Who are better designers ? Italians or British

absynthguzzler · 7th October 2010, 13:37

Range Rover - Nothing has come close to the standards set by this brand across time. Manufacturers have only tried to match it.
Lotus
Bentley
RR
Jaguar
Rover Mini ( yes , they do budget even ),
Martin Smith at Ford - another great British designer working on mainstream cars. I think the Focus is his design. \
McLaren F1 Car - Many Yrs ahead of its time before other manufacturers could come anywhere close to it in design and performance.
Peter Steven - I think he was involved with the Lamborghini design after it was taken over by Audi.

The Italians are good, the British are too. And this was only taking into discussion the automobile industry. Something being British is NOT history and they do have a lot to show in the past 30 yrs.

fz_rider · 7th October 2010, 15:08

WHOA ! The discussion seems to be hotting up ! Meanwhile , at this point , the ITALIANS seem to be the favourites . And there has to be a reason for it . We the INDIANS love FIATS , because of fiats long stint in INDIA . Secondly , most of the cars are being designed in Italy , this strengthens the case of them being the favourites . But make a note of it , WE AREN'T PARTICULARLY DISCUSSING THE CURRENT SITUATION . Both the countries have produced mind blowing cars in the past , and it will be fair if we take into account this too .

issigonis · 7th October 2010, 18:05

>>>

In today's world where nation specific symbols have almost disappeared, I think it will be very difficult to judge as to who is the better. Most designers borrow ideas and concepts regardless of national borders. You have an Ian Callum in Jaguar, a Hooydonk in BMW and a Waler Da Silva in Audi; however I can't say with certitude as to how British, or Dutch or (I guess da Silva is latin and not necessarily Italian?) respectively are their sensibilities, inspirations and design roots.

It goes without saying that the Italians bring tremendous design flair and flamboyance in their car designs whereas the British marques ( are they British anymore?) such as the RR, the Bentley and the Aston are more understated, (although the later BMWed Rolls are very in your face) and classic. The Italians also have an edge in design because of the existence of quite a few well regarded boutique design firms there.

Somehow the French have been missed out here - who can forget the designs of Opron and Bracq?

On balance however, based on sheer numbers, the Italians seem to outgun the Brits. [ Sequel to The Italian Job, perhaps?]

Regards, drive safe

P.S. : The inspiration of the Concorde design was partly based on an experimental aircraft from the now defunct Fairey Aviation Company of Britain

shankar.balan · 8th October 2010, 10:13

fact is that a very significant part of original engineering, design and technology was developed in the crucible of the erstwhile Great Britain - just look back on the last 150-200 years and anyone can see that.

Jeremy Clarkson expounds this view in several of his books - e.g; "I know you got Soul", "Driven to Distraction" etc etc and one cannot argue with the facts of the case.

sanjeev.d · 8th October 2010, 21:10

The British have class. The Italians have style. But let's not forget the efficient Germans....their cars are pretty good too.

wanderernomad · 9th October 2010, 18:06

It takes flair to make something for common man to look like eye candy and Italians have done it time and again.

Unknownsatan · 9th October 2010, 20:17

I am yet to see something which beats this design. So Italians it is for me.

bkbkr1212 · 11th October 2010, 15:26

Aren't any of the German cars good enough to include "German based" designers/manufacturers in the list?

Please note, I wanted to stress on "German based" since we shouldn't deduce that just being born in a country doesn't necessarily mean hat citizens of that country is capable of growing into a good automobile/mechanical engineers/architects/designers. (Yucks, not sure about the correctness of English there)

GTO · 12th October 2010, 14:36

The Italians without a doubt. Anyone can make expensive cars look great, Italians have the ability to make beautiful everyday cars. Actually, not just cars, Italy has great design flair built into their culture. Consider the most famous and revered fashion labels. My friends from Milan insist they'll spend on clothes first, then food.

vasoo · 12th October 2010, 14:53

Italian car for age < 30 and British/German car for age >30. Right now I prefer a Japanese car here

pgsagar · 12th October 2010, 16:19

I don't know who is better designer but I know who is not. Japs and Koreans. Look at the long list of uglies they make.

edsuede · 21st October 2010, 00:23

I'm British and consider myself to be well designed

I certainly don't think it's a simple matter of one country being better or worse than the other.

