[schakravarthy]

I've been a Rossi fan ever since I started watching GP, way back in 2000-2001. It's been Rossi and only Rossi all these years. Never ever have I rooted for another rider.
But even I'm finding the Rossi 'support' a bit um..suffocating. It reminds of the Fiat 'support'. The pro-team is so vocal that it puts-off the others, even if they initially had some love for the rider.

All the guys racing are exceptional; if not they wouldn't be there, would they? I'm sure they race for the love of racing and they respect each other enough to put their lives on the line during close overtakes.

So, can we please rest the 'my-guy-is-strongest' arguments and enjoy the racing? They don't indulge in petty 'who's best' arguments; why should we?

[MonsterPatrol]

I'll stick to my previous comment. Rossi is NOT what his fans make him look like. His domination in the sport ENDED in 2005. After that he's been among the winners and a champion twice surely but his competitors have done better than him. Facts back this up. You might give him countless titles saying he is this he is that but this is entirely your own assumption of him and there is absolutely NOTHING to back your claims.Nothing you say can change what is there in the results. Even if Rossi is accepted as you make of him to be then he would have done something and not let Jorge win 4 on the trot on the same damn bike. He couldn't even get a sniff of Jorge for what 103 laps since Jerez? Like since 4 race weekends over almost a couple of months? Not once. The post by Jaykis having 21 titles to Rossi's name is given by YOU all not him and you cannot back a single one of them forget all.If you can I'll be happy to acknowledge it. I really don't understand what puts you people off regarding ctrl paste. Whatever is pasted or posted is true and not made up to suit a particular rider's statistics.

[mayankk]

Well, some ride into the sand, and some into the sunset.

Ps: One last thing. None of us, or at least me, we're not reveling in Rossi's performance as a dominator, like he was was when we started following him.
We're just amazed at his drive and his cajunas to still be able to take it to the supposed performers at this dusk of his career. To still be in the front runners when champions have come, won/lost, left. It's like wishing tendulkar that World Cup.
At the very least, I'm speaking for myself.

[badri]

Before I give my 2 paise, let me declare my allegiance. I've been a long time fan of Rossi ( from 2004 to be precise) and still 'am. However, I'm a bigger fan of Lorenzo in the past few years..I guess it is ok to be fan of two stars at the same time.

While there are lot of posts in this thread that I feel are driven by emotion than logic, the one that got me to submit this post was the cribbing on Lorenzo disappearing at front, not being a true racer etc.

Every rider out there would prefer to run the race at front and disappear rather than involve in fairing bashing.They may say that they enjoy fight, have fun etc..but given a choice, they would rather disappear into horizon and take the chequered flag!

Everyone including Rossi, Marquez, Stoner, Pedrosa etc have done it in the past whenever circumstances suited..I don't know why Lorenzo is singled out when he runs away at front.. probably for the reason that he does it much better than others.

And for those who say that he cannot fight, overtake etc..I'm sorry to say but either you are too biased or you don't know your motogp well. He is one of the most aggressive riders out there and I feel that sometimes he is a bit over the limit..this is especially true in the first few laps, when he makes up places at will.

Just check the video below and decide for yourself..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPV5Lg9IN7Y

[MonsterPatrol]

This is not part of the previous discussion. I've been a Lorenzo fan since mid 2008 but my respect just grew for him ten fold when Rossi fractured his leg in 2010 and out of the weekend and in hospital.Jorge finished second in that race and wore a VR46 T Shirt on the podium at a time when they were arch rivals.True sportsman spirit. Proper proper guy.Love him for that.

[badri]

Looking back at the season till now, I feel sorry for Marquez's team for the situation he is in. Assuming that he kept his cool during the three races that he fell, he would have been (at worst) 2nd in Argentina, 4th in Mugello and 3rd in Catalunya.. That is 49 points he could have kept and would have been just 20 points adrift of Rossi!

If the bike improves from now on and he still loses the championship, he has no one to blame but himself.

"Sure I can finish the race 20 seconds behind but you know it is not my style." he said after his latest crash. This is narcissism at best.

[MonsterPatrol]

Honda is in real trouble. They went back to testing last year's chassis in Catalunya test today.Thats a step backward. Unfortunate for marquez though. A 3 way battle to the title would've made it even more exciting. But still 11 races to go, things can change. Do not rule out honda, they will fix their problem and fast. And they've already fixed corner entry.Marc needs to be more patient that's all. Nakamoto missing this weekend, some major revamp going on at HRC.

[ebonho]

Dont agree. Its far from narcissism or immaturity.

