[sun_king]

Originally Posted by GTO

<snip>

Ferrari has gone mad. As someone else had commented on the Chinese race thread, it's about time they realise that this Schumacher + Barrichello setup (no.1 and no.2) doesn't work anymore.

Here is the team hierarchy for the post-Schumacher (Ferrari) era. The championship winning teams had the #2 driver established by mid-season.
2007 - Kimi #1, Massa #2
2008 - Lewis #1, Heikki #2
2009 - Button #1, Barrichello #2
2010, 11,12,13 - Seb #1, Webber #2
2014,15 - Lewis #1, Nico #2
2017 - Lewis #1, Bottas #2
Only in 2016 Rosberg upstaged Lewis who should have been the alpha-driver. But then the 2016 Merc was so dominant that they could afford to fight it among themselves, the third placed driver was almost 130 points short compared to the Merc pair.

So is it logical to discredit the alpha-driver system?

When was the last time Ferrari won a world / constructors championship? If Ferrari wants to become a 'dream team', they will have to give equal treatment to both drivers, else no top guy will be willing to team up with Vettel.

I would say that Kimi has a car in 2018 that can win races. So it is logical to expect Kimi to come second when Seb wins or fight for the win when Seb is down. The last time I saw Kimi put a fight for a win was in a Lotus. It would be hasty to say that Kimi is given sub-par equipment, his performance on track is more of an indicator that his racing days are things of past.

And what if Vettel gets hit by a bus?

This is the Ferrari #2 driver we are talking about, he is expected to step up and take charge. 1999, Shumi got hit by the bus and Irvine nearly won the championship (undone by the missing fourth wheel, for me it was the incompetence of the Ferrari crew that made Irvine lose it - some say it was deliberate too ). Any top team's #2 driver should be able to handle the competition should the alpha become incapacitated!

[SilentEngine]

Originally Posted by sun_king

Here is the team hierarchy for the post-Schumacher (Ferrari) era. The championship winning teams had the #2 driver established by mid-season.

2010 - Seb #1, Webber #2

I don't think 2010 should be in this list. 2010 was Vettel's first season with RBR and he never led the championship till he actually won it in the last race! Was he really #1 then? He was trailing Webber for majority of the season.

[glikithvinayaka]

Originally Posted by sun_king

Here is the team hierarchy for the post-Schumacher (Ferrari) era.

Redbull and Mercedes have always let their drivers fight it out on track. Only some specific occasions where team order came into play.

Webber himself in an interview last year said vettel was just faster than him plain and simple.

Hamilton and Rosberg were always allowed to fight it out on track. In 2014 and 2015 the championship was decided in the second half of the season.

2010 was Vettel's first season with RBR and he never led the championship till he actually won it in the last race!

Seb's first season with Redbull was 2009 where he finished runner up to Button.

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

I don't think 2010 should be in this list. 2010 was Vettel's first season with RBR and he never led the championship till he actually won it in the last race! Was he really #1 then? He was trailing Webber for majority of the season.

The 2009 season (Seb's first season with Red Bull, as pointed out by glikithvinayaka) had established that Seb is the championship material and Webber as probably a spent force. Webber's fighting spirit was evident in 2010, but even then he was beaten by Seb in 10 out of 15 times both Red Bull cars finished. Seb was the really dominant driver in the second half of the season and he would have led Webber had it not been the engine failure in Korean GP, the 17th race out of 19. Maybe the team orders were not there in place for 2010, but it was Seb the emerging alpha-driver and Webber was too nice of a person to demand it in terms of seniority in the team!

[fz_rider]

Canadian Nicolas Latifi stated he wants to enter Formula 1 next year. He has been with Renault and Force India as test driver. His father has pumped in 200 million dollars into McLaren. Thats maybe a move to get him a seat.

[ChiragM]

Originally Posted by fz_rider

Canadian Nicolas Latifi stated he wants to enter Formula 1 next year. His father has pumped in 200 million dollars into McLaren. Thats maybe a move to get him a seat.

Rumours suggest both Alonso and Vandoorne may not drive for McLaren next year. Vandoorne is not having a great season trailing behind in points. Meanwhile, Alonso could leave F1 as he is not getting a competitive car. He seems to be fed up.

If this happens, McLaren could get both Latifi (thanks to the money) and Lando Norris in.

If Alonso leaves, they would not have any senior experienced driver in the team.

[glikithvinayaka]

Red Bull has decided to switch to Honda F1 engines next year, high level sources have revealed, with confirmation of the move likely ahead of this weekend's French Grand Prix.

Although the Milton Keynes-based team had been expected to wait until the Austrian GP to make its final call on the 2019 engine decision, indications now suggest that senior management has made its mind up.

Following close evaluation of the performance steps made by both car manufacturers over the Canadian GP weekend, and well aware that Renault could not guarantee it could keep its engine supply offer open, Red Bull is set on committing to Honda.

It is understood its decision was communicated to external parties late on Monday night.

Red Bull was unavailable for comment, and it is unclear when the move will be made official, but there are suggestions it could come before this weekend's race in Paul Ricard.

