[devarshi84]

I read this article and it really hurts to see that the big three have to pay double the salaries to their employees and spend billions on insurance only.

MLive.com: Everything Michigan

[merve_extreme]

Well that is how they are going to go down.The unions are killing them like a slow poison.

[theMAG]

They're better off shifting base to east-European countries

[ananthkamath]

Actually it wont hurt that much when you consider what got them into this mess. Years of procrastination, complacency and a whole bunch of mediocre automobiles that no one remembers after 2 or so model years.

What the article doesnt tell you is why the Japs make more money per car. Their processes are inherently more efficient because they dont change technology for nearly every model year.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

What the article doesnt tell you is why the Japs make more money per car. Their processes are inherently more efficient because they dont change technology for nearly every model year.

Yes , not until someone else has brought it out!

[Mayavi]

Yes, its all the auto unions and nothing to do with cars like this

[GTO]

Rubbish, the big 2.5 dont have problems only due to the health costs of its employees. The primary reason for their dismal condition is the product. Uninspiring designs, outdated technology (relative), compromised reliability, lack of perceived / actual quality and an overall lack of refinement are the real issues.

They also focussed too much on the Trucks and SUVs and side-lined sedans altogether. Then there was the problem with fleet sales and 0% specials which destroyed the residual value of anything GM or Ford.

[tsk1979]

The entire world had moved to more fuel efficient cars, with modern design and tech, and the big three were still living in Hummerland.
They are changing now, but "Bolting the stable after the horse has bolted" is not going to help.

[amit]

Arey Devarshi, after the 'touch and feel' expereince that we both had in their cars at the Toronto Auto Show, you still wonder why they are struggling!

For those who have seen and driven the Chevrolet Cobalt/Pontiac Pursuit, the car can equal build and interior quality of the Honda Civic........of Model Year 2002!

Also, forget Cadillacs and Lincolns, even the Hummer comes with a 4 speed A/T while the Japanese have moved onto 5 and the Europeans to 6 speed Auto's.

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by amit

Also, forget Cadillacs and Lincolns, even the Hummer comes with a 4 speed A/T while the Japanese have moved onto 5 and the Europeans to 6 speed Auto's.

And in some cases even more, MB now has a 7-speed auto while Lexus has introduced an 8-speed one!

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by amit

Arey Devarshi, after the 'touch and feel' expereince that we both had in their cars at the Toronto Auto Show, you still wonder why they are struggling!

For those who have seen and driven the Chevrolet Cobalt/Pontiac Pursuit, the car can equal build and interior quality of the Honda Civic........of Model Year 2002!

Also, forget Cadillacs and Lincolns, even the Hummer comes with a 4 speed A/T while the Japanese have moved onto 5 and the Europeans to 6 speed Auto's.

Dost, I remember those times. But After seeing the new Lincolns and Fords Interiors, I am having another thoughts.

And its a simple logic. when you dont have money in the safe, How is one supposed to make good cars? that needs investment.

And yes, There's always two sides to a coin. So the big three sure are guilty.

[highwayblaze]

Originally Posted by GTO

Rubbish, the big 2.5 dont have problems only due to the health costs of its employees. The primary reason for their dismal condition is the product. Uninspiring designs, outdated technology (relative), compromised reliability, lack of perceived / actual quality and an overall lack of refinement are the real issues.

They also focussed too much on the Trucks and SUVs and side-lined sedans altogether. Then there was the problem with fleet sales and 0% specials which destroyed the residual value of anything GM or Ford.

I'll buy that anytime and i'm sure many others will as well.

Even today when these companies are struggling to keep up they have the b%!!$$$ or stupidity to come up with cars like the Chrysler Sebring or the Dodge avenger (The designer was probably drunk when he did these)

A professor at Univ of Michigan @ Dearborn did a study and found out that Year Average Pay for a big three employee is 140K USD (including all benefits etc.) in comparison to a 95K USD annual benefits for a professor who has a PhD. Numbers speak for themselves. Even the Union has no choice now, either they negotiate to loose some of their benefits or loose their jobs cause the local companies can't keep up with the Japanese.

[ananthkamath]

Originally Posted by highwayblaze

A professor at Univ of Michigan @ Dearborn did a study and found out that Year Average Pay for a big three employee is 140K USD (including all benefits etc.) in comparison to a 95K USD annual benefits for a professor who has a PhD. Numbers speak for themselves. Even the Union has no choice now, either they negotiate to loose some of their benefits or loose their jobs cause the local companies can't keep up with the Japanese.

Who is this professor? Name?

devarshi, Ford & GM dont have money in the safe? Are you kidding man? They may be making losses but their pockets are still very deep.

[devarshi84]

saboot hai kya?!!! just kidding.


back to the topic. their pockets sure were deep once. But Ford hasnt made profit since more than a decade now. How big do you think their pockets are?

Chrysler was recently sold and its obvious that its parent would have emptied the safe before selling the house.

Cant bet on GM though.

[highwayblaze]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

But Ford hasnt made profit since more than a decade now. How big do you think their pockets are?

True that! They've mortgaged all their plants to get a 20+ billion dollars in credit to deal with all the mess. Scary !