There will always be good and bad examples from every country, not least because the term 'design' can apply to many fields - looks, practicity of use, ease of maintenance, engineering etc. For example, a friend of mine owns a Ferrari that looks beautiful, but the trouble he's had working on it and the poor quality of the electrics

What I find more interesting as a foreigner looking in from outside is the way that good designs from BOTH Italy and England have contributed to life in India over the decades and have stood the test of time - i.e. the Morris Oxford and Fiat cars, Leyland trucks, the R.E. Bullet, Lambretta and Vespa for example - all well designed and highly regarded designs in their own rights.

Regards
Ed

kraft.wagen · 21st October 2010, 02:12

Gli Italiani..for their creativity and design

vrprabhu · 21st October 2010, 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

Anyone can make expensive cars look great, Italians have the ability to make beautiful everyday cars. Actually, not just cars, Italy has great design flair built into their culture.

Well said.

When it comes to the cars for daily use - be it the hoi-polloi or the upper crust, the Italian designed ones are much ahead of the rivals.

And, when you have some one like Abarth and Pininfarina in the same country, what else can you expect?

BTW, apart from cars, I think Aprilia and Ducati are also worth a mention....

But, British cars have a timeless quality to them. Rolls, Jaguar etc. 'evolve' over time - nothing by way of radical or show-stopping style. Regal is the word which comes to mind when one thinks of the British.

Mpower · 21st October 2010, 06:01

Italian designs for me. All the way from a basic Vespa scooter to a 5 lakh rupee Palio to a Alfa to Ferrari. Each one oozes with passion and design flair.

The Brits are present only in superluxury segment with Jag, RR and Aston. They have a unique style and are great in their own way. The Austins, Rovers and Leylands were nothing to write home about.

View Poll Results: Who are the better Designers ? Italians or British
Italians	94	83.93%
British	18	16.07%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

7th October 2010, 13:37	#31
absynthguzzler BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: hyderabad Posts: 651 Thanked: 245 Times	Range Rover - Nothing has come close to the standards set by this brand across time. Manufacturers have only tried to match it. Lotus Bentley RR Jaguar Rover Mini ( yes , they do budget even ), Martin Smith at Ford - another great British designer working on mainstream cars. I think the Focus is his design. \ McLaren F1 Car - Many Yrs ahead of its time before other manufacturers could come anywhere close to it in design and performance. Peter Steven - I think he was involved with the Lamborghini design after it was taken over by Audi. The Italians are good, the British are too. And this was only taking into discussion the automobile industry. Something being British is NOT history and they do have a lot to show in the past 30 yrs. Last edited by absynthguzzler : 7th October 2010 at 13:38.
	() Thanks

7th October 2010, 15:08	#32
fz_rider Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: World Posts: 1,148 Thanked: 766 Times	WHOA ! The discussion seems to be hotting up ! Meanwhile , at this point , the ITALIANS seem to be the favourites . And there has to be a reason for it . We the INDIANS love FIATS , because of fiats long stint in INDIA . Secondly , most of the cars are being designed in Italy , this strengthens the case of them being the favourites . But make a note of it , WE AREN'T PARTICULARLY DISCUSSING THE CURRENT SITUATION . Both the countries have produced mind blowing cars in the past , and it will be fair if we take into account this too .
	() Thanks

