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Old 23rd July 2018, 19:49   #61
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by ferrarirules View Post
Because he is F1's golden boy and he is the one who can do miracles. If you hear the commentary on Star Sports, they commentate as if the whole race revolves around Hamilton and only Hamilton.

Wow! The last part of your statement was something that I kept processing in my mind during the race yesterday. Steve Slater just kept wailing "Vettel threw it away, he threw it away. What a blunder..." and so on. Fine, Vettel jammed the brakes and maybe entered the corner a bit quick but after the first second the car had a mind of its own it seemed like. I honestly don't think Vettel "threw it away". He lost his voice when Hamilton crossed the finish line appreciating his so called effort. What a fanboy! LH was good yesterday but I didn't quite see any supreme skill as such. Nothing like Fuji in 2007 where he pretty much drove the race blindfolded in that blizzard.

Steve Slater already takes a few minutes longer to understand what has happened during the race. Cant Star sports get someone else!! Its about time.

Last edited by Fullrevs : 23rd July 2018 at 19:52.
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Old 23rd July 2018, 20:13   #62
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

I think Ferrari screwed it up. They should have pitted at least one of their drivers to counter Lewis. Maybe they didn't have tires, I dont know. But for WDC they should have covered Lewis. had it not worked out, Bottas would have won, but Lewis would have been behind.

And what would it take for Bottas to win? He qualifies behind Lewis, he finishes behind Lewis. When he is ahead, somehow the stars align which put him behind Lewis, now twice in a row - Silverstone & Hockenheim.

And what's the deal with 'crossing the line is prohibited' but the stewards took a lenient view? Why? so when is it really prohibited? when it's a back-marker?
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Old 23rd July 2018, 21:25   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullrevs View Post
Steve Slater already takes a few minutes longer to understand what has happened during the race. Cant Star sports get someone else!! Its about time.

It's not Steve slater. It's been at least 6+ years since Star Sports stopped producing their own F1 shows. The feed we get in in India is from Channel 4 UK, with Ben Edwards and David Coulthard as commentators.
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Old 24th July 2018, 10:32   #64
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
I was so pissed when drivers were just moving out of the way of Hamilton. If I want to watch that, I'll just sit on the side of a road and watch traffic pass by. If these manufacturers can't produce competitive cars then what's the use of having 18 cars on the track.
They only crash amongst themselves because the red and green cars are beyond their reach, it's like a completely different race altogether. And when a race leader like Vettel crashes, they get grouped together with the red and green cars. Rubbish.

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That is why we have VSC but even during VSC and driver who pits during this period gains. But all this add to fun of the sport. The driver and the team who lost in one race may gain in another, depending on his karma.
I don't agree with this either. The best driver should win. Period.

But I do hear you, it will be painstaking to resume a race with the same positions by adding the seconds to the drivers bringing them back to their original positions. Or with cars moving at different speeds, their average speed over the laps would have to be considered and an offset time will have to be added. Either can be done by forcing all drivers into a pitstop if there is a crash (drivers anyway prefer a pitstop when the safety car is on, but this would be rubbish if last few laps are left). The former will be difficult towards the end of the race and latter in the beginning. It's complicated, I agree.
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Old 24th July 2018, 11:25   #65
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
It's not Steve slater. It's been at least 6+ years since Star Sports stopped producing their own F1 shows. The feed we get in in India is from Channel 4 UK, with Ben Edwards and David Coulthard as commentators.
I know that Star Sports doesn't have a F1 preshow or post show anymore but are you sure that is Ben Edwards? He is pretty slow as well.
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Old 24th July 2018, 11:48   #66
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
That is why we have VSC but even during VSC and driver who pits during this period gains.
VSC speeds are much higher, it gets called only if the debris field is much smaller. If they have to get a tow truck across the track, it wouldn't be so quick. Another point is, if the cars are all over the track, there wouldn't be a window to cross the track safely.

More than race excitement, I feel safety is paramount. One wouldn't want another Jules Bianchi to happen.


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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
I think Ferrari screwed it up. They should have pitted at least one of their drivers to counter Lewis.
This was something I thought about too, they should have pitted Raikkonen and switched him to Ultras. But then, there was imminent rain at that time and as a result there was a possibility of switching to Inters/Full Wets.

