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Old 3rd August 2018, 17:51   #61
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2019 Silly Season

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The silly season just got sillier.

Daniel Ricciardo leaves Red Bull racing for Renault!
http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/242...renault-switch

Now why would he do that. Hope he hasnt left in a huff.

Prime Red Bull seat now up for grabs. Is Sainz that lucky?

Wow. Didn't see that one coming. As a comment put it:
"Renault? The team whose car isn't as good as its best customer?"


But yes, this isn't 2018 we're talking about. 2019 is Red Bull with Honda engines. We don't know what that combination will bring. And Ricciardo is probably wary of that as well.


What we have seen is Honda engines not having any real performance. We have seen Renault string together some strong performances with Hulkenberg. Will be interesting to see what Ricciardo can do with a mid-field car.


One of the hallmarks of the legends is the ability to pull them from the mid-field to the top. Will be a unique challenge for Ricciardo.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 17:58   #62
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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
The silly season just got sillier.

Daniel Ricciardo leaves Red Bull racing for Renault!
http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/242...renault-switch

Now why would he do that. Hope he hasnt left in a huff.

Prime Red Bull seat now up for grabs. Is Sainz that lucky?

He was probably frustrated with the treatment he got from the team! And it's not like Red Bull have a serious championship contender at the moment. Except for few tracks they are well behind Ferrari/Mercedes. On top of that, car is unreliable and Honda switch next year is a gamble. But primarily he is tired of playing second fiddle to Max. The cracks were visible for quite some time now.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 18:43   #63
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2019 Silly Season

Hoo boy what a great season this is shaping up to be.

This is a risky bet sure but let's look at the pros & cons.

Cons:
-leaving the proven pedigree that exists at RBR (regardless of the PU they have been in a class of their own as the best beyond the top 2 factory teams)
-Renault are still not comfortably best of the rest (Haas imo) so you'd be counting on a big improvement from them
-leaving a factory team in a sense (RBR-Honda for 2019 onwards)

Pros:
-guaranteed #1 at a factory team (Cyril Abiteboul has shown that he is serious. They've been aggressively hiring key technical players including the contentious hiring of ex-FIA technical director Marcin Budkowski - a man who surely has the inside line on a lot of innovations. Morally dubious but ruthless move that shows intent)
-not having to deal with the machinations of RBR management and especially Dr Marko (basically not becoming a Webber 2.0 to their current golden boy Max)
-not having to deal with a Honda PU (this is an open ended one. Honda have certainly shown improvement with Torro Rosso and with another chassis Honda might make bigger gains, but can Danny afford to risk 2 prime years?)
-only a 2 year contract. Meaning he would be ideally positioned for what is going to be the mother of all silly seasons in 2020, when the huge regulation changes kick in.
-probably on big or just as big money as RBR.

Summary:
Danny has taken a risk and Cyril has pulled a blinder on the rest of the grid. Renault get arguably one of the finest racers on the grid, someone who can really elevate their prospects. It's also the best yardstick to measure themselves against the other front running teams in Enstone's quest to get back at the pointy end. I would say Renault are just the same bet as RBR-Honda next year. As supreme as the RBR chassis will undoubtedly be, and the superb pit crew and general infrastructure of that team, the Honda PU continues to remain a big what if. I'm sure many of us would love to see 3 or 4 leading teams with different star drivers and manufacturers behind them. Most importantly though this just makes 2020 insane considering the opportunity will be there for one driver on the grid to pull a Hamilton in terms of moving to a team that could end up dominating under the new rules. Remember everyone that Lewis was pilloried for leaving the guaranteed prowess of Mclaren at that time for the as yet uninspiring Mercedes outfit but look where we are now. Renault could very well be playing the long game here.