Its simply a racer racing.

Something some others on the grid dont have the stomach for. Unpalatable as it may be to their supporters.

I said it before, and maybe its a good time to repeat.

There are racers and there are time trialists.

And what we are seeing is a matchup between a supreme time trialist and a quintessential racer. On equal machinery.

Two different routes to a championship. And one point between them.

I have nothing against time trialists personally. They compete how and with what they can.

And even win some championships along the way.

[JayKis]

I too believe it is a racer thing. It is all about trying to win.

Something some others on the grid dont have the stomach for. Unpalatable as it may be to their supporters. - Happened from 2011-2012 for 36 races consecutively

An article from Crashnet -From the horse's mouth!

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/220...ot-enough.html

Valentino Rossi must beat team-mate Jorge Lorenzo if he is to retain his MotoGP title lead next time out at Assen.

29 points ahead of Lorenzo after winning two of the opening three rounds, Rossi's advantage now stands at just a single point following four successive wins for the Spaniard.

The latest came at Catalunya on Sunday, when Rossi again paid the price for qualifying on the third row.

Rossi crossed the finish line just 0.8s from Lorenzo, having lost one-second to his team-mate on the opening lap alone. Lorenzo built a lead of 1.6s after five laps, 2.0s after ten laps, with his advantage peaking at 2.3s on lap 12 of 25.

Momentum then swung towards The Doctor, with Lorenzo's lead slowly eroded before Rossi sliced half-a-second in one go on lap 19. That left Lorenzo only 1s clear and set the scene for a repeat of their thrilling 2009 showdown.

But it wasn't to be. Lorenzo responded with three laps remaining and while Rossi pulled back 0.3s on the final lap he couldn't quite get within striking distance.

“There were one or two moments where I thought I could catch Jorge,” Rossi said. “I tried to make a calculation and I think I can arrive maybe on the last lap. But it was not enough. For him it was better like this. For me it was a shame because I think a battle could have been very hard and funny to watch.”

Rossi, who took four laps to advance from seventh to second, admitted: “Unfortunately when you have Jorge in this type of shape it is very difficult to win from the third row. When I arrive into second place I already had 1.5s [to Lorenzo] and it is very difficult to recover this disadvantage.

“So we have to concentrate on qualifying, try to start in the top five. Unfortunately it is not easy. This time I had the potential for a top five qualifying but I didn't ride well enough. The other problem is that in qualifying you have a lot of bikes that are fast for one lap [on the soft Open class tyre] and slower in the race. But Jorge has my bike and tyres and he is able to put some riders between me and him on the grid. So we have to work.”

Finishing behind Lorenzo is something Rossi can no longer afford in terms of the title lead.

“I have been in first position from the first race and it is important to resist,” said Rossi, seeking a tenth title in his 20th season of grand prix racing. “But now the difference is just one point, so to keep the lead it means I will have to arrive in front of Jorge and that is difficult.

“From the other side, I'm happy because this was an important race after three quite difficult races. Here was better because from Saturday morning I was really quite strong. This gives us good confidence.

“Now we will take a rest and go to Assen, a great track everybody loves, but different conditions. A lot of grip but especially the weather. You never know at Assen.”

[MonsterPatrol]

Honda's issues this year similar to the ducati crisis.Last year Marc masked the problems with his skill. Identical to stoner when he did the same at ducati. Teams thought, what could be wrong? We are still winning arent we? Ironically Nakamoto still doesnt agree with marc that the problem is related to an aggressive torque curve.But they solved that noticable twitch as they powered out of the corners which was more evident in mugello. The difference has been ducati with their overwhelming topspeed that has intimidated HRC.Marc sensed trouble in 2014 valencia test itself saying if we continue this setup we will have trouble next year.

Having said that, Im really disappointed with scott redding's performance. I had high hopes from him since he got Marc van der schrotten to put all his money on one bike on the grid with the package similar to marc,ped n cal. He has been inconsistent throughtout and not delivering enough for Marc VDS to continue another year in the most expensive category. Will we ever see a british win in the premier class anytime soon? Only if danny kent can work some magic.

Originally Posted by Thirugnnanam

Jorge Lorenzo often complains that his victories do not receive the recognition they deserve.

What?! Forgive me for raising it but this is a blatant lie. Show me one article where Jorge has said this and I shall shut my mouth. I request our members to let him answer this first. Thanks.

