[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

As long as humans are going to be taking decisions, whether it is stewards in F1 or referees in football or judges in real life, there is always going to be disimilar outcomes to what seems to be similar situations.

Yes, humans are going to make mistakes, hence football decided to get VAR and it played a crucial role in world eliminating "Human Mistakes". In this case the stewards are the VAR but they decide to not penalise a clear cut infringement based on lame excuse points from Mercedes.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Bad stewarding more than anything else.

First the delay in investigating, then providing a long-winded justification that opens a can of worms.

F1 desperately needs a permanent stewards panel. Good calls or bad, let's at least have consistency.

I agree completely. And the decisions should be black and white. If it violates the rule which they said it did. Then it should be a penalty. Like it was Raikkonen in 2016. See the official FIA statement on that incident. It is like violated rule xxxxx, hence punished with 5 second penalty that is black and white.

Originally Posted by aim120

The problem with a permanent steward panel is that overtime, the same will be said from fans of their respective teams, if the result of the investigation doesn't favour them, there will also be comments like " xy team bought the steward panel".

Mercedes fans where unhappy in the previous two races when the ferrari drivers were not given proportional time penalties compared to the time lost by the mercedes drivers, due to the fault of ferrari drivers (intentional or otherwise).

This was quite different from the last two races. As Ferrari drivers were "penalised" during the race. Yes the quantum of punishment was in question. But in this case neither the incident was even put under investigation during the race nor there was any punishment awarded after the race. Just a "reprimand". The stewards provided silliest of reasons to not punish like confusion, no danger, accepting the mistake.Ferrari drivers also accepted their mistake. They should also not be penalised then.

Sorry for my long rants on this. It really didn't go down well with me. I have been following F1 since 2001. I have never been more disappointed with the stewards.

[mayankk]

Baku had different and stricter pitlane entry rules in 2016. Track specific rule. It's mentioned under the reason as event notes in the 2016 ruling against Kimi buay. It's a greyer interpretation at any other track.

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Yes, humans are going to make mistakes, hence football decided to get VAR and it played a crucial role in world eliminating "Human Mistakes". In this case the stewards are the VAR but they decide to not penalise a clear cut infringement based on lame excuse points from Mercedes.

That's what I am saying. Even with VAR, the decisions still weren't consistent as the eventual decision makers are still humans. Most of the commentators and viewers clearly believed that the Perisic penalty in the final was not a penalty. Many instances of rough behaviour were not called a foul by some while some called it a foul even after using VAR.
I was going through some court verdicts earlier related to an income tax section I was interested in and even there, there were 2 cases, one in Bombay High Court and another in Kolkata where completely opposite decisions have been made by the court siting the same law in similar cases.

Laws are always open to interpretation no matter how complexly you word it to cover all bases and despite there being previous judgements sometimes judges/referees/stewards take different decisions because they interpret it in a different manner.

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by mayankk

That's quite loaded. What was the "snatch"?

In Brazil 2008, last race of the season, Massa crossed the finishing line as the winner with enough points to win the 2008 WDC (Equal points + more number of wins compared to Hamilton). For about 15 seconds Massa was the WDC, but then Timo Glock slowed down suspiciously in the final sectors giving Hamilton the one additional point for the "snatch". Massa won 6 times that year against Hamilton's 5. And this was definitely not the best rain drive from Hamilton, considering Timo Glock was ahead of him. Timo Glock!

Originally Posted by rdst_1

The commentators were saying that a penalty usually only gets applied when such maneuvers result in the driver gaining a place, so don't think they would penalize Hamilton in this case, especially if it wasn't dangerous to any other drivers.

The last couple of years, penalties are applicable for only 18 cars on the grid. Only 18 cars fall under the ambit of "dangerous to other drivers"

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

This isn't about perceived bias, F1 stewarding has actually been inconsistent over the years.

One could take the cynical view that it's intentional, and rules are vague on purpose to allow wriggle room, but maintaining status quo because someone will find a reason to complain either way, ultimately helps nobody.

It actually helps one driver and one team. As for inconsistencies, here is the latest - Hit car 77, you get 5 second time penalty. Hit Car 44 and you get 10, in other words, fines double if you are "special".

A couple of races ago Mercedes said it would have been brutal if Kimi was asked to relinquish track position in favor of Vettel. Yesterday they had no qualms in being brutal to Bottas. What we do is always right, humane, strategically brilliant, eh?

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by sun_king

In Brazil 2008, last race of the season, Massa crossed the finishing line as the winner with enough points to win the 2008 WDC (Equal points + more number of wins compared to Hamilton). For about 15 seconds Massa was the WDC, but then Timo Glock slowed down suspiciously in the final sectors giving Hamilton the one additional point for the "snatch". Massa won 6 times that year against Hamilton's 5. And this was definitely not the best rain drive from Hamilton, considering Timo Glock was ahead of him. Timo Glock!



, eh?

Oh please. Not that area 51 conspiracy again.
Check what tyres Glock was on, compared to the rest of the field.

[Chetan_Rao]

With the dust settled overnight on all the drama, I'm actually pretty impressed with Max.

He's turned quite the page after Monaco, and is slowly gathering solid results while staying out of trouble. Red Bull are helpless on power tracks or point-and-squirt layouts, so it was pretty mature of Max to drive within his car's limits yesterday instead of trying something drastic.

They should be in the game next week at the Hungaroring.

[Hatari]

Highlight of the weekend is the power gains made by the Ferrari PU. Quite impressive given the time frames.

Ferrari strategy is puzzling, they should have waved Vettel past on the fresh Softs.
Shame Seb made a mistake when he wasnt under any pressure from behind.

Hope the mystery behind Vandoorne's car is solved, clearly something major off.
The car apparently has 13000 sensors and they still cant tell whats wrong!