Side effects:
This is where things get interesting. Ocon seems to have been the bait in this entire game and his chance of a move to a top team for now appears to be kaput. Carlos meanwhile looks unlikely to move to RBR as Horner has said that Max and Carlos had too fractious a relationship at Torro Rosso. That opens the door for young Gasly to make the jump up to the big leagues. Pierre's certainly acquitted himself well. It would be intriguing to see such a young line up at a leading team. Is Max really mature enough to play lead driver? Understandably he's still prone to the odd outburst. Carlos meanwhile could end up at Mclaren if Fernando Kimoa Alonso finally leaves the sport as he's been telegraphing all year. Mclaren could save major dollar from Nando's wages to invest back into the engineering staff and with Carlos on a cheaper deal, combined with Stoffel, they would have 2 competent though not outstanding drivers to lead them as they laboriously make their way back to the pointy end of the grid.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 22:12   #64
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Default Formula 1 - The 2019 Silly Season

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Carlos meanwhile could end up at Mclaren if Fernando Kimoa Alonso finally leaves the sport as he's been telegraphing all year.


Carlos Sainz is a Redbull driver on loan to Renault. It would be unlikely for him to continue in Renault or any Renault powered cars next year, considering that Redbull and Renault have parted ways, so in all likelihood he should end up in a Honda powered car (RBR or ToroRosso).



The key to remaining seats:

Raikkonen - assumption is that he continues at Ferrari. Otherwise Ferrari have to settle for a pick from second rung of drivers - Leclerc/Perez etc.



Alonso - another year of struggle or sayonara?



Let the musical chairs begin!

Edit: Hulkenberg is confirmed at Renault.

Last edited by SilentEngine : 3rd August 2018 at 22:39.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 23:14   #65
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2019 Silly Season

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I think, contrary to all the hype around Ricciardo staying back at Red bull, he'll leave the team. He looks frustrated, and soon will become another Webber if he stays at Red bull. McLaren looks like the only choice for him right now, with a big unknown in terms of Redbull-Honda alliance. McLaren will pay him big !
I didn't expect Renault. In terms of payday comparison, McLaren is a match to Ferrari and Mercedes. But I guess, Ricciardo was looking for a stable constructor. McLaren is going through transition, they can't have Alonso and Ricciardo both at same time, if Fernando decides to stay. The Red bull Honda is a big question mark.
The move looked inevitable watching the progress of Red bull in first half. He looked frustrated !
Good for him! Hope he wins a championship, and Renault provides him with a winner.
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Old 4th August 2018, 05:17   #66
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2019 Silly Season

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Its all in interest of overtaking. The front wing is the culprit, creating turbulent air. Simpler one will help car follow, and aid over taking.
Overtaking did improve this year as the teams started improve their car designs. And give it two more years, cars will become much more closer. FIA knows this best. Yet, they want to fix everything in haste.
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Old 4th August 2018, 12:09   #67
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2019 Silly Season

For the first time, Redbull doesn't have a pool of drivers for a drive in top sport. They had to go for Hartley, a 30 year old rookie. So if Gasly moves to senior team, there is a good chance, for an all new pairing at Toro Rosso.
On the contrary, Daniel's move might give some breathing space to Brandon, some good results may help him save his place.
No matter how fractious the team becomes, Sainz is best bet for RBR. He has good adaptability, and he pushes the car. But Gasly just might get the place, he knows the Honda.
An out of the box move may be, Alonso to RBR, now that would be fantastic.
Whatever, it is, exciting times ahead ! How will the whole Force India situation affect the market? Will Kubica make a comeback? It was sad to see a talented driver like Weherlein not having a drive, maybe he gets another chance. 7 seats gone, 13 to go !
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Old 4th August 2018, 19:06   #68
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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Carlos Sainz is a Redbull driver on loan to Renault. It would be unlikely for him to continue in Renault or any Renault powered cars next year, considering that Redbull and Renault have parted ways, so in all likelihood he should end up in a Honda powered car (RBR or ToroRosso).



The key to remaining seats:

Raikkonen - assumption is that he continues at Ferrari. Otherwise Ferrari have to settle for a pick from second rung of drivers - Leclerc/Perez etc.





