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29th May 2012, 18:53 | #76 | |
Senior - BHPian | Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
All 24 F1 cars on the grid are almost 70% of similar spec! Why have engineers!? Just rent pit crews from Bernie, tires from Pirelli, buy some paint, buy some cars from FIA, paint them and go racing on Sundays. That should be great fun right!? Why bother even calling the winning team as Constructors!? For all the people who love the Pirellis, here is one more fact! Fastest lap by a GP2 car in Monaco 2012: 1:22.313 Fastest lap by a GP2 car in Monaco 2010: 1:22.179 Fastest lap by an F1 car in 2012: 1:17.296 Fastest lap by an F1 car in 2010: 1:15.192 The kids are catching up really fast | |
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29th May 2012, 20:38 | #77 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Calcutta
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| Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
Now explain it to the tens of millions of fans who feel F1 is getting boring, to the teams who have quit F1, and to the countries who feel F1 is too expensive to host. Why do you think we have more pay drivers this year, bringing in more and more sponsorship every year. It is not just increased competition. IT IS BECAUSE TEAMS NEED IT. I dont hate F1 for what it is. Far from it. I just accept what FIA have asked Pirelli to do simply because there was NO OTHER OPTION. Dont mistake the views I put across on tyres and 'the F1 show' of being my own personal one. The only form of motorsport I religiously follow is F1. I dont even watch WRC, NASCAR, INDY or MotoGP. I am looking at it as an average motorsport fan and justifying steps the FIA have taken. You are forgetting, all who watch the sport are not F1 super geeks like us. Last edited by Hatari : 29th May 2012 at 20:40. | |
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29th May 2012, 22:26 | #78 | |
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
F1 is expensive to host? Thats a new thing I heard. It's not the countries that run the track, it's the owners. Not every track is open for trackdays and speed runs, so it's expensive to upkeep the track. Advertisers pay for the big day not for year around campaign. There are other counties to take their place, Thailand might soon get its track ready. Teams are commercial entities and will always have need for money to run the teams, today you can see Team Lotus in the nth avatar since dawn of F1. Merc selling its engine tech to teams lower down the order, so does Renault. Honda and BMW for that matter Jaguar left the sport as they did not see returns not that they were losing money. F1 is the biggest banner for advertisers and a car company's dream avenue. Its been always the case that drivers were financially backed and so the seat is not always reserved for fastest driver, but again, fastest talent doesn't get overlooked. These companies later sell the same technology to bigger buyers and make their profit. Flappy paddle shifters, ceramic carbon brakes, energy recovery, new age car design with less drag and better protection all have come from F1 and sipped sports. We are having a healthy discussion to hey tyres are a weak spot this time around. Artificially every car can be quick, points to Merc right now or Red Bull last year. But I still love the era of Senna with turbo charged engines and manual shifters. But safety has taken precedence for good. Now we can only wait and see how Pirelli perform in Montreal. The fight from Driver is missing that's all and that hurts. Instead of going full throttle they are waiting for pits and for rain to make up time. | |
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30th May 2012, 11:21 | #79 |
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| Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Asr245 and Hatari's stand on the tyres is on very weak ground.I think they've reached a point where they've invested too much in this opinion to even consider that they were wrong. -> Its public knowledge that drivers who are racing even in first and second place are not pushing their cars. Maldonado and Rosberg both admitted to not pushing hard throughout the races that they won and even in Monaco. This is against the very essence of motor racing. Its ok if the drivers are conserving their tyres for a part of their stint or maybe even an entire stint altogether, but a whole race ? That is a complete mockery of the sport. -> Their other point, of the 'crowds' coming back to F1 is also completely wrong. They're sadly taken in by Paul Hembrey's comments and take that as gospel. F1 had great viewership figures in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. The tyres never were the reason for viewership figures in the sport, rivalries between teams and drivers were. Let us consider this aspect for a moment : sustainaibility of the sport. Who are the most popular drivers in this sport ? Lets have a list 1. Michael Schumacher 2. Lewis Hamilton 3. Kimi Raikkonen 4. Fernando Alonso Why are these drivers popular among the fans ? It is because of their unrivalled