[vigsom]

Introduction

This is an account of how some remote due diligence helped a very close friend's daughter pick up her first own car, a pre-owned 2012 Toyota Camry XLE (codenamed XV50) in Florida.

What's on the Menu?

1. Challenges on hand and the pendulum swinging from to
2. Options evaluated
3. Purchase decision
4. Initial ownership experience

What's unique about this purchase experience?

Only two working days in hand and getting a car became an absolute must.

[vigsom]

The need for a car and the challenges on hand

A very close friend's daughter had been driving her Dad's Toyota RAV4 and her sis' 2020 Camry in CT and was good at it. In mid-2024 - she had enrolled for a second degree, and was moving from CT to a University in Florida. Now for the challenges

1. She was moving to Florida one Wednesday, and had to have a car in hand by that Sunday
2. Any potential car would have to be seen and closed latest by Friday (for the title transfer to be completed)
3. She was an absolute novice at understanding vehicles, and except driving, new nothing technical about them
4. Unknown city, and immediate appointment for pre-purchase vehicle inspection might not be possible
5. Knowing my friend not to be a risk taker, I had to ensure that the risks associated with the prospective purchase should be as close to zero as possible

So it came down to vehicle inspection, finalization and title transfer all preferably between a Wednesday afternoon and a Friday afternoon

Car search activated

Over 20 days prior to her landing date, I started looking on various portals, dealerships and FB Marketplace and located an ideal car - a one owner 2006 Lexus ES330 done just 75,000 miles. Just looking at the ad, I told her she could safely take this car. In hindsight, however, I also knew that the ES330 would disappear well before she landed in Florida. Therefore, I went on to shortlist more cars three days prior to her arrival

1. 2013 Kia Optima SXL done 1,11,000 miles
2. 2016 Honda Accord EX done 1,90,000 miles
3. 2012 Toyota Camry XLE done 1,09,000 miles
4. 2009 Toyota Corolla S done 1,35,000 miles
5. 2015 Toyota Camry SE done 73,500 miles

Parallel actions

About a week prior, I started taking short lessons for her to help her understand some basics along with some illustrations and my old threads on the Lexus and Acura on this very forum. Few areas that I touched upon:

1. how to read the colour and feel of the engine oil and infer
2. what hail damage would look like
3. typical tell tale signs of a car that's seen flood damage
4. visual inspection of a suspension
5. how to observe tyres and infer

As I was going through this process, I also noted her to get interested and grasp some fine details rather fast. This gave me some confidence in her ability to provide me with the right inputs when the actual remote assessment was to happen.

[vigsom]

Examining the list, and an honourable mention

As expected, the 2006 ES330 was gone by the time she landed in Florida. Although I felt the 2012 Camry was now her best bet, I just couldn't afford to ignore the 2013 Kia Optima SXL. Presenting a few pictures that are drool-worthy.

Front Left View


Center Dash - - the lettering all intact


Driver Door Controls - the lettering all intact


Gear lever console


Driver door view - seats undamaged


Rear seat - undamaged


View from the rear seat - note the sporty pedals too


Rear


Running a carfax report on this car threw the following up, which only confirmed my initial feel of this car

1. All inspection records seen; oil changed every 3,000 miles
2. Clean ownership and title

The report also indicated that the car had gone for a manufacturer recall to secure headliner plates. The car was sold in Georgia but moved by the owner to Indiana and then to Florida

[vigsom]

More due diligence

In line with challenges no.3 and 5 viz. she being a novice at tech stuff about cars, and purchase risk to be ALARP, I asked her to register for Carfax; options were USD 45 for one report, USD 60 for two, but I asked her to go for USD 99 for four reports. Owners of these cars were kind enough to share the VINs and that helped in pulling Carfax reports.