Alonso - another year of struggle or sayonara?



Let the musical chairs begin!

Edit: Hulkenberg is confirmed at Renault.

I am quite sure that Carlos has some clause in his agreement that states that if RBR cannot promote him to RBR senior team he can get out of the whole contract that Red bull has on him. So he is no way racing for Torro Rosso. Which also explains as to why he was being approached by McLaren, in the event that Ric continues in the senior RBR team.

With Ric no more in the picture, it looks like it would depend on what RBR want. If they want Sainz for the senior team, then all remain happy. If they do not want him, then he goes to McLaren for sure.

And with Ferrari, if Kimi stays then Leclerc goes to Haas and Romain is out of F1. And probably Giovinazzi steps in to Sauber.

If Ferrari did not make the move for Ric, then it looks like Kimi is going to stay. I would be very surprised if they get Leclerc, it would be way too soon for him and Ferrari have never got someone so young in to the team so early. Leclerc can always go to Haas, and make the transition in 2 years time.
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Old 4th August 2018, 21:11   #69
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I am quite sure that Carlos has some clause in his agreement that states that if RBR cannot promote him to RBR senior team he can get out of the whole contract that Red bull has on him.

Agreed. Basically RBR has an option on him till September. If they don't exercise it he will be free to go anywhere else.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/f...r-market-.html
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Old 5th August 2018, 18:25   #70
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Default Formula 1 - The 2019 Silly Season

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Agreed. Basically RBR has an option on him till September. If they don't exercise it he will be free to go anywhere else.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/f...r-market-.html

Some reports now quote that Max is not keen on having Sainz as his team mate. I do not think there is any truth to this, but you know, its the silly season! And even if it was true, I would attribute it to the way Sainz talks off the track, which might be something Max does not like. Max is pure raw talent, he does not like off track trash talks. Which is why in spite of all the on track contacts, Ric and Max got along just fine. Because both these guys just race. They do not indulge in diplomacy and talk like some other drivers.
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Old 6th August 2018, 11:45   #71
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2019 Silly Season

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Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat View Post
What we have seen is Honda engines not having any real performance. We have seen Renault string together some strong performances with Hulkenberg. Will be interesting to see what Ricciardo can do with a mid-field car.


One of the hallmarks of the legends is the ability to pull them from the mid-field to the top. Will be a unique challenge for Ricciardo.
One of those rare times in F1 that no one has thought of as a possibility, everyone was just so carried away with the Merc/Ferrari link.

Frankly, I dont think Renault have the resources in place to mount a serious title challenge in the coming years. 5 years into the new PUs and they continue to struggle! Honda are almost at par.

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He was probably frustrated with the treatment he got from the team! And it's not like Red Bull have a serious championship contender at the moment. Except for few tracks they are well behind Ferrari/Mercedes. On top of that, car is unreliable and Honda switch next year is a gamble. But primarily he is tired of playing second fiddle to Max. The cracks were visible for quite some time now.
Honestly I cant recall a single instance where Red Bull favoured Max over Ricciardo on track. They have always been very fair.

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Carlos meanwhile could end up at Mclaren if Fernando Kimoa Alonso finally leaves the sport as he's been telegraphing all year. Mclaren could save major dollar from Nando's wages to invest back into the engineering staff and with Carlos on a cheaper deal, combined with Stoffel, they would have 2 competent though not outstanding drivers to lead them as they laboriously make their way back to the pointy end of the grid.
I would prefer Stoffel to Carlos. Would rather have Lando in the team should Alonso leave.
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Old 6th August 2018, 13:15   #72
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Honestly I cant recall a single instance where Red Bull favoured Max over Ricciardo on track. They have always been very fair.

In Austrian GP qualifying there was argument over the radio about who should get the tow, and Ricciardo was quite vocal about that when his request was turned down. Whether he was right or wrong, or what was discussed before in the team is another matter.

