Steeroid - Will the Dicor outlast the Smart?

ajmat · 8th November 2005, 22:00

Think again !!!!!!

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/ne...?news_id=13344

A German-registered Smart Fortwo has been found with a phenomenal 339,600 miles on its clock.

The five-year old two-seater was first owned by a dental laboratory, which used it for daily 200-mile trips, before being bought by an automotive magazine. It still has its original three-cylinder engine and gearbox, and its only major new components have been a clutch (at 96,000 miles) and brakes (84,000).

Smart UK has welcomed the finding, saying: "Many people make the assumption that small cars are not particularly durable. However, (the) Smart is no ordinary small car, because it is engineered by Mercedes-Benz. It has been seven years since the original Fortwo was launched in Europe and so it's no surprise to see stories like this appearing around the world."

Steeroid · 8th November 2005, 22:13

Thats a very theoretical question, because the Dicor will invariably do longer distances than the Smart. The Smart may be CAPABLE of running 300,000 kms, but the question is - WHERE do you do all this running? Its not a highway car, and it definitely doesnt like even slightly uneven roads. It can only do those kms on smooth european roads where the owners are usually divorced and therefore have no family to bother about.

My Smart is a 2001-end model and has done 7,500 kms till date, of which I have clocked 2,800 kms in one year.

The Dicor was bought on 19th August. I left the country on the 9th of September. I returned again on the 19th of October and stayed on till the 6th of November. I've spent less than 40 days with the vehicle and its already done 8,000 kms.....you figure which one will clock more miles !

Theory is fine, but I prefer the practical approach. Smart is a good car in theory, but it needs better suspension if it is to survive in a place like India. It also needs better airconditioning.

And finally if my Brabus Cabrio were new, it would cost me the same or even more than the Dicor EX 4x4.

PS: I went into a crater on the Dharmapuri - Krishnagiri section at about 100 kmph on the Dicor. If it were the Smartie, it would've drowned or broken into a few pieces. On our roads, the Dicor will survive, the Smartie wont live to see a few thousand kilometers.

GTO · 9th November 2005, 16:12

Awesome stuff, bombers.

This thread got me thinking.....compare a "luxury" Japanese car of its time and a 50 year old design thats an Indian product. You would immediately talk of the Japanese car as having more longetivity and reliability, correct? WRONG!

Case in point is my 1996 Esteem VX and my 1997 Mahindra Classic. The Esteem will be completing its 10th year in 3 months and the Jeep its 9th in 2 months. Both of them have covered 120,000 kms+. Neither of them have had their engines rebuilt. They have only sipped on Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 fully synthetic lubes.

However, my Esteem is past its sell by date despite the "Japanese" tag and Marutis famed service. But my Jeep is in immaculate condition - healthy, reliable and with no rust at all. The engine is strong, and the air-conditioner is chilling even in Bombay summer afternoons. It has spent a total of 5 days off the road due to service / mechanical issues in the 11 months of this year. Needless to say, it is my first choice of car every morning to work. We love driving it.

The Esteem is avoided by all! Its creaky, the air-con is only just...Its probably good by 1996 Esteem standards but is no fun to drive or to own. It will be sold the minute I see a nice 5 lac car to use for the rough errands.

Get Steeroids road conditions point, and my Jeep has off-roaded several times seeing terrain that would have split the Esteem in half and then some more. You could point out that my Jeep is simplistic and rugged in engineering depth and has undergone a rebuild in 2003. But so has my Esteem twice. In fact, the total amount spent on the Esteems maintenance and upkeep to date is a LOT more than my Jeep (rebuilding costs included).

Just something to ponder upon....

GTO

RX135 · 9th November 2005, 16:51

I think it would be unfair to compare Smart and Dicor since they are built for entirely different set of conditions and requirements. Smart is not built for indian conditions and not for off-roading. So if they last long in design conditions, it will be good achievement. Dicor is no doubt rugged vehicle which can withstand poor (or non-existent) roads, but if Steeroid has to spend lot of time visiting workshop for replacement of blown up parts, I wouldn't say it is long lasting in real sense.