Carfax reports - FOR and AGAINST inferences

1. 2013 Kia Optima SXL

FOR Good history of routine maintenance, Clean Title, One manufacturer recall done, Genuine Odo Reading

AGAINST One minor accident

2. 2016 Honda Accord EX

FOR Neat looking car, Good history of service until 1,30,000 miles, Genuine Odo Reading

AGAINST Was a taxi in New York for four years, then moved to Florida, service details post 1,30,000 miles was not consistent

3. 2012 Toyota Camry XLE

FOR Complete history of maintenance, a Florida car throughout, Clean Title, Genuine Odo Reading;

AGAINST Three minor rear end damages reported

Given the challenges already listed in earlier posts, I advised her to only inspect the Camry on her arrival, and should this example check out well, go ahead and close. Although I was mighty impressed with the Kia Optima, I put this at no.2 on the options list for the following arguments:

1. A 1,09,000 mile Camry carries much much more value over an equivalent Kia Optima
2. Two or three years down the line, when she moves out of Florida to elsewhere in the US, she could easily take the Camry along
3. Should she decide to sell the Camry in FL after her course, she'd be able to execute a quick sale with negligible loss, given the odo reading and its clean history
4. A 2.5L NA Toyota would suit her requirements better than a 2.0L Kia Turbo petrol

[vigsom]

All that happened on D-Day (Decision Day)

Inspection

She and her Mom arrived in Florida as scheduled, and fixed a time the next day (Thursday) to check the car. I'd asked her to do a preliminary check based on all the inputs I'd given her. Armed with all information from her preliminary checks, she did a video call with me. The video quality was good and this helped both of us look at the car in reasonable detail. Findings of her initial drive and the video assessment:

1. Mechanically and cosmetically good
2. All tyres were Pirelli P4, two years old, with enough juice; no cracks/ uneven treadwear
3. Engine oil was good enough for another 2,000 miles
4. Coolant was the pristine Toyota LL and pink
5. Brake fluid was yellow
4. Suspension and drivetrain was good; only negative was one of the stabilizer link rods had a shot boot, and grease leaking out. But it wasn't making any noise

The 2AR-FE Engine Start Up - note the super clean engine bay

https://youtu.be/e9sTBnh-OMc?feature=shared

Engine Oil



Screengrab - Front Left wheel side



Screengrab -Front right wheel side



Screengrab -Stabilizer Link Rod



Screengrab - Minor crack on the top mount rubber


Buyer wanting a physical inspection

For peace of mind, she was looking to see if a garage could perform a physical inspection; no appointments available until Saturday anywhere, so that was ruled out

Decision making

Now that all doors for a garage inspection were closed, and she had only that day to decide, I told her to trust the virtual inspection and her own experience with this car, and compare that with her drives of her sister's Camry. Mom and daughter went ahead and negotiated. The seller and they finally agreed to USD 10,800 which was fair.

Next Steps

Both parties agreed to be at the DMV early the next morning.

[vigsom]

The Camry is finally hers

The seller was at DMV as promised, and initiated the title transfer, but as luck would have it, there was some issue of cap in funds transfer through some platform (Zelle?), and that left them again in tension. They eventually tapped into the Zelle accounts via multiple account holders in the family and finally got the whole amount through. She got a new plate while the seller took his old plate. Finally, All's Well That Ends Well (at least for then).

Title



Two keys


The drive back home

https://youtu.be/PHItbf_figA?si=4Wqg7ZtkcM-LSuYA

Exterior views





Driver Seat - the corner towards the door was a little compressed, else all was well





Center Console



More views









Rear Seat



More views - note the bubbles on the sun film on the rear windscreen

[vigsom]

Initial experience and the pendulum swinging from Happy to Unhappy

Start Up the day after the car was hers

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Frer4fBWm_I?feature=shared

It was a good day as far as the drive went, but two things happened

1. she opened the sunroof but could not close it, managing to close it after a while
2. a stone flew and hit the windscreen leaving a chip

A feeling of having got a dream first car came crashing down as a result of this episode. She called me and was rather upset. I just told her not to bother. She eventually went ahead and planned two jobs

1. Windscreen change under insurance
2. Rear windscreen sun control film changed since it had bubbles

In addition to this, she turned the car that day for an inspection at a Toyota dealership. They were happy to give the car a clean chit about its overall condition, stating that it was one of the best Camrys of that vintage. However, also presented was a fat list of work that was required.

1. Used car inspection USD 190
2. Engine oil change USD 68
3. Brake system flush and brake fluid change USD 231
4. Engine coolant flush and replacement USD 232
5. Spark plugs change USD 231
6. Engine mount change USD 508

Ultimately she got no.1, 2 done.

