[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Depends on where you look at it from, I guess. You may also see

"Tata re-introduces the new 407 truck with the 2.7 L Jaguar Twin-turbo diesel"

But!!!!.......for export only!

[maddy42]

Well well just imagine getting your indica with a jaguar symbol atleast!!!!

[Pakua4581]

Meant "BOOST" in my earlier post.

[safari_lover]

The deal might be done.

source: Moneycontrol India :: News :: Tata-Ford: Is the deal done? :: Tata Motors :: Business :: Tata,Ford,Land Rover,Jaguar,Aston Martin,Volvo,New Zealand Herald

[1100D]

Originally Posted by bigman

The only way to make money is to move production of these brands overseas but will they be able to replicate the quality ? To date every TATA car I have seen has differences in finish especially when it comes to panel allignment. No one is going to spend £50K + on a TATA made LR if the quality is similar to their current products.

Quality is built and designed into a product rather than checked as an after activity. As long as LR's and Jaguars start rolling from their own facilities and being designed by their own people, that connot go too far off, only tolerances may be a little off. But on the otherhand, both of these, LR, especially is in direct interest to Tata. Tata will definitely learn and the quality processes will definitely trickle into the future product lines. A JV with Fiat, an acquisition of LR and Jaguar and they had Marcopolo and Daewoo trucks already in their portfolio. Not to mention CORUS on the other side. It cant get bigger than this.

Perhaps after this take over, Tata should revisit making the Magna as a pilot project, with Tata motors own engineers stationed at Jaguar design facilities during the design stage. The knowledge gathered will be immense.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by 1100D

A JV with Fiat, an acquisition of LR and Jaguar and they had Marcopolo and Daewoo trucks already in their portfolio. Not to mention CORUS on the other side. It cant get bigger than this.

Tata has not acquired Marcopolo but only formed an Indian JV with them, to benefit from Marcopolo's vast experience and technology. Marcopolo is one of world's leading bus body builders.

For more info:

Tata Motors - Media Centre

[khanak]

Ford's year-end sales event isn't limited to your local dealership, as news came down the wires today that the final bids for Jaguar and Land Rover have been submitted by India's Tata Motors, Mahindra & Mahindra and One Equity Partners, a private equity firm. The Economic Times and Hindustan Times are both citing separate figures, with the former reporting the bid between $1.5 and $2b, while the latter pumps up the both figures to $1.7 and $2.2b. But what's $200 million between friends, right?

Regardless, those numbers are somewhat in line with what Merrill Lynch analysts predicted the two automakers would fetch in the market, and according to sources close to the transaction, Ford will be considering the bids later next week.


Final bids for Jaguar, Land Rover between $1.5 and $2.2b - Autoblog

TATA/ Mahindra are overpaying, if the numbers being touted are for real.

There is good reason that other majors or financial groups are not bidding for Jaguar although they certainly have the money and technical expertise to turn them around short and mid term.

Jaguar is essentially a dead brand because the average age of the typical buyer is said to be very high, and most buy purely because of "British" and "Anglo" looks, origin and ownership.

How long can such a niche demography last, and be sustained?

Because beyond that, no matter what TATA/Mahindra do, rest assured the Germans and Japanese would stay few steps ahead. This segment does not reward also rans.

TATA or Mahindra will likely win the bid. Times of Islamabad and other dhimmi media will go to town about how India has 'arrived'. And after the dust has setlled, TATA will discover that they have paid money essentially to buy a junk brand. Great history, no meaningful future, and certainly not any proportinate return in technical expertise compared to the investment.

For the same amount, they could set up proper engineering and design facilities, that would engineer cars comparable to Hyundai et al. Not glamorous, but more handsome return long term.

But if they are hell bent on acquiring, It makes more sense to buy Prodrive than Jaguar/LR.

PS: Let One Equity "win" this. Please god.

[Mayavi]

ummm one point you are missing is the difference between other major auto groups and TATA. Other Auto groups already have the technology and a luxury brand like Jaguar/LR is not going to add much value. TATA's on the other hand want the technology, expertise and dealer network of Jaguar/LR which makes it attractive for them.

TATA's will not be buying the two british companies hoping to turn around their fortunes, they will be doing it to turn around their own fortunes.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by SuperSyn

PS: Let One Equity "win" this. Please god.