Really looking forward to Hungary.

[SilentEngine]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Highlight of the weekend is the power gains made by the Ferrari PU. Quite impressive given the time frames.

Ferrari strategy is puzzling, they should have waved Vettel past on the fresh Softs.

From what we know only Vettel is using the updated PU from Canada. Kimi is still running old spec components, after he fell out of sync with upgrade cycle because of earlier DNF in the season, which makes Kimi's recent performances all the more impressive. Ferrari must have had a stronger package from the beginning to be able to run consistently on par with Mercedes.

Their race strategy was probably to put Kimi on two stopper, that's what Kimi said in his post race interview. So it would have been beneficial for Kimi's race to be running ahead of Vettel at the time.

[RM Motorsports]

2018 German Grand Prix Highlights. Race got interesting mid way but team orders ruined my enjoyment of the race. Sadly as the season progresses team orders will play big part in race results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp-i8vtgzJE

[nair]

Heartbreaking as a Seb fan. Couldn't watch the race as I was out with family but I did check midway and all was good. Could not believe that he crashed. Can't even bring myself to watch the highlights. But what an amazing result for LH!

Hopefully Seb bounces back. Can anybody who watched the race please let me know why Kimi is not able to overtake the Merc's or hold off LH? It is very strange to me.

[gtonsing]

It started out as a boring race but a spatter of rain turned almost everything upside down. Tyre strategy, pit stop strategy, team orders, etc., everything became even more important.
That Hamilton could drive (a little help from safety car - I guess he will get a podium even without) from 14 to 1 is one hell of a car and driver! Congratulations!
That he was in a potential penalty position and another driver was previously penalized in a similar situation and he got away with almost nothing sounds very unfair.
SFI seems to be no longer mid-fielders. Even with a few opportunities, if they continue to perform like they have boon so far, HAAS is not far away, only a few points. Heck, even Toro Rosso could give them some serious competition!

[SilentEngine]

Don't understand why people are going ga-ga over Hamilton's 14-to-1 win. Of all those positions gained, how many of them did he have to actually fight for? Most of the people were happy to pull by the side at the hairpin as if Lewis was lapping them. There are effectively two different championships running - one for the top three teams and another for the rest.

Just see how Verstappen was able to take a gamble to switch to inters and then back to slicks when it didn't work and still keep a healthy margin to Renault/Haas behind. That shows the performance gap there is. And Verstappen wasn't even driving a race winning car!

At worst Hamilton was going to finish P5 anyway with Ricciardo starting at the back. Safety car and Vettel DNF obviously worked to his advantage.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Baku had different and stricter pitlane entry rules in 2016. Track specific rule. It's mentioned under the reason as event notes in the 2016 ruling against Kimi buay. It's a greyer interpretation at any other track.

So the rule is black white for Kimi because it was part of the event notes where as they just mentioned the rule (Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 4) was violated. But because the same was not said for Germany, you can break the same rule (Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 4) because you are Lewis Hamilton. You / your team are allowed to get away with it because you were CONFUSED. So much so for the greyer interpretation.

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Laws are always open to interpretation no matter how complexly you word it to cover all bases and despite there being previous judgements sometimes judges/referees/stewards take different decisions because they interpret it in a different manner.

This is the rule

Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 4 d)

Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards), the crossing, in any direction, of the line separating the pit entry and the track by a car entering the pit lane is prohibited.

Please tell me the multiple interpretations of the word "Prohibited"

Originally Posted by sun_king

It actually helps one driver and one team. As for inconsistencies, here is the latest - Hit car 77, you get 5 second time penalty. Hit Car 44 and you get 10, in other words, fines double if you are "special".

You nailed it. Car 44 gets a reprimand for the same offense and Car 7 get 5 seconds + two penalty points on the license. Because Car 44 and its team "candidly" admitted to their "mistake" and were "confused". So the next time Car X bangs into Car Y, you just need to admit to your mistake and you will get a reprimand.

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

At worst Hamilton was going to finish P5 anyway with Ricciardo starting at the back. Safety car and Vettel DNF obviously worked to his advantage.

Because he is F1's golden boy and he is the one who can do miracles. If you hear the commentary on Star Sports, they commentate as if the whole race revolves around Hamilton and only Hamilton.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

So the rule is black white for Kimi because it was part of the event notes where as they just mentioned the rule (Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 4) was violated. But because the same was not said for Germany, you can break the same rule (Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 4) because you are Lewis Hamilton. You / your team are allowed to get away with it because you were CONFUSED. So much so for the greyer interpretation.

I'm sorry. What are you arguing for or against .
It was black and white for Baku, but is grey elsewhere.
And I also remember a period, a veryyyyyy long one, when the f in fia did not stand for federation.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

You nailed it. Car 44 gets a reprimand for the same offense and Car 7 get 5 seconds + two penalty points on the license. Because Car 44 and its team "candidly" admitted to their "mistake" and were "confused". So the next time Car X bangs into Car Y, you just need to admit to your mistake and you will get a reprimand.

Because he is F1's golden boy and he is the one who can do miracles. If you hear the commentary on Star Sports, they commentate as if the whole race revolves around Hamilton and only Hamilton.

There was a lot of talk about the penalty for car 7, as being less. For car no 5 it was more proportional but still less as David Coulthard said during the last race, the steward should give a penalty equal to that of time lost by the victim driver.

Even in Moto GP when Marc Marquez actions made Rossi crash, he got a penalty but Rossi lost the points to no fault of his own, it is what it is.

Star sports commentary or any other commentary, if it's a UK commentator(feed mostly from UK channels) there will be bias or increased praise for Hamilton, Button or even if you watched Football world cup showering praises for the England team.(on the flip side the UK tabloids will destroy them if they loose).