[Mayavi]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Resale value is just a measure of how well has a company been able to market its image. Nothin else. All the companies today have equivalent quality control standards.

So what you are saying is that if the Big Three manage to steal Honda/Toyota marketing heads, their cars would be magically become number one selling cars with very high reliability ratings?

The magic is lots of marketing. Whereever you see a bmw/Mercedes poster or media ad, there will be a Lexus ad.

Again, are you saying that if there is a Buick poster right next to an S class poster, Buick can eat into S market?

Interesting theory I must say.

[theMAG]

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

This is all bullcrap. CSI doesnt mean a tiny damn thing. Word on the street is, simply, if you want a car that is almost GUARANTEED to run 200,000 miles right out of the box, buy Toyota/Honda. Not Buick or Chevy or Ford.

I agree. I wouldnt be surprised to learn that the US auto majors would have funded that University of Michigan study

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by Mayavi

So what you are saying is that if the Big Three manage to steal Honda/Toyota marketing heads, their cars would be magically become number one selling cars with very high reliability ratings?



Again, are you saying that if there is a Buick poster right next to an S class poster, Buick can eat into S market?

Interesting theory I must say.

yes, that's what I meant. You should read what Renault's Carlos did to Nissan.

And yes Buick can eat into S market but then the cars should be in competition. A m800 cannot be pipped against a Chevy Sr-V and expected to succeed.

[rahul_intlad]

Just picked this up:
After consultation with JD Power,Toyota attributes most of the customer dissatisfaction to unwanted noise inside the car,now every car that rolls of the production line would have specially trained personnel to rigourously test for rattles and squeaks.

[ananthkamath]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Toyota makes commuter vehicles and not cars. Both are different concepts.

This is where I begin to disagree. Would you classify the Celica, MR2 Spyder, and most of the Lexus as commuter vehicles. If you do, then you are extremely biased.

Originally Posted by devarshi84

The magic is lots of marketing. Whereever you see a bmw/Mercedes poster or media ad, there will be a Lexus ad.

Whats wrong in that?

Originally Posted by devarshi84

I aint a fan of big three, mind you. But I aint a supporter of the Japanese marketing gimmics also.

Tell me this is a joke. You say all these things about Toyota and then proceed to make this statement? What marketing gimmics are you talking about that no one else in the industry is practising? Obviously you dont know more than skin-deep about the north american automotive industry.

[1100D]

It was very surprising and coincidental that when Toyota/Lexus/Honda was climbing up (early mid 90's), the previous Quality/Reliability benchmarks were on their way down. What Toyota/Honda did was to learn from the stalwarts in their own domain/geography and apply their own manufacturing practices. However this learning process was also involved in a lot of debatable controversies.

Now there is a consortium of manufacturers, mainly GM Daimler Chrysler BMW that are taking things differently. Probably in a few years from now we will get back to having cars expensive again.

[Mayavi]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

yes, that's what I meant. You should read what Renault's Carlos did to Nissan.

And yes Buick can eat into S market but then the cars should be in competition. A m800 cannot be pipped against a Chevy Sr-V and expected to succeed.

So what is your next car? Buick or Oldsmobile*?


*Are they even making them?

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by Mayavi

So what is your next car? Buick or Oldsmobile*?


*Are they even making them?

Have you ever heard of lincoln MKX and Caddy's?

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

Tell me this is a joke. You say all these things about Toyota and then proceed to make this statement? What marketing gimmics are you talking about that no one else in the industry is practising? Obviously you dont know more than skin-deep about the north american automotive industry.

Toyota doesnt make up the Japanese car market. Does it? There's Nissan, there's mazda, there's Honda and many more.

And obviously You are walking on water when it comes to information American Automobile industry. Whatever info you hold, dont try to shove it on people. There are toyota jobs available at showrooms.


Not liking toyota is a personal preference of mine which only strengthened with their uninteresting cars (minus the FJ cruiser) and I would love to see you give all this info to my friend who has had 3 accidents in 2 corollas.(I had to mention it again.)


and lets keep the grudges outside the forums.

[Mayavi]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Have you ever heard of lincoln MKX and Caddy's?

