2014 Canada GP - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race Thread

ashwin.terminat · 9th June 2014, 21:01

Perez has been handed a 5-place grid penalty for changing his racing line.

This image from Reddit makes it very hard to argue against the FIA's decision.

2014 Canada GP - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race Thread-.jpg

Vid6639 · 9th June 2014, 21:33

I don't think Perez deserved the penalty. If you look at the on board footage from Perez there was no steering input indicating that he swerved left. He was merely maintaining a tighter line into the turn by not turning into the right hander before the sharp left. Think Massa just got too close thinking Perez would allow him through. This is racing and not the first time with Massa. He could have waited for the hairpin or the chicane just before start-finish line; maybe but that is in hind sight.

About the Mercedes. Pretty coincidental that both cars had MGU-K failure at pretty much the same time. Because of MGU-K they lost power and no longer had resistive braking from the MGU-K. All braking force was going to the rear brake discs and rear braking was not being shared with the friction brakes and MGU-K. As a result the rear brakes overheated and failed on Lewis's car. Looks like they reduced the size of the rear brakes for weight savings since braking was being done by MGU-K as well as regular brakes.

Ok Lewis brakes failed but hats off to Rosberg. He drove with a car that was short on power and with reduced rear brakes. To prevent overheating of brakes he had to change the brake bias all the way to the front. This means the fronts lock up easily and the rear will always want to slide out. To top it off loss of power. Takes insane amount of skill to pull off a P2 when you are down and power and brakes not being effective.

Not just driver skill but this also shows how superior the Mercedes engine is. To be in P2 with the MGU-K not working and just regular V6 power is astonishing. This basically means a Mercedes without MGU-K power is nearly same as all other cars with MGU-K. That's the advantage Mercedes have.

zenren · 9th June 2014, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I don't think Perez deserved the penalty. If you look at the on board footage from Perez there was no steering input indicating that he swerved left. He was merely maintaining a tighter line into the turn by not turning into the right hander before the sharp left. Think Massa just got too close thinking Perez would allow him through. This is racing and not the first time with Massa. He could have waited for the hairpin or the chicane just before start-finish line; maybe but that is in hind sight.

Rules for direction changes to defend position dictates that you are only allowed to change your path once while defending the position. In this case, Perez was initially on the left of the racing line and started converging towards the racing line as shown in the image (frame #3) posted by ashwin.terminat which meant he already exhausted his one defensive move at that point. The next move towards the left and into Massa's path was the second directional change which is not allowed as per the rules.

anachronix · 10th June 2014, 08:43

Even if Perez was moving in-out of the racing line, Massa was never side by side to Perez at any point going into T2. He was behind Perez, there was no reason for Massa to bump into the rear of Perez's car unless Perez braked too early going into the T2 braking zone or Massa was carrying too much speed going into the braking zone.

Its not a wet track with poor visibility that moving in-out of the racing line could cause a crash from poor visibility, it was hot & dry and these guys are not taxi drivers, Massa should have been prepared as he could see Perez trying to attack Vettel back staying off the racing line all the way going into T2. Two stupid drivers taking out each other while racing and the third stupid from FIA joins the party.

The aerial footage shows Perez trying to get on Vettel's mirrors and Massa trying to turn back into the racing line a little too late. It was a racing incident, FIA should have left it there.

https://vine.co/v/MD0BgJYVeam

asr245 · 10th June 2014, 11:37

It was a very late change in direction by Perez. The image shows the racing line is towards the left. Usually driver turns left for the racing line. But Perez didn't. He went straight. That for me is a change in direction, in this case, a very late change in direction. He should be using his mirrors more. But as usual, he thinks he's not at fault. Very Maldonado-ish. And very dangerous. Deserves much more than a 5 place grid penalty.

BTW, Felipe registered a 27G crash!!
And this is what Smedley thinks about FI.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3...retired-perez/

shashi63 · 11th June 2014, 14:45

I am very happy for Daniel!

I did predict that Vettel will have more than Renault Reliability issues to contend with this season a while back. Daniel has sprung a big surprise and its a pleasant one to say the least.

The Drive by Nico showed everyone that he is no push over and is an extremely talented driver and it's a pity he did not have the right car earlier or I am sure he would have more wins to his tally.

Button catching up in the end was huge surprise. Such a smooth driver, I wish he can throw a few surprises this season.

Hatari · 11th June 2014, 16:41

The argument continues on Twitter between them, inspite of the FIA announcing who's right :
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/162421.html

Perez had no business being off the racing line with Massa so close behind him, its not like he was attempting to pass Vettel.. so getting into his mirrors was pointless.
Perez probably braked earlier as well, given the condition of his brakes and tires.