[JayKis]

Originally Posted by MonsterPatrol

Honda's issues this year similar to the ducati crisis.Last year Marc masked the problems with his skill. Identical to stoner when he did the same at ducati. Teams thought, what could be wrong? We are still winning arent we? Ironically Nakamoto still doesnt agree with marc that the problem is related to an aggressive torque curve.But they solved that noticable twitch as they powered out of the corners which was more evident in mugello. The difference has been ducati with their overwhelming topspeed that has intimidated HRC.Marc sensed trouble in 2014 valencia test itself saying if we continue this setup we will have trouble next year.

Having said that, Im really disappointed with scott redding's performance. I had high hopes from him since he got Marc van der schrotten to put all his money on one bike on the grid with the package similar to marc,ped n cal. He has been inconsistent throughtout and not delivering enough for Marc VDS to continue another year in the most expensive category. Will we ever see a british win in the premier class anytime soon? Only if danny kent can work some magic.

Marc season is looking very similar to Stoner's season on the ducati post 2007. Binning it by trying to win it. The racer's ego!

Originally Posted by MonsterPatrol

Honda's issues this year similar to the ducati crisis.Last year Marc masked the problems with his skill. Identical to stoner when he did the same at ducati. Teams thought, what could be wrong? We are still winning arent we? Ironically Nakamoto still doesnt agree with marc that the problem is related to an aggressive torque curve.But they solved that noticable twitch as they powered out of the corners which was more evident in mugello. The difference has been ducati with their overwhelming topspeed that has intimidated HRC.Marc sensed trouble in 2014 valencia test itself saying if we continue this setup we will have trouble next year.

Having said that, Im really disappointed with scott redding's performance. I had high hopes from him since he got Marc van der schrotten to put all his money on one bike on the grid with the package similar to marc,ped n cal. He has been inconsistent throughtout and not delivering enough for Marc VDS to continue another year in the most expensive category. Will we ever see a british win in the premier class anytime soon? Only if danny kent can work some magic.

Yeah. You are pretty right on Honda trying to match Ducati and thats probably were the downfall happened.

Scott Redding had his best finish in Catalunya. The problem is all these guys are limited by machinery. There is only so much they can do with the limited resources available with them. Racing is a money losing sport and and unless you have deep pockets, one cannot survive in the game. Thats why the factory teams always wins. Last win by a satellite bike rider -Toni Elias in Estoril in 2006 on Dani Pedrosa's tyres (because Dani on the factory bike didnot like the tires he got for that race (the days of the fly by night specials ))just pipped Rossi/Kenny Roberts Jr to win the race!

David Noyes:
While Honda voices, Nakamoto and Suppo, rear up and defend the engine, overruling the guys who ride the bikes, both riders continue to say, although quietly now, that the basic problem comes from the aggressive character of the engine.
I think Honda has tried to match the sheer grunt and top speed of the Ducati in spite of spotting them 7 engines, 2 liters of fuel and the added RPM that these advantages permit. Yamaha, led by Lorenzo and with the added experience of the very adaptable Valentino Rossi, have sought corner speed, and smooth power delivery.
If you want to make a lot of power at high revs and you have less fuel to play with than a rival whose engineers are at the same level as yours, you end up with a very lean mixture at mid range, meaning when the rider gets back on the gas the power hits hard and, if your rider in on maximum or almost maximum lean when the horses hit, the rush of push loads the front working the tire and, now and then, ends up pushing the front so drastically that it folds. That can either be a crash or a confidence-breaking fright.
The Ducati engineers can program a richer initial mix because they have 20% more fuel.
The other danger in trying to match Ducati revs is what happen in COTA. Something started to break or broke…something in the RC213V wanted to come out for air…the warning light came on…Mark jumped the wall and amazed us, but we have not seen that engine again. My best info is that Marc was told it would´t be back…but from somewhere floated another rumor in the Media Center, saying that the engine was still sealed, being studied and might still be available at the end of the season for some limited duty in rain practice. Maybe.
But Hondas were as fast or faster than Ducati in the first two races and after the engine problem they have not been fastest again. The Dorna speeds are valuable for year to year comparison but the real times are known only to the teams. Ducati persons speaking under condition inn anonymity have confirmed to me the Brembo speeds of last year of over 360 kmh in Mugello and COTA…in fact the Dorna on screen GPS speed of 361 was briefly seen over Dovizioso´s Ducati. But we don´t need confirmation of what can clearly be seen. The Ducati is faster. If you give an elite race department such advantages you can only beat them in pure power if your elite group is smarter and with more development potential. It does not seem that Honda has been able to overcome the big handicap that the rules they accepted have given Ducati…and they are determined to take those advantages away in 2016 whether Ducati wins a race this year or not.
Meanwhile, while the Honda spins, the Yamaha, with its softer initial power delivery, gets off the corner so well and accelerates so well because of this that the extra speed of the others is not enough to get them from apex to apex in less time along a straight. Yamaha never fell into the trap of matching Ducati top speed, revs and pure power. That was never the Yamaha way even in the two-stroke days…remember the Yamaha riders used to talk about "the Honda lane." Now Honda pull out into the Honda lane and Ducati are there…coming hard. If Ducati riders had lights they´d flash them…like on the autobahn when you think you a mphre pretty fast at 125 mph and suddenly you have a disco in your mirrors.
Electronics cannot overcome a 20% disadvantage in energy, nor can electronics allow five engines to rev as high as 12 engines used over an 18 race season.
And that is without going in to engine braking, a problem that should, in theory, be more vulnerable to electrickery. We say in the States "Nothing beats cubes." Well, nothing beats more gas and more motors either…not down the straights anyway.
Sure Honda have some rolling chassis problems, but they can fix those. But Marc wants to get on the gas earlier without upsetting the bike. Take a look at some of those lowsiders and ask your self…did he just get on the gas when it went?