I agree.

Very well said indeed !

[iraghava]

Agree completely with you Supersyn. Acquiring these brands would not only mean loss of the purchase money but later on they are going to waste even more money by pumping it into the brands to "revive" them.

I don't think acquiring the two is a smart move for either Tata or M&M.

[sqwall]

I read in TOI a couple of days back that the dealer network for Jaguar in US is opposed to an 'Indian' company owning the brand. They say it would dent to the image. Is it because of an image problem with the Indian manufacturers or lack of elite lineage?

[Mayavi]

Originally Posted by sqwall

I read in TOI a couple of days back that the dealer network for Jaguar in US is opposed to an 'Indian' company owning the brand. They say it would dent to the image. Is it because of an image problem with the Indian manufacturers or lack of elite lineage?

Lineage doesn't matter, its the skin color that matter when you are talking about luxury segment.

Anyway, I think those opposed to the deal aren't thinking from Indian POV. There is organic growth and then there is inorganic growth. TATA and Mahindra wouldn't make a dent on international auto sales by following organic growth models. Designing stuff in-house and learning everything from scratch sure has its charms but has one major disadvantage - it takes time which TATA's don't have. By the time TATA's get ready to take on the big boys by designing stuff in-house, IC engine would be obsolete (Japanese took 30 years and Koreans took 20) and alternative fuels would come into play. If TATA acquires Jag/Lr today, then they can leverage the technology for a good 20 years while diverting funding to their hybrid initiatives. Plus Jag/LR engineering their cars would help the Indian sales rise.

Think about it, an American buyer may not pay $50,000 for a Indian made Jaguar, but an Indian buyer would definitely pay $75,000 to buy a Jaguar, even if its Indian made. The other advantage is a Safari with better off-road capabilities and an India with better engines. TATA's can now take the business away from International players in Indian and African markets. Who wouldn't buy Indian cars with oiropean technology. I mean, look at the Micro car thread, people are excited about a Srilankan made Korean car which had a tie up with Merc in the stone ages!

[tsk1979]

huh skin color? When its a matter of money everything else takes a back seat. If skin color was an issue there would be no Lexus in the US.
Its more of a case of perception. Indian automobile companies are known worldwide for low quality stuff. When you are selling a economy hatch low quality of plastics and other stuff is acceptable, but this is not the case with an elite brand.
If the company Rhino came up with a 25 lakh SUV instead of the 6L MUV they have now, would people in India buy it?
I am sure that has nothing to with skin color.
So please stop looking for conspiracy theories where there is none.

[Mayavi]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

When you are selling a economy hatch low quality of plastics and other stuff is acceptable, but this is not the case with an elite brand.

Jaguar and LR would be made in UK by the very same people who are making it now. How will quality change by change of ownership? Besides, the main market for Jaguar is US where Indian cars do not sell and already we have Jag dealers oppose TATA ownership. How do you explain it?

Originally Posted by tsk1979

So please stop looking for conspiracy theories where there is none.

errr... you already forgot how skin color became an issue when Mittal bid for Arcelor? If there was so much hostility that was overtly displayed in media, one can only imagine what was being talked about behind the screens.

hysterical remarks made against Lakshmi Mittal calling him “the predator” from India. Guy Dolle CEO of Arcelor termed Mittal’s offer as “ridiculous” and would be paid in “monkey money” (an inelegant expression in French signifying worthless money) in direct reference to Indian money.

Dolle was not the only culprit, there were also some contemptuous declarations by minister’s of France and prime minister of Luxemburg which signified outright racism against Mittal.

All this for a steel company and we are talking about a luxury auto brand here which depends on people perceptions. I don't think US jaguar dealers have looked at the quality of Indica cars before they opposed the deal. In the *luxury* auto market, or any other luxury market for that matter, it is the place of origin that matters. People pay for the brand value and not really the product. Brand value comes from place of origin.

Now I am not saying that it is entirely based on skin color, but just that people of lesser hues should work a bit harder to be considered equals. Being same quality and technology doesn't cut it, it should be more. Ask Toyota/Lexus how long it took them to be accepted Or ask the Indian software companies. It will take time for Indian companies to be accepted by mainstream Americans (major market for Jag/LR) and it will take more than just a good quality/product. TATA needs good PR, may be they need to flaunt their luxury hotel line in US.