[Amartya]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Both looks and soul are subjective and will vary from person to person.

I think the Supra is a gorgeous car.
I think the AE86 (Hachiroku) has a lot of soul (thanks to Tsuchiya and Initial D).

On the other hand, i dont find Ferraris to be special. They are just another bunch of fast cars to me. Not that they are not good but i just dont have that sort of attachment towards them.

I love the Veyron's presense. Even in the vids, you can sense its brutal power. But then again, you can't technically call it an Italian car.

The Mcalren F1 also has a lot of soul. The sound of a Carrera GT going through its gears can give goosebumps.

So everyone has a diff way of relating to diff cars.

Shan2nu

You are absolutely right. I too am not a blind fan of Ferrari and we can all debate the fact whether Lamborghini's, Bugatti's are Italian or not. But why go so far?
Look at the Alfa Romeo's, Maserati's, heck, even the Fiat Punto.

I said Italy in the question because there is something to be said about DNA in the auto parlance, there has to be a reason why the Audi R8 ( a really good car) doesn't evoke the same reaction as a Lamborghini Murcielago.

The good thing is, we can agree to disagree on the way a car looks. I believe that there is a lot to be said about Toyota's legendary reliability but if the Supra is the name you can come up with when I said that Toyota doesn't make a single good looking car, I think we are on the same page.

By the way, humour me and answer the first of my questions( or rebut by saying that Italians don't make cars with souls ). Just in case you think I am being sarcastic, I'll let you onto a (not so) secret - "I liked the looks of the Suzuki Baleno, specially the black Vxi".

[vinaydas]

@amartya
example of a good looking car from toyota- Lexus LFA.
Most of the Lexus line up is pretty handsome imo.

[Amartya]

@vinaydas

You are right of course. Precisely for this reason, I had specifically mentioned in the original question itself, that we are talking about Toyota per se.

[GTO]

Building light cars that meet current safety norms is an art. It requires mega expertise, and big $$$ in R&D. Japs intentionally keep things light.

On the other hand, Europeans aren't so worried about weight as their home market is primarily diesel (an engine that is inherently more efficient) and Europeans care about high speed dynamics.

What about the Americans then? Why are their cars so heavy? Or closer home, Tata? Read the first paragraph again.

[prasadee]

Originally Posted by normally_crazy

Americans are fat / over weight / sloppy - need more space, so big cars that handle like boats.

Japanese are light weight people and low maintainence, hence a 1 ton car will feel well built to them.

Europeans are fitter and more athletic than the above 2, they need fitter cars to drive. Something that is taut and handles like a fit sports person.

Try a Google search of "Why are americans ....." and see the auto completions. Same deal with "Why are Indians..."

[vivekiny2k]

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[aerohit]

You are all wrong. There is a better reason.......

[Shan2nu]

I said Italy in the question because there is something to be said about DNA in the auto parlance, there has to be a reason why the Audi R8 ( a really good car) doesn't evoke the same reaction as a Lamborghini Murcielago

Dude, a TATA nano evokes more reactions than any other Indian car on the road. That doesn't mean its good looking or has soul. Its just people's curiosity.

Moreover, the Audi is no way comparable to a Murcielago. Its their first attempt at making a supercar.

You keep a humble looking 18 year old Mclaren F1 next to the radical Lambo and see what happens.

Even Clarkson who loves Ferraris openly said that he doesn't find any of the new models good looking. But people get excited about these cars just bcoz they are Ferraris.

So lets not say that a particular car is beautiful or has soul just bcoz it comes from Italy. There any many cars which others find beautiful that aren't made by Italians.

If you were talking about something that could be timed or measured, then i wouldn't have argued. Coz when someone says a Veyron is faster than a Mclaren F1, everyone agrees, but try telling people a Veyron is better looking than the Mclaren F1 and you are bound to get mixed opinions.

Shan2nu

[Shan2nu]

...........................

YouTube - Clarksons views on new Ferraris.avi

Shan2nu

[sidindica]

Euro cars also spend most of their time at Nurburgring Nordschleife, undergoing handling tests.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Dude, a TATA nano evokes more reactions than any other Indian car on the road. That doesn't mean its good looking or has soul. Its just people's curiosity.

Moreover, the Audi is no way comparable to a Murcielago. Its their first attempt at making a supercar.
******

So lets not say that a particular car is beautiful or has soul just bcoz it comes from Italy. There any many cars which others find beautiful that aren't made by Italians.