[badri]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Dont agree. Its far from narcissism or immaturity.

Its simply a racer racing.

The stakes out there are much bigger than the racer himself.

1. There is a team working 18 hrs days to give him bike which can win / get some podiums. It is possible that the team's incentives, bonus's may depend on what Marc does.
2. There is an organization (HRC) spending millions of dollars, hiring hundreds of people to run the team. They are as concerned about team championship and manufacturers championship as they are about the rider championship
3. And then there are sponsors...

If Marc would like to dump his bike in pursuit of his individual style, fully aware that he is much slower ( according to his own admission) it qualifies to extreme self centered behaviour / narcissism.

To a large extent, all racers have self centered behaviour. It helps to be competitive..but it does not mean that you completely ignore the team's priorities.

[ebonho]

Badri, that's what a racer does. Race.

When he's on the track, in the battle, his pit crew's bonuses are somewhere low down in his immediate mentation.

And he's not the first, nor will he be the last. If every racer was pragmatic and sensible about his machinery's limitations then we'd not need Moto GP. A dyno and banks of computers would suffice.

Happily such is not yet the case.

Put a racer in a wheelchair, he'll look for the nearest wheelchair dude to race.

Put a time trialist in a wheelchair, he'll figure out the most efficient line around the ward.

[Mashblue]

There is no denying teams need the financial support from the sponsors,
1. Why does a racer always wear a cap with a sponsor soon after taking off his helmet post-race.
2. Why do they carry their helmets to the podium.
3. Why do many crashers get back on track even after they know they can't score a point?
All because they know the importance of sponsors, without whom there would be no development possible.
Marc crashed and refused to pick up the bike and run the rest of the race - Sponsors wont be amused, heck i would be furious if i was putting huge money for a tiny spot on the bike's fairing, for which the rider doesn't give a damn.
P.S: it really cant be as simple as "a racer racing" because he is not the one who has put down money for the ride or development of the team and crew members.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Mashblue

There is no denying teams need the financial support from the sponsors,
1. Why does a racer always wear a cap with a sponsor soon after taking off his helmet post-race.
2. Why do they carry their helmets to the podium.
3. Why do many crashers get back on track even after they know they can't score a point?
All because they know the importance of sponsors, without whom there would be no development possible.
Marc crashed and refused to pick up the bike and run the rest of the race - Sponsors wont be amused, heck i would be furious if i was putting huge money for a tiny spot on the bike's fairing, for which the rider doesn't give a damn.
P.S: it really cant be as simple as "a racer racing" because he is not the one who has put down money for the ride or development of the team and crew members.

Ask any sponsor or manufacturer who they'd put their millions on.

The reason Marc makes millions and his pit crew looks for bonuses is that Marc races.

There are very fast riders out there who never make the grid but still earn a very decent living going round and round a track a million times very fast.

They are called factory testers.

P.S. Adding further fuel to the fire, I actually think Jorge caused the crash. At that level, at that speed, on that kind of edge, you back off a millimeter, you shift an inch, and its enough to cause what we saw.

I'm not part of the Ctrl C/V brigade needing their daily mainline fix of Moto GP (or Crash Net) dot com (and regurgitate it elsewhere to look knowledgeable) so I don't really know whether anyone has spoken about it or even questioned it. But to my eye, Marc's reaction after getting up was not (only) frustration/irritation at himself. And after the finger wagging he got from the senior superstar in his early days, he wasn't about to take him down .....