[badri]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Yup!!!!!!

Can you now????

T-BHP members please note; in all of the above - I have not once:

- Called Rossi names
- Berated him, his talent or character in any form

But have still managed to cheer for / stand up for a human rider; capable of making miracles happen, who I so much admire

It can be done!

Well said!

Some things don't seem to change. From my perspective, despite the fact that I shared a few videos showing Lorenzo fighting tooth and nail, displaying some aggressive riding, people still call him arcade racer, time trial racer etc. I respect their freedom to express but I can't understand the logic.

Take the Sachsenring race for instance. Lorenzo pulled out one of the most audacious overtaking maneuvers in the recent times and overtook Marquez etc on the outside. He took the fight to Rossi and regained his lead after being overtaken (for a short time though). I understand if one calls him a loser (for not being on podium) but I don't think it is correct to brand him a rider who does not fight.

It is good to see some arguments and counter arguments but it also needs a bit of open minded approach to keep the discussions healthy.I have a hunch that this name calling, soft trolling is going to continue but I will not be reacting any more.

[Parth46]

Whoa! MotoGP is taking a summer break, let's take one ourselves, shall we? And chill out with some frozen yogurt or something.

The 6 second video that you shared applies to others/us as well, cos as the recent discussion has moved to just this season, there is no point in once again referencing things that have been discussed long back.

Audacious maneuvers are all fine and dandy if they help you win the race in maybe the final turn of the final lap, but one good overtake doesn't amount to much if one ends up in the 4th position and faces challenges during most part of the race, and gets easily picked off by several riders - just my opinion, feel free to disagree and move on.

And pardon me, but I don't see any name calling or anything over the last few posts, so let's just move on mate.

Cheers, let's take a breather, and here's to Indianapolis.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I don't like Marquez. I think he's a kid who's a sore loser. Disappointing after the amount of love and respect he's gotten from a God.

I am sorry, but I didn't spot any behavior from MM, on the track or off it which should get a response like this.

What should he have done? Opened the gates for Valentino, that yeah, you are my hero, please take the lead.

I do like Valentino, I really do, just don't make me hate him with comments like this Doc, please

And give the kid his due, he was always smiling & joking instead of other riders who are sulking.

And really happy with Rossi's 3rd place. At least he has the lead & was ahead Lorenzo. I do not like Lorenzo.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I am sorry, but I didn't spot any behavior from MM, on the track or off it which should get a response like this.

What should he have done? Opened the gates for Valentino, that yeah, you are my hero, please take the lead.

I do like Valentino, I really do, just don't make me hate him with comments like this Doc, please

And give the kid his due, he was always smiling & joking instead of other riders who are sulking.

And really happy with Rossi's 3rd place. At least he has the lead & was ahead Lorenzo. I do not like Lorenzo.

He was clearly avoiding Rossi post race, pointedly so. If that's not sulking and being a sore loser I don't know how you would define one.

What's he grumpy about? He's acting like a kid who's been spanked by an elder for getting too frisky.

Which in a way he was. Not once but twice.

All niceness ends on the track. If you want to act the buffoon in a race and do stupid things, don't expect an easy let off from hardened guys like Rossi.

Don't do into a frump after that.

I repeat. He's coming across like a sulking kid who tried throwing his weight around and got his back side spanked.

Time to grow up sonny boy. This is the big league. And you are a long way down.

P.S. Lorenzo is a lot more grown up than Marquez is. He's seen the light where Rossi is concerned. Maybe Marquez will too. Or maybe he'll become another Biaggi, Gibernau, Stoner. Time will tell. He won't get a second chance, and as I said after the last race, all smile and laughter and racer respect aside, he's a marked man now after the thigh lunge.

[killjoy]

Originally Posted by ebonho

He was clearly avoiding Rossi post race, pointedly so. If that's not sulking and being a sore loser I don't know how you would define one.

What's he grumpy about? He's acting like a kid who's been spanked by an elder for getting too frisky.

Which in a way he was. Not once but twice.

All niceness ends on the track. If you want to act the buffoon in a race and do stupid things, don't expect an easy let off from hardened guys like Rossi.

Don't do into a frump after that.

I repeat. He's coming across like a sulking kid who tried throwing his weight around and got his back side spanked.

Time to grow up sonny boy. This is the big league. And you are a long way down.

P.S. Lorenzo is a lot more grown up than Marquez is. He's seen the light where Rossi is concerned. Maybe Marquez will too. Or maybe he'll become another Biaggi, Gibernau, Stoner. Time will tell. He won't get a second chance, and as I said after the last race, all smile and laughter and racer respect aside, he's a marked man now after the thigh lunge.