Inspection Reports and job estimates




Experiences till date

She had the engine oil replaced again after 2500 miles and the dealership were pushing for a change of tyres. She said No. The car is reportedly performing flawlessly and she's covered close to 4000 milestone after purchase.

Summing it up

1. This Camry was the best buy given the many challenges of time listed earlier. I'll be happy if she turns the car in at the same garage that serviced this car prior to her purchase. At least she would get her money's worth in terms of service.
2. If I were her, I'd have loved to drive that Kia Optima SXL but then wishes will remain wishes until it is time for them to be fulfilled!

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[GTO]

She's lucky to have a car guru like you around! Great thread, thanks for sharing. Going to our homepage today

In India, my personal cap for a used car is 40,000 km...50,000 km if I really love the specific example. But the fact is, in the USA, 100000 miles (160,000 km) is acceptable for pre-owned cars. I myself had bought a 10-year old Accord with 90,000 miles on it as a student. Used it for 2 years and ~20,000 miles, didn't have any noteworthy problem. Cruising on the American freeways is very easy on the car and leads to low rates of wear & tear, compared to our treacherous, slow moving bumper-to-bumper traffic conditions. Perhaps, 10000 km on an American freeway leads to the same wear & tear as merely 3000 km in rush-hour Mumbai & Bangalore traffic.

Wishing your friend a great innings with the car. If you have to buy used, quite nothing like getting models that have built Toyota's reputation (Camry, Corolla, Innova, Fortuner). These are the safest used cars on the planet.

[brownkaiser]

Originally Posted by GTO

She's lucky to have a car guru like you around!

We are lucky to have a car guru like him around!

[Uppili_N55]

One good thing about the USA is their freeways which are less stressful to vehicles. As these are Florida cars, I am envious to see how clean the suspension parts are. I live in Detroit where salted roads easily eat away the entire underbody of cars and there is sub zero temperature for at least 6 months of the year which is not too kind on rubber components.

I go by the motto "Buy based on condition and not on mileage" I have 2 beater cars with higher than 150k Miles and use them regularly and they don't even have a check engine light. But I will have to part ways very soon due to the chronic rust that is slowly killing them.

My 2005 SAAB 92-x currently has 180k miles (289K km) and my 2005 Accord has 150k (241k km) and I regularly take them on 8hr plus road trips with no second thoughts, helps my BMW M235i stay low miles.

Sitting idle without regular usage causes more harm than than regular wear and tear.

[Guru_Shikhar]

Another day, another car ( abroad ), and another deal closed with your great help vigsom sir.

Such a great thing to have a masters like you is the beauty of this lovely forum and kindness of people like you to share your valuable time for getting the near perfect deals closed.

Keep rocking and waiting for next mystery car closure from your side.

Cheers

[rajathv8]

Excellent writeup.
The engine bay and underbody sure look clean.
At the same time those are some eye watering service charges. Not sure if it's the normal in the US with high labor rates.
How much did the ownership transfer cost in FL?

[vigsom]

Thank You all for your compliments. I just try and help folks with whatever knowledge and experience I've picked up over the years; taking my Guru's legacy forward (remember Chacha of my Premier Padmini fame?)

Originally Posted by rajathv8

At the same time those are some eye watering service charges. Not sure if it's the normal in the US with high labor rates.
How much did the ownership transfer cost in FL?

1. Eye watering service charges indeed. Labour is high
2. All included, they paid USD800 (taxes plus regn fees plus new license plate).

[Alfaholic]

It's good to know that she didn't pick up the Kia Optima, as it comes with the rubbish GDI engine that has a tendency to blow up without any warnings due to the rod bearing failures. Hyundai and Kia GDI engines to this day have this issue, at least in North America.

The 2016 Honda Accord is a pretty good car overall. However, their CVT automatic can be a hit or a miss, especially at such a high mileage.

The Toyota Camry is the best bet for her. Bulletproof 2.5L engine, regular torque converter automatic transmission, safe, and fuel efficient. It's not going to be a rocket ship, but it's going to be on the road for a long time with regular maintenance.

@vigsom If I remember right, the 2012-2014 Toyota Camry had a service bulletin for a torque converter shudder issue. Please tell her to check with the dealer and get it fixed if it has never been done.