Another point would be, pitting Raikkonen while would handle Hamilton (Raikkonen isn't the greatest defender) it would have put Vettel under direct attack from Bottas.

I doubt the strategists would have predicted Vettel was going to crash out from the race.
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Old 24th July 2018, 11:53   #67
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
That is why we have VSC but even during VSC and driver who pits during this period gains. But all this add to fun of the sport. The driver and the team who lost in one race may gain in another, depending on his karma.
Unfortunately it goes a little beyond that, Singapore 2008, a well timed crash allowed a car that was never capable to win an F1 Grand Prix to finish first. That was not fun, not sporting and definitely not in the spirit of any competition. The Safety Car may be a tradition in F1, but it is high time FIA put an end to the practice of negating the gains of hard work. A 25-second lead meticulously gained over 30 - 40 laps should give the driver the privilege to pit for fresh rubber and come out without losing track positions. Instead, some random chance or a stupid collision between two or more hotheads can hand over the benefits to a trailing car by virtue of sheer timing. F1 is becoming a gambling show, a gambling based on luck rather than engineering judgement like tire selection.

With the SC/VSC showing up in every race of 2018, why not just cut down the number of laps to 10 or 15 for the remaining races? All the efforts of the first half of the race is being chucked out of the window anyway and the truncated race just should give the same end results.

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
I think Ferrari screwed it up. They should have pitted at least one of their drivers to counter Lewis. <snip>
Who? If I may ask. Yet to see Kimi make a stand or a move against Hamilton or Bottas this year. Vettel had the perfect strategy for a win in Germany last week, so no issues there. Ferrari needs a young gun, someone with the fire to win, not the one who gives up a few positions meekly at the start of the race.
Quote:
And what would it take for Bottas to win? He qualifies behind Lewis, he finishes behind Lewis. When he is ahead, somehow the stars align which put him behind Lewis, now twice in a row - Silverstone & Hockenheim.
<snip>
The non-brutal decision making powers of Mercedes will ensure that Bottas cannot win on his own. For him to win, Hamilton should be a DNF or so messed up that he cannot overtake Bottas no matter what he does. (Assuming Bottas could have won if not interfered with)

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Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
<snip> If these manufacturers can't produce competitive cars then what's the use of having 18 cars on the track.
16 actually, 4 have won at least a race this year.
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Old 24th July 2018, 14:27   #68
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Question to those opposed to a Safety car during races - what do you propose to do when there isn't enough a gap between cars in the track for marshals to safely attend to an incident? VSC solves a purpose but it isn't enough in all situations. Only other option is a red flag which makes it even worse because not only the gap is nullified, you are now prone to mistakes in the restart and possibility of losing more positions from a standing start. Personally I see Safety car as something that's an integral part of F1 and we need to live with it. Safety of drivers/marshals is paramount and takes highest importance than the effect it may have on the race result.

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Originally Posted by Fullrevs View Post
I know that Star Sports doesn't have a F1 preshow or post show anymore but are you sure that is Ben Edwards? He is pretty slow as well.

I am pretty sure it isn't Steve Slater. Feed is directly from Channel 4 (it used to be from Fox/Sky for a season or two if I remember right). I looked up name Ben Edwards from Channel 4 website. During the commentary you will notice Karun Chandhok addressing him as Ben.
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Old 24th July 2018, 14:51   #69
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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Question to those opposed to a Safety car during races - what do you propose to do when there isn't enough a gap between cars in the track for marshals to safely attend to an incident? VSC solves a purpose but it isn't enough in all situations.
As soon as the race is yellow flagged, the cars should be remotely/manually reduced to lower speeds like they do for the pits. This will ensure that the time gap remains the same as it was before the crash. Nobody has a problem with safety car but it should be implemented in such a way that the cars lagging behind shouldn't be allowed to close the gap that the leaders have so painstakingly accumulated over the course of the race. With today's technology it would be very easy to implement it with fairness as they implement the pit lane speed limit at the touch of a button.
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Old 24th July 2018, 16:57   #70
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Question to those opposed to a Safety car during races - what do you propose to do when there isn't enough a gap between cars in the track for marshals to safely attend to an incident?
Thats why some of the boring new Tilke circuits have plenty of alternative/side roads. If there is a serious crash or if the track has been damaged they barricade that area and allow the SC and cars to go by the side/alternative road. If you notice the Abu Dhabi circuit, there are various configurations for the track.