Coming back to GTO's observation, I agree on his points. Don't want to kick off another debate here, but IMHO, good engineering goes far beyond frugal engine.

Rtech · 9th November 2005, 16:58

We have a SMART owner on our board. Maybe Scooby05 can shed some light on how the car is holding up on our roads.

veyron1 · 10th November 2005, 00:45

ohkay, here's a kwacker of a thread...

my observations:

my 60,000 km run ex-safari had fewer problems than my uncle's 3000 km run alto, although the alto is much, much newer; almost 4 years newer. needless to say, my safari has been through days and roads that would give the little alto nightmares at thought, let alone traverse the distances that the safari has treaded.

thus my conclusion;

indian roads+SUVs= long lasting
indian roads+sedans= not-so-long-lasting
indian roads+hatches=not at all long lasting.

now, the life of each car depends a lot upon maintenance, and driving styles. but if a hatch and an SUV (the comparison is quirky) were to be driven and maintained similarly, well....i guess we all know who's gonna outlast the other...

devarshi84 · 10th November 2005, 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by veyron1

ohkay, here's a kwacker of a thread...

my observations:

my 60,000 km run ex-safari had fewer problems than my uncle's 3000 km run alto, although the alto is much, much newer; almost 4 years newer. needless to say, my safari has been through days and roads that would give the little alto nightmares at thought, let alone traverse the distances that the safari has treaded.

thus my conclusion;

indian roads+SUVs= long lasting
indian roads+sedans= not-so-long-lasting
indian roads+hatches=not at all long lasting.

now, the life of each car depends a lot upon maintenance, and driving styles. but if a hatch and an SUV (the comparison is quirky) were to be driven and maintained similarly, well....i guess we all know who's gonna outlast the other...

Wrong there are hatches that do big distances but live longer than many Suv's or sedans.

85% life of the vehicles rests on the maintainence you give to your car.

"the more you love your car,The better it runs"

But I agree Indian cars are more reliable in the long run. Now where are the toyota guys who have had their car for 10years? Hellooooooo!!!!!

aadix · 10th November 2005, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

We have a SMART owner on our board. Maybe Scooby05 can shed some light on how the car is holding up on our roads.

doesnt steeriod also own a smart (outside india though)?

Steeroid · 10th November 2005, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by aadix

doesnt steeriod also own a smart (outside india though)?

That is correct, but I think Rtech was trying to get feedback from a member who's been using the Smart on our roads. From what little I have seen of "bad" roads (which would probably qualify for main roads in India) here, the Smart really bounces around. Its good for the digestion, but bad for the backbone.

RX135 · 10th November 2005, 12:46

@veyron1, Comparing an alto with Safari is not a fair comparison. May be swift and Safari will do.

veyron1 · 11th November 2005, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Wrong there are hatches that do big distances but live longer than many Suv's or sedans.

not if they ply on the same roads; and yes, no peugeot 206 WRC's included in the comparo, please...

@rx; yes, it does seem unfair... okay then- swift vs. safari it is; frankly speaking, i don't think the swift can cover even half of the kind of roads that the safari has treaded through, without a sigh...

RX135 · 11th November 2005, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by veyron1

frankly speaking, i don't think the swift can cover even half of the kind of roads that the safari has treaded through, without a sigh...

Well, Safari IS designed to tread on those roads, whereas Swift is more of a city car. Not meant for offroading, isn't it?

BTW, in Kaza/Spiti valley, where most vehicles can't reach, Gypsies/Sumos do wonderful job, whereas in Ladakh, it is mostly Qualis.

veyron1 · 11th November 2005, 19:42

hmmm....so i'll have to make do with my gypsy for the time being to satisfy my animal instincts, eh...

but speaking of roads, i don't think the roads in the cities are that different from the outback now; the rains have screwed up all the roads; so, off-roading is possible the next time you go for grocery-shopping....