But more than what happened on track, I think he found himself in a situation where he believed he was the lead driver, scoring most of the points for the team (few months ago he had good points lead over Max), but the team didn't think that way. And to have a contract that gave him a fraction of what Max gets means they don't value him as much as Max. Nobody knows how much of an improvement the new contract was going to be, but Horner/Marko were basically saying he should just take what the team gives him and he has no where else to go.

What's interesting is how the relation going to be in remaining races. Still a lot of races to go in the season. A wild possibility of mid season swap of Ricciardo with Gasly/Sainz? It would actually benefit everyone involved, except Sainz who may be left high and dry if Gasly is preferred over him.
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Old 6th August 2018, 17:13   #73
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In Austrian GP qualifying there was argument over the radio about who should get the tow, and Ricciardo was quite vocal about that when his request was turned down. Whether he was right or wrong, or what was discussed before in the team is another matter.

But more than what happened on track, I think he found himself in a situation where he believed he was the lead driver, scoring most of the points for the team (few months ago he had good points lead over Max), but the team didn't think that way. And to have a contract that gave him a fraction of what Max gets means they don't value him as much as Max. Nobody knows how much of an improvement the new contract was going to be, but Horner/Marko were basically saying he should just take what the team gives him and he has no where else to go.

What's interesting is how the relation going to be in remaining races. Still a lot of races to go in the season. A wild possibility of mid season swap of Ricciardo with Gasly/Sainz? It would actually benefit everyone involved, except Sainz who may be left high and dry if Gasly is preferred over him.
In Austria, Ricciardo wanted to change the Qualifying order and go after Max. This is alternated every weekend and it was not Max's turn to lead out. So in fact it was Daniel who was asking for special preference, not equal.

The Max extension seems to be the only point which ticked him off.

What spoilt it I think was McLaren's desperation to sign him and offer him the big bucks. He played one team against the other and got Renault to give him a really good deal. I doubt if McLaren were ever a serious contender. Obviously Red Bull were not going to triple his pay.

Gasly vs Sainz will be a very interesting choice for Red Bull. The latter may have lost favour due to his earlier keenness in staying with Renault.

Last edited by GTO : 7th August 2018 at 08:59. Reason: Correcting typos
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Old 8th August 2018, 11:46   #74
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Force India is set to move out of administration, by consortium of investors led by Canadian businessman Lawrence Stroll.

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Stroll, whose son Lance races for Williams, is joined in the consortium by Canadian entrepreneur Andre Desmarais, Jonathan Dudman of Monaco Sports and Management, fashion business leader John Idol, telecommunications investor John McCaw Jr, financial expert Michael de Picciotto and Strollís business partner Silas Chou.

They take over from previous owners Vijay Mallya, Subrata Roy and the Mol family.
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Old 8th August 2018, 20:09   #75
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So some more seats filling up. Its now almost confirmed that Stroll would move to Force India and they would probably name the team something else. I think Perez keeps his seat in the same team since he too brings in sponsors and there have also been reports that he made a deal with the new set of owners. Even otherwise, Perez has very limited set of options, so I think he stays where he is.

This also means that Ocon will surely now move to Williams, alongside probably Mercedes Junior driver Andre Russell. This also coincides with Mercedes and Williams coming together for a relationship like that of Haas and Ferrari. So effectively Williams becomes the B team of Mercedes. Its actually time they had one considering Ferrari and Redbull have their B teams too. In fact Ferrari has very close ties with Sauber and Haas. And with the Alfa Romeo brand involved with Sauber, I expect them to move up the Grid a little bit.


But the most anticipated decisions are that of Ferrari and RBR. Would Ferrari retain Kimi? Looks more and more likely.

And what would RBR do? Get back Sainz or take a gamble by getting Gasly? Or would they do something very radical like get a senior driver like Alonso? Very unlikely. Not RBR style.

If Ferrari retain Kimi, then Leclerc goes to Haas, Romain gets chucked out. And Giovinazzi gets the seat at Sauber.
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