I think it has happened once before during some serious crash. Bernie fought a lot to get the old classic (the good ones IMO) removed and use these massively wide and boring new circuits on the calendar.
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Old 25th July 2018, 09:42   #71
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

https://www.pitpass.com/62485/Wolff-...ari-power-unit

Oh Toto, desperate to know the Ferrari secret. The Maranello boys have done a stonker of a job and none of the ex-Ferrari moles at Mercedes have a clue about it
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Old 25th July 2018, 10:01   #72
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by Fullrevs View Post
Wow! The last part of your statement was something that I kept processing in my mind during the race yesterday. Steve Slater just kept wailing "Vettel threw it away, he threw it away. What a blunder..." and so on. Fine, Vettel jammed the brakes and maybe entered the corner a bit quick but after the first second the car had a mind of its own it seemed like. I honestly don't think Vettel "threw it away". He lost his voice when Hamilton crossed the finish line appreciating his so called effort. What a fanboy! LH was good yesterday but I didn't quite see any supreme skill as such. Nothing like Fuji in 2007 where he pretty much drove the race blindfolded in that blizzard.

Steve Slater already takes a few minutes longer to understand what has happened during the race. Cant Star sports get someone else!! Its about time.
As already mentioned, Steve Slater hasn't been with Star Sports for ages.

Hamilton's drive in Germany was nothing short of exceptional. A lot of things were absolutely phenomenal:

1. Hamilton made his set of soft tyres last for 40+ laps. This is while he was making his way through traffic in dirty air, and on a tankful of fuel. If you've observed the season closely, you'll realize that Mercedes aren't great in following other cars and their tyres tend to get worn much quicker. What this basically means is that Hamilton adapted his racing lines and his braking points to optimally make his tyres last more than anyone else while he was driving through the field.

2. He was lapping close to the leader's pace (Vettel & Bottas) even after the leaders pitted for new softs and Hamilton was on tyres that were 30 laps old. He was within 0.1-0.4 of their lap times which is quite unbelievable.

3. After his pitstop, Hamilton was about 16 seconds behind Bottas and approximately 25 seconds behind race leader Vettel. The rain started coming down sporadically a couple of laps after Hamilton pitted for new Ultrasofts. This is when Hamilton's already great race came alive. His supremacy in mixed conditions was there for the world to see. He was lapping between 2-4 seconds a lap quicker than the leaders ahead of him. He made short work of the 25 seconds lead and within 10-12 laps, he was hunting down the lead 3 cars for the win.

Even if Vettel wouldn't have crashed and the SC wasn't deployed, Hamilton would have picked the two Ferraris and his teammate with ease in those conditions. I have no doubt in my mind that Hamilton's serious pace differential in these conditions mounted the pressure on Vettel which is why he was trying to get as far ahead as possible after he passed Raikkonen, and it eventually led to his mistake.

This was quite easily the drive of the year, and one of the great performances of a racing driver in the last 10-15 years.

Make no mistake about it, what we saw from Hamilton at Germany was special!

Last edited by PuntoMania : 25th July 2018 at 10:03.
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Old 25th July 2018, 12:20   #73
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by PuntoMania View Post
Even if Vettel wouldn't have crashed and the SC wasn't deployed, Hamilton would have picked the two Ferraris and his teammate with ease in those conditions. I have no doubt in my mind that Hamilton's serious pace differential in these conditions mounted the pressure on Vettel which is why he was trying to get as far ahead as possible after he passed Raikkonen, and it eventually led to his mistake.

This was quite easily the drive of the year, and one of the great performances of a racing driver in the last 10-15 years.

