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-   -   Dangerous vehicles that gained reputations as "widow-makers" (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/international-automotive-scene/237340-dangerous-vehicles-gained-reputations-widow-makers-4.html)

When reasoned properly, any car / every vehicle has the potential to be a widow-maker or a widower-maker. I don't see any particular car/vehicle that stands out as though it befits any 'honorary' mention here.

Please bear in mind, such 'fancy' use of terms to coin another human being's tragedy or loss is by no means fun to read and is despicable in my opinion.

Instead these vehicles could be ranked on its safety / protection parameters and then evaluated, which atleast makes or creates some sense of awareness.

Murders are never glorified, neither are murderers nor their weapons.

It's really surprising to see so many automotive greats are getting a bad name. I personally won't blame the vehicles as I love them all. It's always wise to know a thing or a two about the vehicles before we head out. Forget automobiles anything we undertake should be analyzed properly before hand. Some of the vehicles mentioned are adored by the enthusiast all over the world, the crashes often are human errors. We humans get too carried away and end up in tricky scenarios and blame the poor vehicles. We either get over whelmed by the vehicles or under estimate their capabilities and eventually loose the plot. I know it well as I learnt it the hard way and always blame it on me rather blaming my ride or some else. It's always in our hands till we let it go.

That's the best RE engine ever made with minimal vibration and superb pull let down by its handling and the risk of pillion rider falling under hard acceleration. Try a fast turn and you will know what I mean. In this thread for all the wrong reasons but this bike has been involved in many crashes as its power doesnt match its handling.

[quote=neil.jericho;5071918]Here is an example of a motorcycle that was genuinely thought to be a widow maker and feared when it was launched in 1997 - the Suzuki TL1000S.

This is a genuine Widow maker, especially the first year 1997 TL1000S as it had an abrupt power delivery with a flawed rear rotary damper. In our less than perfect Indian roads I have had many heart in mouth situation riding the TLs. The engine was one of the best VTwin motor ever made blessed with character and arm wrenching pull...

It is an incredible motorcycle and a sure future classic...wish I had held on to it.

Attached are pics of my TL1000s, I would get her back in a heartbeat if I could.

Allow me to present the OG Widowmaker.

That's right kids, it's Mercedes-Benz's postwar miracle, the 300 SL. Called the Widowmaker because of all the rich, (suddenly) single women it left behind, you and me know it better as the Gullwing Mercedes.

The coupe we all love had a suspension issue where it could break traction in high speed corners and could send backwards into weeds (or the nearest tree) at 170mph. Also, if you'd been unfortunate enough to roll it, you couldn't get out because of the roof-mounted door hinges.
On the roadster that followed the coupe, they utilized the suspension geometry from the Mercedes W196 F1 car solved this, but the car still retained its' Widowmaker moniker.

There have been many bikes with the title "Widow maker" from each generation. When I was a teen, there was the very much desired and feared Honda Fireblade CBR 900RR which went by that moniker.

Agreed. It doesn't end there. RTOs also take blame for the poorly maintained commercial vehicles on road and accidents thereof. Unlike private vehicles, commercial vehicles need FC renewed every year after the first 2 years. And more than one Uber driver has mentioned that the key thing the inspector looks for is the new exterior paint, so hey you can have no working brakes but you'll be run over by a shiny taxi :disappointed

Doug just now discussed why Carrera GT is easy to loose control in (around the 8 minute mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbUF...DeMuroVerified

"Widowmaker" moniker is applied to very fast vehicles, not necessarily because they are unsafe, but because they can kill an inexperienced, unskilled driver.

The "original" widowmaker was the first Porsche 911 Turbo of the late 1970s, with its vicious oversteer.

As a teenager / young man in the India of 1980s, I could witness firsthand our own widowmaker - the Rajdoot RD350: released in time for Asiad 82, an absolute dream bike for all of us petrolheads, but sadly, many young lives were lost due to their own actions.