Yes, what about them?

[Mayavi]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Not liking toyota is a personal preference of mine which only strengthened with their uninteresting cars (minus the FJ cruiser) and I would love to see you give all this info to my friend who has had 3 accidents in 2 corollas.(I had to mention it again.)

Not liking Toyota or any other brand for that matter sure is your personal preference. One can understand if you do not like the designs, powerplant or the driving dynamics as they differ from person to person, but calling Toyota success a marketing gimmick is just bordering on foolishness.

Toyota copied American cars of the 60's, made small cars in the 70's, made them reliable in the 80's and won the American market by the 90's. They know what the market wants and they give it to them at an affordable price. Now it is the worlds largest car maker. This feat is not possible based on marketing strategy alone. Marketing can only do so much, you need to have a good product.

Now you keep mentioning your friends accidents in corollas but you never mentioned what kind of accidents they were. Did the accidents happen because the vehicle is at fault or because your friend doesn't know how to drive?

[carboy]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!!!!!!
Suzuki is at the bottom of the table!!!!

It's very difficult to see a Suzuki car on the road in the USA.

Suzuki is known more as motorcycle company in the US, than
a car company.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Mayavi

they give it to them at an affordable price.

Not in India. Toyota's are highly overpriced in India.

[devarshi84]

mayavi, I aint calling toyota's success a marketing gimmick, I am attributing Toyota's success majorly to Their marketing department.

check out any newspapers until 2006 (I havent read em since then) and all have comparos of the big three among themselves only, while Toyota's were more targeted.

Until 90's toyota played catchup, now Big three are playing catch up. So what's wrong if big three improves their quality. Is that a crime? (Atleast that's the way American newspapers make it sound.)

And my friend wasnt driving, it was a chaffeur who also drives a baleno, Civic, Astra and mercedes benz E-class. None of the other cars have been through similar events.

I am entitled to my opinion and I wouldnt be wanting to strecth this discussion. Lets stick to the topic.

[ananthkamath]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

And obviously You are walking on water when it comes to information American Automobile industry. Whatever info you hold, dont try to shove it on people. There are toyota jobs available at showrooms.

Not liking toyota is a personal preference of mine which only strengthened with their uninteresting cars (minus the FJ cruiser) and I would love to see you give all this info to my friend who has had 3 accidents in 2 corollas.(I had to mention it again.)

And just as you have your personal preferences I have mine. And I have the right to express my opinion, whatever the hell that might be. I' m not out to please anyone here.

I'm really interested in knowing the reason for your friend's 3 accidents in 2 corollas now that you mentioned . The fact that you repeatedly mention this as a sort of justification of why you think Toyota makes crappy cars, but fail to tell the whole story, makes it all the more interesting.

[Mayavi]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

mayavi, I aint calling toyota's success a marketing gimmick, I am attributing Toyota's success majorly to Their marketing department.

My question is, do you have anything to back up your claim.
What is Toyota doing in the marketing space that the big three are not doing? Toyota and Honda's do not give the kind of deals that Ford, GM, Chrysler give. What marketing are you talking about? The consumer satisfaction index, which started this thread also talks about American consumers not being satisfied with their home grown cars.
And why just Toyota, Honda is also a preferred choice over american cars. Now Hyundai is gaining market share. How do you explain.

Until 90's toyota played catchup, now Big three are playing catch up. So what's wrong if big three improves their quality. Is that a crime? (Atleast that's the way American newspapers make it sound.)

Nothing wrong if they really improve quality. But car sales and resale values would be the only indicator of that and not market studies that are based on a small sample.

And my friend wasnt driving, it was a chaffeur who also drives a baleno, Civic, Astra and mercedes benz E-class. None of the other cars have been through similar events.

I am entitled to my opinion and I wouldnt be wanting to strecth this discussion. Lets stick to the topic.

Then your friend should get a better chauffer and you should stop blaming Corollas. If you think the accidents happened because of some design deficiencies, then I think it is fair game. Otherwise you shouldn't have mentioned the accidents in this thread. Accidents can happen to any car, not just a Toyota.