Make no mistake about it, what we saw from Hamilton at Germany was special!
I disagree with your claim that Hamilton would have usurped Vettel also. In those very conditions while Hamilton was closing in on Kimi and Bottas (maybe), Vettel was building up a lead which had almost been at 9seconds before he crashed out. If one assumes that Vettel was still on track, Hamilton would have aimed for 2nd and maybe even gone into the pits....the decent way.

Hamilton is great in changing conditions but I would give a few more marks or maybe 'driver of the day' to.....here it comes... Romain Grosjean. Yeah he's been a wavered inconsistent driver so far. In those conditions though, he performed the best.

You want to know what was one of the few best drive of the last 10-15 years? Yes its the driver you mentioned but Hamilton in Fuji 2007 was by far the best drive by him in the wet. Sebastien Vettel in the Toro Rossa at Monza? Button in Hungary 2006?

Coming back to my post, a commentator is supposed to be neutral. If what you say about Ben Edwards being the current commentator for Star Sports is true, he has another country man beside him - David Coulthard. You don't hear any fan boy comments from him. Wailing over the microphone of how "Vettel threw it away" is plain stupid. His unilateral love for his countryman isn't ideal for anyone watching his broadcast. He may as well grow a cornrow and sit in the Mercedes garage.

I can mention many incidents when Hamilton binned it in 50 degree dry track conditions. Remember the famous take out of Nico Rosberg at Barcelona? 2016 Spanish GP.

No I have not made a mistake, Hamiltons drive wasn't something that goes into the 'great drives archive'. He was also helped by team orders and a favourable stewards decision. He's had quite a bit of luck this year. I cannot say his drives have been phenomenal. I would rate 2017 a lot better for LH44.

Last edited by Fullrevs : 25th July 2018 at 12:22.
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Old 25th July 2018, 12:57   #74
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by PuntoMania View Post
As already mentioned, Steve Slater hasn't been with Star Sports for ages.

Hamilton's drive in Germany was nothing short of exceptional. A lot of things were absolutely phenomenal
I agree. Although I am a Ferrari fan and was mightily disappointed by Vettel's crash, Lewis was brilliant. His pace caused Seb to go faster than required and thereby make an error and crash out. Last 2 races, seeing what Lewis has done, it is not pure luck, but surely some talent!
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Old 25th July 2018, 13:03   #75
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Re: Formula 1: The 2018 German Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by Fullrevs View Post
I disagree with your claim that Hamilton would have usurped Vettel also. In those very conditions while Hamilton was closing in on Kimi and Bottas (maybe), Vettel was building up a lead which had almost been at 9seconds before he crashed out. If one assumes that Vettel was still on track, Hamilton would have aimed for 2nd and maybe even gone into the pits....the decent way.
Not really. I think you should go back to the race and re-check. Here's a graph that shows the gap between Vettel and Hamilton and how rapidly it was coming down after Hamilton's pitstop.

Gap between Hamilton and Vettel at the end of lap 43 (after LH's pitstop): 23.7 seconds

Gap between Hamilton and Vettel at the end of lap 51 (the lap in which SV crashed): 12.1 seconds

It would take Hamilton 4, maybe 5 laps to get on Vettel's gearbox and overhaul him if Vettel did not crash.

The lap differential between Hamilton and Kimi & Bottas is even more. And btw, if you check the laptimes after the safety car came in, when everyone else was on fresher ultrasofts than Lewis, you'll see his laptimes were still marginally better.

Nothing surprising in those team orders vs Bottas to be perfectly honest. It was the last 10 laps of the race, and Mercedes didn't want to risk a collision under slippery conditions, and hand the race win back from Ferrari! Especially one that they stole from Ferrari themselves.

Vettel's mistake was quite a rudimentary one, and it adds to the terrible one he made at Baku and the crash he had at France.

He went in too hot into the corner and went off. This was not a case of aquaplaning (as that requires more standing water), but an amateur error from Seb where he severely misjudged the amount of traction he would have on a slippery track. Very uncharacteristic of a 4x WDC and one of the greats of the sport, which leads me to believe that it was the relentless pressure of Hamilton that had some part to play there.


As of now, Hamilton has clearly been outperforming Vettel this year. He's made less mistakes and is able to recover from bad positions in-spite of having had worse reliability, and in my eyes, the second best car to Ferrari.
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