environmental reasons. With some Western European countries and South Korea all on the verge of deciding to phase out ICE cars by the next decade, Japan had no other choice. They simply had to follow suit, or the Japanese car manufacturers would get left behind!

I think we are coming to the end of further development of the good old internal combustion engines for cars, especially those that run on dirty diesel. In future, any research and development done on internal combustion engines would be related to making them work well alongside electric motors, such as petrol engines that run on the efficient Atkinson cycle etc.

[jagzrk]

I'm just wondering. With our country's largest car maker dependent on designs from its parent in Japan and then stripping them of safety to make them India specific and "adhering to all safety norms and practices laid out by the government in India", won't there be literally potential fireballs travelling through our roads a decade later?

Also what about battery tech? The core tech is essentially 50 years old with recent advances only bettering the core tech but still with a LOT of limitations. Say we get over the range and charging time problem (which we can't specifically for lithium based batteries) is there enough lithium reserves in the world to power every single electric car?

Quote From an article:
"Even though 365 years of reserve supply sounds very comforting, the point of the EV and stationary storage revolutions is that current demand will shoot up, way up, if these revolutions do happen. The 100 Gigafactories scenario could come true. And if that happens, the 365-year supply would be less than a 17-year supply (13.5 million tons of reserves divided by 800,000 = 16.9 years)."

Source: https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...-ion-battery-m

I'm all in for electric cars. But the battery tech IMHO is ancient, impractical and potentially more polluting and hazardous than petroleum.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by jagzrk

is there enough lithium reserves in the world to power every single electric car?

Quote From an article:
"Even though 365 years of reserve supply sounds very comforting, the point of the EV and stationary storage revolutions is that current demand will shoot up, way up, if these revolutions do happen. The 100 Gigafactories scenario could come true. And if that happens, the 365-year supply would be less than a 17-year supply (13.5 million tons of reserves divided by 800,000 = 16.9 years)."

But the battery tech IMHO is ancient, impractical and potentially more polluting and hazardous than petroleum.

Yes, there is enough lithium reserves. We are yet to discover more reserves, the world never needed this much of lithium, now that we need massive amounts of lithium we are also exploring for new lithium mines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium?wprov=sfla1

According to the above article we have more than 80 million metric tons of known lithium mines. From the above calculation, in this scenario the lithium is enough for 100 years.

With latest developments in battery tech it's no more ancient, we are also seeing cell phones with 3-4 times battery capacity compared to just 6 years back phones.

Batteries are not polluting, agreed they require more resources to manufacture but they are 100% recyclable. Lithium and other minerals can be extracted from old batteries, unlike fossil fuels which are burnt. Unlike your phone battery an EV battery weighs 100s of kilos, you just don't throw them into landfills, you sell them to recyclers or use it for 2nd life grid storage applications.

[landcruiser123]

Oh man, I hope India prepares well enough before announcing such a ban.

Civic authorities & private companies can't exactly be held accountable in India - so I can't imagine people being stranded because EV chargers weren't working.

Originally Posted by giri1.8

Best way to get rid of something, is to introduce something better, this whole ban thing is kind of annoying and forceful IMO.

Unfortunately, we've reached a stage where we have to swallow the bitter pill. Only new cars sold will be 100% electric. Old IC engine cars will survive for a few years.

The oil & auto lobby is very strong. So, banning IC engines in this climate crisis is the way to go IMHO. We haven't banned cigarettes as the tobacco lobby is also very strong. But why? Banning them would create an illegal economy and reduce tax revenues for governments.

[vinya_jag]

When Covid began, people stopped coming to office, all at once. Video conference, became a good to have to a must have. Our daily peaks went 4x, and daily traffic load went 8x. We were churning out new datacenters by the day, just to wake up and see that they were consumed in 12 hours. Customers were okay with lower resolutions, but wanted availability. We were playing tricks on production servers. Im sure, other providers were doing the same.
This went on for almost a month. There were issues, fixes each day, countless upgrades, but the entire process was so accelerated, that we were able to pull off a couple of years worth effort in 2 months.

This situation also reminds me of the Dark Knight "Kill the Batman"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_XHjqABQQA

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Oh man, I hope India prepares well enough before announcing such a ban.

Civic authorities & private companies can't exactly be held accountable in India - so I can't imagine people being stranded because EV chargers weren't working.
.

One fine evening at 8PM, we will be asked to standby for a nationwide announcement. "Mitron.."

[pkulkarni.2106]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

One fine evening at 8PM, we will be asked to standby for a nationwide announcement. "Mitron.."

Even I do fear it, but be assured it won't happen in this manner.
The reason being the tax the government gets from the sale of petrol & diesel is quite considerable.

If the government was to ban the vehicles so abruptly, it has to let go of the tax as well, right?

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by pkulkarni.2106

Even I do fear it, but be assured it won't happen in this manner.
The reason being the tax the government gets from the sale of petrol & diesel is quite considerable.

If the government was to ban the vehicles so abruptly, it has to let go of the tax as well, right?

Well, at that point of time the government can impose GST on electrical vehicle recharging. Leave it to the bureaucrats to be creative in this regard. They will never run out of options to ek out revenue for the exchequer.

[ph03n!x]

And so it begins - the generation that drove an internal combustion engine is here, gentlemen - and you are it. Don't we all feel like Dinosaurs already - ready to refurbish the earth with the oil we depleted?!

[Carpainter]

Well I believe this is good news for India because our market is dominated by Japanese automakers and we consider them reliable in the long run too. So India can only truly appreciate and trust EVs if folks at Toyota, Suzuki, Honda etc. build them and bring them here unlike a halo product from Merc or some Chinese car companies. Of course making EVs mainstream and building infrastructure for it is a different debate altogether and I think we have a separate thread for that.

[ramnaresh_2000]

I think instead of banning ICE vehicles, it is bettter to provide insane subsidies to EV's. I read somewhere that Renault EV's are almost free of cost with the amount of subsidies provided in some European countries by their government. It is a good case study for other countries.

Also provide subsidies to convert existing ICE to EV's with some government approved kits? This way atleast the metals and plastics in the ICE vehicle are recycled properly without much waste.

[Maedhros]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

Best way to get rid of something, is to introduce something better, this whole ban thing is kind of annoying and forceful IMO.

Let electric cars mature, people will automatically switch to them.

Couldn't agree more
Give me an EV with decent range and the ability to recharge anywhere and I'll gladly leave my IC engine car. Also, some kind of incentive, like a govt. grant, to nudge people towards EVs wouldn't hurt.

[Breathe2drive]

Originally Posted by Carpainter

Well I believe this is good news for India because our market is dominated by Japanese automakers and we consider them reliable in the long run too. So India can only truly appreciate and trust EVs if folks at Toyota, Suzuki, Honda etc. build them and bring them here unlike a halo product from Merc or some Chinese car companies. Of course making EVs mainstream and building infrastructure for it is a different debate altogether and I think we have a separate thread for that.

Completely agree with Carpainter that we have a soft corner for Japanese cars, and we would benefit if brands like Suzuki, Honda and Toyota focus on EVs.
We all know that EVs are the future and we're eagerly waiting for some fun to drive affordable EVs in our country.