ability to extract every last inch out of the car, to push to the limits of adhesion, make daring overtaking moves on their opponents, and outfox the grid with gambles on strategy. More than anything else, its their ability to do lap after lap on the limit that gives them the above abilities, and this attracts fans to these drivers. ...And then came in Pirelli. They have neutralized many of the great skills that seperate the men from the boys. Earlier when Bridgestone/Michelin/Goodyear started degrading, the drivers on worn tyres still had some hope of defending their place because the tyres never fell off a cliff, degradation was always linear. If a driver made an attacking late braking move on the car in front, he may flatspot the tyre occasionally, but they would still have enough life in them for the drivers to attempt the overtake again and again till they succeed or fail in the process. This is motor racing. Not some stupid DRS wing stalling when the defending drivers tyres are 3 seconds off optimal pace with no grip in which to take corners decently without losing an apex of a corner. Now we have tyres that can only be pushed so far, so any and all innovation in the cars that can give a great team of engineers an advantage after days and months of toil is immediately negated. This is why we see pay drivers in rank midfield teams grabbing podiums out of nowhere because they lucked into the right temperature on raceday. How long before all the fans see through the haze and smoke and see modern F1 for what it is ? How long before the young, new fan of F1 realizes that all drivers are simply in a race tiptoeing around trying to save their tyres instead of using all their human ability and the physical constraint of their car to go as fast as possible ? The day the new fan realizes the true picture of this brand of F1, they will leave the sport forever and badmouth it for eternity because this is not racing. Its a test of patience. You call this brand of F1 sustainable ? Seriously ? Inspite of knowing that every aspect of this version of the tyres is preventing drivers and engineers from doing their job, you still think its exciting ? Are you WWE fans by any chance ? I think that would explain the need for entertainment. Tomorrow, if the tennis federation decides that all players will have to play wearing curly toed slippers, which will hinder the likes of Nadal, Federer and Djokovic and make for closer matches between everyone, will you be excited ? This is an analogy to F1 in its present Pirelliwashed form. |
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30th May 2012, 12:57 | #80 | |||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
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Why excellent tracks like Nurburgring, Magny-Cours, Imola, Estoril are ignored...!? Quote:
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The FIA is only doing more damage to the sport in the name of improving the show! I would agree with Sniper on what Bernie really cares. Its the TV audience, tracks have always been full! PS: Please dont use bold fonts! | |||||
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30th May 2012, 13:48 | #81 | ||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurgaon
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| Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
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And PuntoMania, please get off your high horse and enough of these references to "new" fans and WWE. I am an ardent F1 fan and have been for 8 years and have seen enough races from the past (80s and 90s - whatever I could find through torrents). Of all the sports I watched, this was the only one I couldn't give up after marriage. My weekends are planned around race times. Now, if a new variable has been thrown in the mix of F1 and engineers haven't found a handle yet, so what? Doesn't mean F1 has been Nascar-ized or GP2'ed. Change is constant and sooner or later, engineers will find a handle or things will change again (like the no tires changing rule). Either way, I am hooked. BTW, I also was a marshal at Indian GP 2011 and plan to do it again this year. And while you enjoy one aspect of the race (drivers on the limit), some of us enjoy the other more (for now - as I agree overtaking has gone the other way - earlier it was far too difficult to overtake - now it's much too easy barring high aero tracks). Is it that difficult to comprehend that someone can enjoy F1 and yet differ from yours views? (Or for that matter MS - for me he's a proven cheat, as good as he might have been) Last edited by asr245 : 30th May 2012 at 13:52. | ||
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30th May 2012, 14:29 | #82 | |||
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| Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
I'd like you to prove atleast one of these allegations, since the cornerstone of your argument is that the fans love it : 1. Do you have proof that the viewership figures in 2012 are far higher than 2006,07,08,and 2010 ? 2. Do you have proof that the pancake Pirellis is the sole reason for this supposed increase in the viewership ?(if any) 3. Do you have solid evidence that fans 'love' this racing, by which I presume you seem to imply a good majority of F1 fans are in love with the way the situation is at present ? Or is it all just 'I think' ? Quote:
I think thats where we differ as motorsports fans. I (along with many more fans) wont stand by watching a sport kill itself by trying so hard to be entertaining that they forget that it is a competitive sport. Quote:
Since you've been watching F1 only since 2005 (i.e after Schumacher's prime), I dont blame you for having such an ignorant and one dimensional opinion about the legend. | |||
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30th May 2012, 14:44 | #83 | |||||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
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30th May 2012, 15:36 | #84 | ||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Calcutta
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| Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
That does not grow on trees. Pay drivers bringing in upwards of USD $32million to a single team is new to F1. Quote:
This is a tire thread, I am defending FIA's decision on the current Pirellis. | ||
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30th May 2012, 15:52 | #85 | ||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurgaon
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| Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
About torrents - please do. Really, always happy to watch some more. Quote:
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I am sure someone will post these figures as and when they come out. Or I will post them as and when I find them. As far as point 3 is concerned, I never implied majority are for it. Infact going by this forum majority seem against it. Anyway, some fans on this forum are for it and some aren't. Same in the Williams forum I visit except that most seem to favor it. So, I will assume it at 50-50 for now. You are welcome to post these figures if you find them. I am sure FIA will be quick to respond/change if they feel things haven't gone the way they predicted to go. Quote:
PS: Like I said I watched many races from 80s, 90s too but you too are welcome to provide me with some torrents to change my opinion. Last edited by asr245 : 30th May 2012 at 16:12. | ||||
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30th May 2012, 15:54 | #86 | ||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
1. Advance form of Motorsport - Not anymore. F1 was pinnacle of motorsports. The GP2 cars are only 5 seconds slower than the cars from F1. The only thing special about F1 now is the powerful V8s and that will be history next year too. 2. $400M an year from Bernie's pocket to the teams. You are wrong if you thought he did and also thought that the teams use those funds to run their teams. Quote:
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That is one reason, we have Valencia & Singapore on the calendar! | ||||
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30th May 2012, 16:21 | #87 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Calcutta
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| Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? ^^ Lower race lap times on account of tires does not mean all of a sudden F1 is any less advanced Pl think in terms of engineering. $400 million is what Ferrari, McLaren were spending in a year, it has dropped marginally now. The overall teams earnings from TV rights/track fees etc amount to around $800 million (which comprises 47% of total FIA earnings from the sport). By way of the pay drivers, I was referring to the current economic scenario and lower team sponsorship earnings overall. Do read up on countrywise issues for race hosting. |
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30th May 2012, 17:37 | #88 |
Senior - BHPian | I think we are moving away from the real topic and discussing pay drivers and various tracks. If we as the patrons of sport are ready to endure it we happily find ways. However, if Bridgestone or Michelins promoted their road going tyres for tested in Formula 1, sure Pirelli won't do it. I don't want to use a tyre that goes off at a certain temperature. Cheers! |
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31st May 2012, 11:47 | #89 | |||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
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31st May 2012, 12:29 | #90 | |
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| Re: F1-2012: How many times did you hear that 'Tire Management' is critical? Quote:
Oh btw, countries don't have to fund the F1 circus. The Indian GP is a great example. Just like the top teams get a good deal on the money front, the top tracks should have something deserving. There is no point in keeping a track like Bahrain or Korea or Abu Dhabi if you have to axe Spa, Nurburgring or Silverstone. Work out a formula to take more from these new tracks (India included) to make sure the classics are there "for the sake of honour". | |
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