RX135 · 11th November 2005, 19:48

Tell me about bad roads. I stay in Pune. Period.

Anyway, situation has improved quite a bit now and there are no more big craters on the roads.

nitinbhag · 11th November 2005, 19:55

OK.. here is thread relevant to me..

1. Just got back from a 2500 KM Blr-Nagpur-Blr trip in my new Dicor and I can tell you THAT is a car for Indian roads. Ran into huge potholes over a 150KM stretch in Maharashtra and the Dicor hardly breaks its stride.. Had done the same trip in my Siena1.6 last year and I was crawling in 1st gear threading my way around. In fact, in the Dicor, the trip was 1 hour faster..

2. The 200m stretch leading to my house is true offroading.. no roads, stones & mud.. Dicor revels in it..

The way Blr is going, soon we will have no roads to drive on. Only SUVs will move around..

Will do a post on the trip in a few days...

8th November 2005, 22:00	#1
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 14,862 Thanked: 27,964 Times View My Garage	Steeroid - Will the Dicor outlast the Smart? Think again !!!!!! http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/ne...?news_id=13344 A German-registered Smart Fortwo has been found with a phenomenal 339,600 miles on its clock. The five-year old two-seater was first owned by a dental laboratory, which used it for daily 200-mile trips, before being bought by an automotive magazine. It still has its original three-cylinder engine and gearbox, and its only major new components have been a clutch (at 96,000 miles) and brakes (84,000). Smart UK has welcomed the finding, saying: "Many people make the assumption that small cars are not particularly durable. However, (the) Smart is no ordinary small car, because it is engineered by Mercedes-Benz. It has been seven years since the original Fortwo was launched in Europe and so it's no surprise to see stories like this appearing around the world."
	() Thanks

8th November 2005, 22:13	#2
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	Thats a very theoretical question, because the Dicor will invariably do longer distances than the Smart. The Smart may be CAPABLE of running 300,000 kms, but the question is - WHERE do you do all this running? Its not a highway car, and it definitely doesnt like even slightly uneven roads. It can only do those kms on smooth european roads where the owners are usually divorced and therefore have no family to bother about. My Smart is a 2001-end model and has done 7,500 kms till date, of which I have clocked 2,800 kms in one year. The Dicor was bought on 19th August. I left the country on the 9th of September. I returned again on the 19th of October and stayed on till the 6th of November. I've spent less than 40 days with the vehicle and its already done 8,000 kms.....you figure which one will clock more miles ! Theory is fine, but I prefer the practical approach. Smart is a good car in theory, but it needs better suspension if it is to survive in a place like India. It also needs better airconditioning. And finally if my Brabus Cabrio were new, it would cost me the same or even more than the Dicor EX 4x4. PS: I went into a crater on the Dharmapuri - Krishnagiri section at about 100 kmph on the Dicor. If it were the Smartie, it would've drowned or broken into a few pieces. On our roads, the Dicor will survive, the Smartie wont live to see a few thousand kilometers. Last edited by Steeroid : 8th November 2005 at 22:29.
	() Thanks