9th June 2014, 21:01	#31
ashwin.terminat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,711 Thanked: 2,192 Times	Re: 2014 Canada GP - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race Thread Perez has been handed a 5-place grid penalty for changing his racing line. This image from Reddit makes it very hard to argue against the FIA's decision.
	(2) Thanks

9th June 2014, 21:33	#32
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,477 Times View My Garage	Re: 2014 Canada GP - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race Thread I don't think Perez deserved the penalty. If you look at the on board footage from Perez there was no steering input indicating that he swerved left. He was merely maintaining a tighter line into the turn by not turning into the right hander before the sharp left. Think Massa just got too close thinking Perez would allow him through. This is racing and not the first time with Massa. He could have waited for the hairpin or the chicane just before start-finish line; maybe but that is in hind sight. About the Mercedes. Pretty coincidental that both cars had MGU-K failure at pretty much the same time. Because of MGU-K they lost power and no longer had resistive braking from the MGU-K. All braking force was going to the rear brake discs and rear braking was not being shared with the friction brakes and MGU-K. As a result the rear brakes overheated and failed on Lewis's car. Looks like they reduced the size of the rear brakes for weight savings since braking was being done by MGU-K as well as regular brakes. Ok Lewis brakes failed but hats off to Rosberg. He drove with a car that was short on power and with reduced rear brakes. To prevent overheating of brakes he had to change the brake bias all the way to the front. This means the fronts lock up easily and the rear will always want to slide out. To top it off loss of power. Takes insane amount of skill to pull off a P2 when you are down and power and brakes not being effective. Not just driver skill but this also shows how superior the Mercedes engine is. To be in P2 with the MGU-K not working and just regular V6 power is astonishing. This basically means a Mercedes without MGU-K power is nearly same as all other cars with MGU-K. That's the advantage Mercedes have. Last edited by Vid6639 : 9th June 2014 at 21:58.
	(1) Thanks

10th June 2014, 08:43	#34
anachronix Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madras Posts: 3,286 Thanked: 1,336 Times View My Garage	Re: 2014 Canada GP - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race Thread Even if Perez was moving in-out of the racing line, Massa was never side by side to Perez at any point going into T2. He was behind Perez, there was no reason for Massa to bump into the rear of Perez's car unless Perez braked too early going into the T2 braking zone or Massa was carrying too much speed going into the braking zone. Its not a wet track with poor visibility that moving in-out of the racing line could cause a crash from poor visibility, it was hot & dry and these guys are not taxi drivers, Massa should have been prepared as he could see Perez trying to attack Vettel back staying off the racing line all the way going into T2. Two stupid drivers taking out each other while racing and the third stupid from FIA joins the party. The aerial footage shows Perez trying to get on Vettel's mirrors and Massa trying to turn back into the racing line a little too late. It was a racing incident, FIA should have left it there. https://vine.co/v/MD0BgJYVeam
	() Thanks

10th June 2014, 11:37	#35
asr245 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 1,162 Thanked: 389 Times	Re: 2014 Canada GP - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race Thread It was a very late change in direction by Perez. The image shows the racing line is towards the left. Usually driver turns left for the racing line. But Perez didn't. He went straight. That for me is a change in direction, in this case, a very late change in direction. He should be using his mirrors more. But as usual, he thinks he's not at fault. Very Maldonado-ish. And very dangerous. Deserves much more than a 5 place grid penalty. BTW, Felipe registered a 27G crash!! And this is what Smedley thinks about FI. http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3...retired-perez/
	() Thanks

11th June 2014, 14:45	#36
shashi63 BHPian Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: THANE Posts: 206 Thanked: 246 Times	Re: 2014 Canada GP - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race Thread I am very happy for Daniel! I did predict that Vettel will have more than Renault Reliability issues to contend with this season a while back. Daniel has sprung a big surprise and its a pleasant one to say the least. The Drive by Nico showed everyone that he is no push over and is an extremely talented driver and it's a pity he did not have the right car earlier or I am sure he would have more wins to his tally. Button catching up in the end was huge surprise. Such a smooth driver, I wish he can throw a few surprises this season.
	() Thanks

11th June 2014, 16:41	#37
Hatari Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 1,872 Thanked: 874 Times	Re: 2014 Canada GP - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race Thread The argument continues on Twitter between them, inspite of the FIA announcing who's right : http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/162421.html Perez had no business being off the racing line with Massa so close behind him, its not like he was attempting to pass Vettel.. so getting into his mirrors was pointless. Perez probably braked earlier as well, given the condition of his brakes and tires.
	() Thanks