Dude, you know me and I am a HUGE fan of Rossi but the above is ridiculous. He won the race, he did not need to avoid anyone! If anything, the doctor should have gone up to congratulate him.... Come on man, give the kid his due. He was out to prove a point and he did it in style. Once Rossi retires, there will be few who can match Marc. (Maverick Vinales is one I can see shining in a few years - mark my words!)

For 2015, its Rossi all the way!!!

But wait for it. In 2014, Marc won the opening nine races, whats to stop him from winning the remaining 8 races this season post the break? You never know. I have not been more happy to see a championship fight like this in a few years....and I am Rossi also needs this to keep him going....

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by ebonho

He was clearly avoiding Rossi post race, pointedly so. If that's not sulking and being a sore loser

He was avoiding Rossi [Assen] and Rossi didn't congratulate him [Germany] evens?

Originally Posted by killjoy

If anything, the doctor should have gone up to congratulate him.... Come on man, give the kid his due. He was out to prove a point and he did it in style.

Like Killjoy, I absolutely adore Rossi, but I also have a world outside him.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Sheel

He was avoiding Rossi [Assen] and Rossi didn't congratulate him [Germany] evens?

The onus is on Marquez. This is not a battle of equals here. You may agree to disagree, but I've said my piece.

As I said before, its best to show people their place. And keep them there. Niceness is seldom appreciated, often misconstrued, verily abused.

[Sheel]

Yes, winning the Moto-GP championship on one's debut is not enough. And in a season which had 3 world champions. And then the year following it.

Rooting for Rossi for 2015, but keeping fingers crossed.

[Parth46]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Yes, winning the Moto-GP championship on one's debut is not enough. And in a season which had 3 world champions. And then the year following it.

Rooting for Rossi for 2015, but keeping fingers crossed.

Absolutely not trying to take any side here, and obviously no-one can deny that MM's the reigning World Champion - however, will add that his behavior this season has not been of the level of a world champ, in my PERSONAL opinion. Reckless and dangerous driving on many occasions, potentially ruining other rider's races, and clearly behaving like a child when someone gets the better of you.

Again, no-one can deny that he's just 22 and a world champ to boot, but with that title comes a responsibility to be a better role model as well. The Assen incident with Rossi is just the most recent one- what about the several other times this season when in his desperation to run thru the grid, he has nudged and almost taken out 2 Aprilia's and 1 Suzuki, in Argentina and other races earlier this year. Many riders have raised voices as well, though not officially.

Rossi was himself a World champ on debut in a particular class, when MotoGP moved from 500 CC 2-strokes to 1000 CC 4-strokes in 2001; that grid had some world champions as well - and that was arguably a bigger overall jump, than MM jumping from a lower MotoGP class to the premier one. Just a point to ponder. Thanks.

Not saying anyone has a point to prove, but a few things clearly stand out.

Cheers

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Parth46

Rossi was himself a World champ on debut in a particular class, when MotoGP moved from 500 CC 2-strokes to 1000 CC 4-strokes in 2001; that grid had some world champions as well - and that was arguably a bigger overall jump, than MM jumping from a lower MotoGP class to the premier one. Just a point to ponder. Thanks.

Glad someone said what never needed to be said but had to be said in the face of some pretty over the top fawning here.

Marquez is nothing special. Not when some try to boost him on to a pedestal that truly belongs to only one, and will be that one's for quite some time to come. Probably long after the current crop hang up their boots.

He's won two titles, on a runaway superior bike with daylight between it and the next best on the grid. Does that make him great? Far from it. But to hear some here, he sounds like King Tut, instead of someone who in reality has just risen that far enough as to latch on to Papa's coattails.

The first sign of a fightback, and he starts crashing all over the countryside, proving to be a risk not only to himself but others on the grid. Not just a risk for precious points for which each team spends millions and slaves, but risk to life and limb.

In the face of that, if a old man turns around and spanks his bottom, instead of taking in in his stride as a precious internship under the GOAT, he sulks and pouts like a kid.

Sorry, but let me say it out again. I have no respect for Marquez post this frankly juvenile display. And I suspect Papa is tired of him as well.

[Urban_Nomad]

Someone on the track is not aggressive; does not realy "fight" = Time trialist / Arcade racer

Someone who does fight = Reckless and a danger to others

Doomed if you do; doomed if you dont

I am sure some will point rather quickly towards "having the right balance" and being aggressive "to a point". Who decides that? Race direction. If the Authority assigned to give verdict on track etiquette feels so; they will take necessary action. Till then; no harm no foul. Marquez is not reckless and is as safe as the next rider on the grid

Lastly; Guys at the very back are cribbing about the guys at front ..... SHOCKING!!!