Decades later, I still remember my first ride in the RD350 as the pillion of a fast, skilled rider - how the rest of the traffic became insignificant, how overtaking manoeuvres I wouldn't dream of even in a Yezdi became insignificant actions.

I knew of a few young rich kids (teenagers) whose exuberance in the RD350 was sadly no match for their skills. Tragic loss of young lives.

Whenever there is a man machine combination, the Man behind the Machine makes all the difference. A stable mind will know the limitations of the machine and will use it accordingly. The term 'widowmaker'will be used whenever there is a negative outcome. E.g The MiG 21 is also called a widowmaker but Wg Cdr Abhinandan took down a F-16 while flying it.

The 90's kids would remember the infamous Suzuki Shogun which gained such reputation. It could be because of the customer demographics that it attracted- the young and the careless. IMO, it looked dangerous too

It was a sailors' term for the bowsprit --- the spar projecting from a prow of a sailing vessel. This probably precedes the medical usage: I'd suspect it pre-dates the medical knowledge.

Wouldn't be surprised though, if every profession or pastime with some dangers had its very own "widowmakers."

And still he does.. To impress.. That's what drives all fast (and mostly reckless though not all) drivers.. The intent to impress - those in the car with them as well as those outside on the roads..

And till man had ego and a somewhat capable machine to do his bidding, he will continue to speed, irrespective of his own capabilities. In most cases people mistake the capabilities of the machine as that of their own leading to the accidents.

I'm late to this party but let me quickly point out that there is no such statistic on fatal motorcycle accidents in India. This means you are entering libel territory by throwing this fake figure around. KTM can (and actually HAS) lawyered up and threatened to take people to court for saying stuff like this, I've seen it happen myself on Facebook groups years ago. Internet commenters were sent legal notices from KTM lawyers. It's happened more than once just based on my personal experience, so it's safe to say this is something they do often. I'm just pointing out what I saw, I don't work for KTM or anything like that.

Anyway, like many others here, I disagree that the Duke counts as a widowmaker. To me, a widowmaker is a machine that has enough power to get you into trouble, but won't help you get out of it. Like most muscle cars, or bikes that produce insane power but don't have the chassis, tires, brakes, ABS etc to control all that power when it goes out of hand.

The Duke (and really most KTMs) come absolutely loaded with safety gizmos and features, most of which the Indian market never even asked for. To list just a few: best-in-class super sticky Metzeler tires paired with the largest disc brakes in class, and on top of that, ABS (first single-channel, now dual channel). Slipper clutch so that if you downshift by mistake at speed, the bike won't end up in a tree. Light weight and superior handling and a stiff chassis so you can really wrestle it with confidence even if you're a brand new rider. These are all features that literally nobody asked for, yet KTM insisted on adding them as standard; i.e. you couldn't get a KTM 390 without ABS even if you asked them for one, like they weren't optional.

Yes, KTMs have a reputation, but that's more to do with their attractive low price and the inexperienced young guys that buy them to show off to their college friends. This used to happen with Pulsars and Karizmas back in the day. Combine that with our driving / riding culture, or rather, lack thereof, where getting a driving licence is ridiculously easy and pretty much anyone can just get on the roads and let it rip... well, the end result is obvious. I feel the same thing happens with rich idiots who buy sports cars and stamp on the accelerator as though they're still driving their dad's old Maruti and end up crashing spectacularly. So many buyers are just not used to this level of power and performance, and don't know how to handle it. A widowmaker, by my definition at least, is a car or bike that allows this to happen very easily and does not suffer fools gladly.

Disclaimer: I do ride a Dook, and I absolutely love it. But I'll criticize KTM when they deserve it (and have in the past, look at my posting history lol).

Sorry, have to disagree on this one. The Ferrari F40 & F50 also don't have traction control or ABS. That's not what makes it hard to drive. What made the CGT tricky early one was its tyres. Modern tyre tech has solved that and a CGT with new boots is a much easier car to drive.

(This is based on personal experience having spent plenty of time behind the wheel of all three.)