Motorsport.com understands that Red Bull has elected, after more than a decade with Renault that yielded all its world championships, to throw its focus in with Honda instead.

Source

[Hatari]

Unconfirmed reports that Red Bull Honda deal is done for 2019 and beyond.
Another dagger in McLaren's heart.. how could they get it so wrong

[ChiragM]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Unconfirmed reports that Red Bull Honda deal is done for 2019 and beyond.
Another dagger in McLaren's heart.. how could they get it so wrong

This was expected. There were reports of Red Bull shifting to Honda power last year when Toro Rosso announced their partnership. They were observing Honda's performance with Toro Rosso to take a decision.

It is well known that Red Bull and Renault have not been on great terms lately due to the issues with the engine. Red Bull was looking to change the engine and Honda seems to be the (temporary) solution. Expecting a 2-year contract to be signed.

2021 could see Red Bull being powered by an Aston Martin engine, if things work out as planned.

[Hatari]

Originally Posted by ChiragM

This was expected. There were reports of Red Bull shifting to Honda power last year when Toro Rosso announced their partnership. They were observing Honda's performance with Toro Rosso to take a decision.

It is well known that Red Bull and Renault have not been on great terms lately due to the issues with the engine. Red Bull was looking to change the engine and Honda seems to be the (temporary) solution. Expecting a 2-year contract to be signed.

2021 could see Red Bull being powered by an Aston Martin engine, if things work out as planned.

There was no reason to shift last year when they had Toro Rosso.

In addition to the performance gains this year, I doubt Red Bull will be paying for engines. It will be a works deal of sorts. Which translates to another $15-20 million saved.

Im still shocked that McLaren could get the decision so wrong with all the latest GPS tech etc available.

[fz_rider]

Honda and Red bull racing looks to have confirmed deal for the next two years.

Source: https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/amp/18676

[ashwin.terminat]

Honda confirmed the deal - as did Red Bull.

I just wonder if Red Bull will be able to hold on to both Verstappen and Ricciardo with this development. They will definitely be wary of the reputation Honda has built over the past 4 years.


The Renault engine has been pretty strong this year. Just hope Honda matches up to the Renault they had at the back of the Red Bull for so many years.





And yes, it is a 2 year deal.


Source: https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2018/c180619eng.html

[shibujp]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...l-1046751/?s=1

This is a great achievement for Honda in the battle between engine suppliers. Apparently Red Bull would still continue racing under the Aston Martin banner. Also the fact that Honda would get it's engine into one of the best chassis in F1 may prove to be a true test of it's engine building capabilities. For Red Bull, having Honda dedicated to both it's teams would effectively amount to having a dedicated engine supplier whose interests are not divided over a works team.

Originally Posted by Hatari

Unconfirmed reports that Red Bull Honda deal is done for 2019 and beyond.
Another dagger in McLaren's heart.. how could they get it so wrong

McLaren has looked increasingly ragged over the last few years seemingly basking in past glory rather than show much in terms of results. They spent the better part of last year blaming Honda for all their woes. Come this year their lack of prowess on the chassis side has been clearly exposed and they are resorting to laying off key personnel. It might also be that Honda's failings were exaggerated by McLaren to ensure that it's internal issues remained under wraps.

There are a lot of things wrong in that camp and precious little has to do with the cars or engines.

Drive on,
Shibu

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by glikithvinayaka

Red Bull has decided to switch to Honda F1 engines next year, high level sources have revealed, with confirmation of the move likely ahead of this weekend's French Grand Prix.

The driver's market has suddenly become very, very interesting with this move. Riccardo may look at Mercedes with Bottas looking at Red Bull if he is out of a seat. Verstappen? Alonso? Some American drivers courtesy Liberty Media?

Wow! Interesting times ahead.

[anachronix]

Cross posting from AS forum.
Ferrari might just hold on to Kimi for 2019 and wait for Leclerc to settle down a bit more in F1 or take the risk of giving the young man a seat for 2019.

Dan might just be at RB and I am sure, a team like RB won't make such a crucial decision without necessary analysis. If anything, STR Honda is their guinea pig in order to prepare for 2019.

Honda might just surprise the paddock with RB in 2019 leaving orange faces red

Ted Kravitz on Sky website (Honda article) regarding Ricciardo:

Paddock gossip suggests Ferrari bosses Sergio Marchionne and Maurizio Arrivabene don't regard the jokey Ricciardo as their type of driver and are concerned his appointment would destabilise Sebastian Vettel. For Mercedes, signing Ricciardo could attract a whole new fanbase and freshen up the team's image but it appears they prefer the quiet life with Valtteri Bottas.

The question for Mercedes is what happens if Lewis Hamilton suddenly decides to leave, but Mercedes argue that if that happened every driver would be prepared to rip up their contracts, so everyone would be available, anyway!

So for the time being, it looks as if the star driver of 2018 so far has no real options other than to stay at Red Bull, regardless of their engine choice, or move to McLaren if Fernando Alonso departs, a move which would be good for the bank balance but not so good for his chances of winning races.