And havent riders been complaining about Rossi's aggression on the track all throughout his career? But wait; they are cry babies, MOANERS (ring a bell?) and everything else that is wrong with the universe

Rossi brigade - I salute you!!!!

[ebonho]

Errrrrr ..... "aggressive" was not exactly the word I had in mind. But I agree it sounds more becoming than the alternative.

Can't speak for the rest of the "Rossi brigade."

Please note post that race not one commentator mentioned anything about Rossi either having a problem with aggression or being any less than supremely able and ready to deal with such.

Even if the aggression were to actually be buffoonery.

What Rossi (or his brigade) has little time for is sore losers. Especially those that cry or moan their laments for all who care to listen after not getting what they wanted or felt was due to them.

That gets tiring pretty quickly.

[badri]

Originally Posted by Parth46

Rossi was himself a World champ on debut in a particular class, when MotoGP moved from 500 CC 2-strokes to 1000 CC 4-strokes in 2001; that grid had some world champions as well - and that was arguably a bigger overall jump, than MM jumping from a lower MotoGP class to the premier one. Just a point to ponder. Thanks.

Not saying anyone has a point to prove, but a few things clearly stand out.

Cheers

Can't be farther from truth my friend! If any, the move from 500cc 2 strokes to 1000 cc 4 strokes made the riding more easy. Wider power band, electronics control, easy nature on tyres all resulted in a very welcome and easy transition to the riders.

In 2002 Rossi had it relatively easy by having the best bike on the grid by a large margin and a team mate (Tohru Ukawa) who was not very strong (not a champion in any class). Also, there was only one other premier class champion on the gird - Kenny Roberts Jr.

Marquez on the other hand had Pedrosa as team mate and no less than 3 premier class champions on the grid! The bike was better than competition but not at the level of superiority that the 2002 RC211V enjoyed.

Coming to the class comparison, moving from a lower class to motogp is always the toughest because the competition is on a different plane altogether. This is the culmination level where all the top riders land up and even the best are made to look daft at times. Look at the performances of Bradl, Pol, Redding now. They were scintillating in lower classes and are looking mediocre (at best) now.

All this points to the sublime talent of Marquez that resulted in his extra ordinary achievements in his debut year. I don't think this will be repeated in the near future.

I don't like him to beat the Yams but I do enjoy watching him ride. It's like watching Wasim Akram bowl in the early 90s. You hate him for messing around with your favourite team but admire the mercurial talent that comes by once in 2 or 3 decades.

[Hatari]

Originally Posted by ebonho

He's won two titles, on a runaway superior bike with daylight between it and the next best on the grid. Does that make him great? Far from it. But to hear some here, he sounds like King Tut, instead of someone who in reality has just risen that far enough as to latch on to Papa's coattails.

The first sign of a fightback, and he starts crashing all over the countryside, proving to be a risk not only to himself but others on the grid. Not just a risk for precious points for which each team spends millions and slaves, but risk to life and limb.

In the face of that, if a old man turns around and spanks his bottom, instead of taking in in his stride as a precious internship under the GOAT, he sulks and pouts like a kid.

Sorry, but let me say it out again. I have no respect for Marquez post this frankly juvenile display. And I suspect Papa is tired of him as well.

How about the last race then? Bike still country miles faster than Rossi's?

Hmm.. He's 22. Wonder when its ok to crash and learn from your mistakes at the highest level.

Sulking? Really? that's a problem?
"Find me someone who's happy to lose after a battle that has your rival taking the gravel and it just about being legal, and i'll show you a loser."

Rossi is a legend no doubt, and MM is not. But wasnt Marc younger than him when he won his first title? Comparing Rossi at 22 to Marc now can you still say the former was faster?

No harm in being a Rossi Fanboy, but why bring this young star down?

[ebonho]

Seems its time for the Marquez fanboys to come out of the woodwork now, since the Jorge ones (as predicted) have retreated quietly back into the dark recesses from which they tentatively emerged into the sunlight to bask in the sudden spate of victories.

This too shall pass.

Papa meanwhile has a job to do. No time for babysitting yet. Yes the new found pace of the Hondas is a concern, but he does not sulk and moan and whine. He races the wheels off his M1, harrying Pedi till the end. And then smiles determinedly, looking forward to the tracks to come. Obviously the next 3 weeks wiil not be spent only eating spaghetti and meatballs.

I must give credit where its due though. For the number of votes garnered collectively by the Jorge and Marquez fanbois here (sorry got the spelling wrong the first time around), when the situation turns favorable (depending which way the wind blows or the gravel tumbles), they surely do punch a lot above their (collective) weight.

But as Papa has proven for near two decades now, he alone is more than enough.