9th November 2005, 16:12	#3
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,517 Thanked: 300,704 Times View My Garage	Awesome stuff, bombers. This thread got me thinking.....compare a "luxury" Japanese car of its time and a 50 year old design thats an Indian product. You would immediately talk of the Japanese car as having more longetivity and reliability, correct? WRONG! Case in point is my 1996 Esteem VX and my 1997 Mahindra Classic. The Esteem will be completing its 10th year in 3 months and the Jeep its 9th in 2 months. Both of them have covered 120,000 kms+. Neither of them have had their engines rebuilt. They have only sipped on Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 fully synthetic lubes. However, my Esteem is past its sell by date despite the "Japanese" tag and Marutis famed service. But my Jeep is in immaculate condition - healthy, reliable and with no rust at all. The engine is strong, and the air-conditioner is chilling even in Bombay summer afternoons. It has spent a total of 5 days off the road due to service / mechanical issues in the 11 months of this year. Needless to say, it is my first choice of car every morning to work. We love driving it. The Esteem is avoided by all! Its creaky, the air-con is only just...Its probably good by 1996 Esteem standards but is no fun to drive or to own. It will be sold the minute I see a nice 5 lac car to use for the rough errands. Get Steeroids road conditions point, and my Jeep has off-roaded several times seeing terrain that would have split the Esteem in half and then some more. You could point out that my Jeep is simplistic and rugged in engineering depth and has undergone a rebuild in 2003. But so has my Esteem twice. In fact, the total amount spent on the Esteems maintenance and upkeep to date is a LOT more than my Jeep (rebuilding costs included). Just something to ponder upon.... GTO
	() Thanks

9th November 2005, 16:51	#4
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	I think it would be unfair to compare Smart and Dicor since they are built for entirely different set of conditions and requirements. Smart is not built for indian conditions and not for off-roading. So if they last long in design conditions, it will be good achievement. Dicor is no doubt rugged vehicle which can withstand poor (or non-existent) roads, but if Steeroid has to spend lot of time visiting workshop for replacement of blown up parts, I wouldn't say it is long lasting in real sense. Coming back to GTO's observation, I agree on his points. Don't want to kick off another debate here, but IMHO, good engineering goes far beyond frugal engine.
	() Thanks

9th November 2005, 16:58	#5
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	We have a SMART owner on our board. Maybe Scooby05 can shed some light on how the car is holding up on our roads.
	() Thanks

10th November 2005, 00:45	#6
veyron1 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,424 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	ohkay, here's a kwacker of a thread... my observations: my 60,000 km run ex-safari had fewer problems than my uncle's 3000 km run alto, although the alto is much, much newer; almost 4 years newer. needless to say, my safari has been through days and roads that would give the little alto nightmares at thought, let alone traverse the distances that the safari has treaded. thus my conclusion; indian roads+SUVs= long lasting indian roads+sedans= not-so-long-lasting indian roads+hatches=not at all long lasting. now, the life of each car depends a lot upon maintenance, and driving styles. but if a hatch and an SUV (the comparison is quirky) were to be driven and maintained similarly, well....i guess we all know who's gonna outlast the other...
	() Thanks

10th November 2005, 12:46	#10
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	@veyron1, Comparing an alto with Safari is not a fair comparison. May be swift and Safari will do.
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 19:42	#13
veyron1 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,424 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	hmmm....so i'll have to make do with my gypsy for the time being to satisfy my animal instincts, eh... but speaking of roads, i don't think the roads in the cities are that different from the outback now; the rains have screwed up all the roads; so, off-roading is possible the next time you go for grocery-shopping....
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 19:48	#14
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	Tell me about bad roads. I stay in Pune. Period. Anyway, situation has improved quite a bit now and there are no more big craters on the roads.
	() Thanks

11th November 2005, 19:55	#15
nitinbhag BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 262 Thanked: 2 Times	OK.. here is thread relevant to me.. 1. Just got back from a 2500 KM Blr-Nagpur-Blr trip in my new Dicor and I can tell you THAT is a car for Indian roads. Ran into huge potholes over a 150KM stretch in Maharashtra and the Dicor hardly breaks its stride.. Had done the same trip in my Siena1.6 last year and I was crawling in 1st gear threading my way around. In fact, in the Dicor, the trip was 1 hour faster.. 2. The 200m stretch leading to my house is true offroading.. no roads, stones & mud.. Dicor revels in it.. The way Blr is going, soon we will have no roads to drive on. Only SUVs will move around.. Will do a post on the trip in a few days...
	() Thanks