If you were talking about something that could be timed or measured, then i wouldn't have argued. Coz when someone says a Veyron is faster than a Mclaren F1, everyone agrees, but try telling people a Veyron is better looking than the Mclaren F1 and you are bound to get mixed opinions.

Shan2nu

Well, if you read my post again, I agreed with you on the Ferrrari's not being very attractive. The Audi R8 example can be argued both ways and I can say that Pagani made the Zonda. Their "first" car.

I never claimed that everyth car that comes out of Italy is beautiful-or that they all had soul- but if you look at the proportion of really good looking (and distinctive) cars coming out of Italy compared to the rest of the world.

What I was trying to imply with the original question was how much of an impact does a country's cultural values, scenic beauty, history, arts etc. have on it's cars.

Anyway, we clearly have different tastes in car design and that is perfectly acceptable, I can admire the Supra for it's engineering but the styling through the 90's was terrible.

[Shan2nu]

You cannot define good looking to begin with. So a fan of Italian design/styling will automatically take a liking to Italian cars. Diff people have diff ways of judging beauty.

Just type 'world's most beautiful car' in google and see if all the surveys show the same name. You'l be shocked to see some of the cars people consider to be the most beautiful.

Heres what car designers consider to be the most beautiful car in the world - Car designers name Citroen DS "most beautiful car". Ever. — Autoblog

And according to this website, the Civic Mugen RR and Honda Legend are better looking than a ferrari 430 scuderia and lamorghini gallardo - Extremsportscar: world most beautiful cars

So why bother with something that cannot be weighed, timed or measured. Coz everyone has their own opinion about beautiful cars.

Shan2nu

[sidd25]

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[suhaas307]

The Global Automobile Industry would be very confused the day the Japs make a car that evokes emotion and passion the way an Italian car does and the day when Americans start to build small, light, reliable and fuel efficient cars!

If you ask me, the best cars today come from Europe. Japanese cars come very close and the American cars are, err.. good but somehow don't figure in this statement!

[raj_5004]

Continuing the discussion from here -

Whatever one says about engineering prowess & tech, how many of you'll think that the Jap's feather light/fragile/thin body panels are practical in indian conditions, especially in dense, jam-packed metropolitan cities?

Some instances of my innova:

1] our 4 day old innova: driver reversing at a speed of maybe 3-4 kmph, literally. reverse sensors fitted by the toyota A.S.S were not installed correctly. they showed wrong readings. there was a post behind. the innova went & "touched" behind. i get down anticipating a scratch on our brand new car. what i see is a huge dent on the boot & bumper. damage - Rs. 9000/-

2] after 4-5 months, i was reversing at the same speed & some children placed a plastic chair behind which i dint notice. reversed onto the chair which slided away. again got down anticipating nothing but saw the paint peeled off from the bumper! painting charges - Rs. 3500/-

3] In pune, a biker (splendour) rear ended our stationary innova at a slow speed. no damages to the bike but our car's bumper was torn apart! i could see a huge cavity in between. the bumper had to be replaced. Damage - Rs. 6500/-

some more damages below whose repair costs i dont remember-

4] a corolla while parking reversed onto my car damaging the front bumper. to my surprise, the entire brackets of the front bumper was broken!

5] a cycle & its rider fell down on the front fender in traffic scratching & denting it!

6] a rickshaw scraped against the front bumper peeling off its paint.

7] A small stone which flew from a adjacent car's tyre made a huge dent on the door.

8] Apart from all this, there has been numerous scratches on my innova, not caused by any other car or biker. to scratch an innova's paint, you just need your fingernails!

My brother always tells me that toyotas may not make good looking, butch or great performance cars but they make highly reliable, sensible & practical cars. i agree on the reliable part but not on the practical part. whatever is saved on the repair costs, more than that is spent on the denting & painting costs!

compare this to our "heavy" scorpio -

my car has been rear ended by a biker, dzire, esteem, qualis (the same qualis which earned me a bad name in this forum!) and some i dont remember... biker had a broken front mudguard, dzire had a scratched bumper & cracked headlight, esteem had a broken number plate & slightly dented bumper & qualis had a badly damaged front bumper. my scorpio's bumper still stands proudly & has required just a "touch up" job which was done free of cost at the A.S.S.!

Note: this is not a comparo between innova & scorpio. This is just to highlight why i prefer heavier cars. because they are 'stronger', i dont necessarily say 'safer', but they make me feel safer atleast. and of course, they are practical!