7th October 2010, 18:05	#33
issigonis BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bombay Posts: 956 Thanked: 95 Times	>>> In today's world where nation specific symbols have almost disappeared, I think it will be very difficult to judge as to who is the better. Most designers borrow ideas and concepts regardless of national borders. You have an Ian Callum in Jaguar, a Hooydonk in BMW and a Waler Da Silva in Audi; however I can't say with certitude as to how British, or Dutch or (I guess da Silva is latin and not necessarily Italian?) respectively are their sensibilities, inspirations and design roots. It goes without saying that the Italians bring tremendous design flair and flamboyance in their car designs whereas the British marques ( are they British anymore?) such as the RR, the Bentley and the Aston are more understated, (although the later BMWed Rolls are very in your face) and classic. The Italians also have an edge in design because of the existence of quite a few well regarded boutique design firms there. Somehow the French have been missed out here - who can forget the designs of Opron and Bracq? On balance however, based on sheer numbers, the Italians seem to outgun the Brits. [ Sequel to The Italian Job, perhaps?] Regards, drive safe P.S. : The inspiration of the Concorde design was partly based on an experimental aircraft from the now defunct Fairey Aviation Company of Britain
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8th October 2010, 10:13	#34
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,368 Thanked: 23,150 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/2 (8)	fact is that a very significant part of original engineering, design and technology was developed in the crucible of the erstwhile Great Britain - just look back on the last 150-200 years and anyone can see that. Jeremy Clarkson expounds this view in several of his books - e.g; "I know you got Soul", "Driven to Distraction" etc etc and one cannot argue with the facts of the case.
	() Thanks

8th October 2010, 21:10	#35
sanjeev.d BHPian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mumbai Posts: 35 Thanked: 7 Times	The British have class. The Italians have style. But let's not forget the efficient Germans....their cars are pretty good too.
	() Thanks

9th October 2010, 18:06	#36
wanderernomad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chandigarh Posts: 2,534 Thanked: 1,276 Times View My Garage	It takes flair to make something for common man to look like eye candy and Italians have done it time and again.
	() Thanks

9th October 2010, 20:17	#37
Unknownsatan Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,338 Thanked: 1,537 Times View My Garage	I am yet to see something which beats this design. So Italians it is for me. Attached Thumbnails
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11th October 2010, 15:26	#38
bkbkr1212 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bangalore Posts: 180 Thanked: 12 Times	Why Germans aren't included? Aren't any of the German cars good enough to include "German based" designers/manufacturers in the list? Please note, I wanted to stress on "German based" since we shouldn't deduce that just being born in a country doesn't necessarily mean hat citizens of that country is capable of growing into a good automobile/mechanical engineers/architects/designers. (Yucks, not sure about the correctness of English there)
	() Thanks

12th October 2010, 14:36	#39
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,534 Thanked: 300,738 Times View My Garage	The Italians without a doubt. Anyone can make expensive cars look great, Italians have the ability to make beautiful everyday cars. Actually, not just cars, Italy has great design flair built into their culture. Consider the most famous and revered fashion labels. My friends from Milan insist they'll spend on clothes first, then food.
	() Thanks

12th October 2010, 14:53	#40
vasoo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 246 Times View My Garage	Italian car for age < 30 and British/German car for age >30. Right now I prefer a Japanese car here
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12th October 2010, 16:19	#41
pgsagar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vizag Posts: 2,628 Thanked: 3,568 Times View My Garage	I don't know who is better designer but I know who is not. Japs and Koreans. Look at the long list of uglies they make.
	() Thanks

21st October 2010, 00:23	#42
edsuede BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Scarborough (North Yorkshire) Posts: 157 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	I'm British and consider myself to be well designed I certainly don't think it's a simple matter of one country being better or worse than the other. There will always be good and bad examples from every country, not least because the term 'design' can apply to many fields - looks, practicity of use, ease of maintenance, engineering etc. For example, a friend of mine owns a Ferrari that looks beautiful, but the trouble he's had working on it and the poor quality of the electrics What I find more interesting as a foreigner looking in from outside is the way that good designs from BOTH Italy and England have contributed to life in India over the decades and have stood the test of time - i.e. the Morris Oxford and Fiat cars, Leyland trucks, the R.E. Bullet, Lambretta and Vespa for example - all well designed and highly regarded designs in their own rights. Regards Ed
	() Thanks

21st October 2010, 02:12	#43
kraft.wagen BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cbe <- >Ams Posts: 978 Thanked: 329 Times View My Garage	Gli Italiani..for their creativity and design
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21st October 2010, 06:01	#45
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,730 Times View My Garage	Italian designs for me. All the way from a basic Vespa scooter to a 5 lakh rupee Palio to a Alfa to Ferrari. Each one oozes with passion and design flair. The Brits are present only in superluxury segment with Jag, RR and Aston. They have a unique style and are great in their own way. The Austins, Rovers and Leylands were nothing to write home about.
	() Thanks