[Fullrevs]

Originally Posted by PuntoMania

Not really. I think you should go back to the race and re-check. Here's a graph that shows the gap between Vettel and Hamilton and how rapidly it was coming down after Hamilton's pitstop.

Gap between Hamilton and Vettel at the end of lap 43 (after LH's pitstop): 23.7 seconds

Gap between Hamilton and Vettel at the end of lap 51 (the lap in which SV crashed): 12.1 seconds

It would take Hamilton 4, maybe 5 laps to get on Vettel's gearbox and overhaul him if Vettel did not crash.

The lap differential between Hamilton and Kimi & Bottas is even more. And btw, if you check the laptimes after the safety car came in, when everyone else was on fresher ultrasofts than Lewis, you'll see his laptimes were still marginally better.

Nothing surprising in those team orders vs Bottas to be perfectly honest. It was the last 10 laps of the race, and Mercedes didn't want to risk a collision under slippery conditions, and hand the race win back from Ferrari! Especially one that they stole from Ferrari themselves.

Vettel's mistake was quite a rudimentary one, and it adds to the terrible one he made at Baku and the crash he had at France.

He went in too hot into the corner and went off. This was not a case of aquaplaning (as that requires more standing water), but an amateur error from Seb where he severely misjudged the amount of traction he would have on a slippery track. Very uncharacteristic of a 4x WDC and one of the greats of the sport, which leads me to believe that it was the relentless pressure of Hamilton that had some part to play there.


As of now, Hamilton has clearly been outperforming Vettel this year. He's made less mistakes and is able to recover from bad positions in-spite of having had worse reliability, and in my eyes, the second best car to Ferrari.

A matter of could have and should have. One cannot claim that LH would have overtaken SV by looking at lap times or time deltas. Our argument gets nullified by the fact that Vettel went off and crashed but Vettel is as good as Hamilton in changing conditions, he increased his lead consistently until he went off. Getting to ones gearbox is one thing but passing the car ahead is another. This is Sebastien Vettel after all, he won't be just watching a silver car go past.

The sachcurve was wet and there was quite a bit of sliding when he went off. I would hardly call it amateurish. Pretty sure he used the same braking point in the same conditions and few laps before he crashed. Thats how things are in those conditions. I think a slightly damp circuit is harder to control than a full wet circuit. If the track had standing water, nobody would be daring to lap the circuit on dry tyres. So the comparison you made is non-existent. Its an error that can happen to anyone! LH was lucky he didn't leave his floor behind on the track in that jump back to the circuit. Luck favoured one and not the other. Which seems to be how it is this whole year. Its also easy to say that Vettel would have been leading the championship by lightyears had those external factors not hindered his races.

Also, difference in performance between worn tyres (hamiltons) and fresh tyres during the track conditions that existed at the time are almost none. Drivers tend to put worn and scrubbed dry tyres during those conditions. This is a common practise for certain drivers in dry/wet conditions. Alonso being one who likes to use worn or scrubbed tyres in semi wet conditions.

I am not surprised by team orders either but Hamilton was given a gift by both team and the officials. Mercedez cannot justify not giving a freebie to their $40million a year star. Bottas could have had LH easily on the restart. LH has to thank his stars it wasn't Ricciardo or Alonso in the sister car.

Hamilton has been put to the test this season. Its evident the way he is cracking by looking at his amateur statements in press conferences and his body language. Not to forget that Ferrari are coming from quite far back by looking at the status quo last year. A commendable feat by Ferrari. I would still rate Vettels performance higher than Hamiltons. He's had to come from a long way behind. Hamilton is unable to come to grips with a competitor from another team.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

Vettel avoided it by crashing!

The way Mercedes and Ferrari handled their drivers situation was interesting. Mercedes - quite clear in telling Bottas not to attack Lewis even though P2 for Lewis would have been still a great result after Vettel's DNF. Ferrari on the other hand, were non-committal and it took a lot of deliberation to tell Kimi in a round about way to let Vettel through.

Yeah, I seem to have jinxed Vettel. The last race I did it to poor Leclerc.

All the good work that Vettel did over the weekend was undone and he has none to blame but himself. Vettel's crash will definitely be seen as a weakness or a chink in his armor especially as Mark Webber made this point prior to the start of the race. However I feel the first signs of losing his cool was when he started getting antsy behind Raikkonen. Yes all the statistics, tyre temp, strategy etc pointed to the right decision being Raikkonen letting him through now that team orders are deployed far and wide. However he could have given it a couple of laps. For me he lost his frame of mind at this point. Personally I feel they should have at least left their drivers to race for a few laps and then decide. Raikkonen should have been given a chance to win. Once let through he was like a bat out of hell, seeming out to open up the widest gap possible that there were no questions about the decision. Perhaps he should have dialed it back and maintained a consistent gap of 3-4 seconds. Easy for me to talk in the comfort of my chair though. However the psycological advantage is hugely in favor of Mercedes have has the double whammy of winning at Vettel's home grand prix and that too from 14th place. Ferrari notwithstanding their power advantage have their task cut out to win this championship. As one article pointed out, they have a worrying tendency to beat themselves.

Hamilton did good to hang in there and drive a great race though he too had to rely on team orders in the end. But just a small blemish on what had been a superb drive. However I wouldn't read much into talent being the main reason for the current front runners running through the mid pack like a hot knife through butter. The power differential is just so much so that these teams do not see much point in compromising their strategy by giving the Mercs and ferrari's a hard time. In Silverstone both Vettel and Hamilton just scythed through the field.

The less said about stewarding the better. Similar to yester year allegations that the "f" in FIA stood for Ferrari, it seems to be "m" now. After penalising two Ferrari drivers 5 and 10 seconds, the championship leader was left off with a reprimand and the statement that he was "honest." They might as well given him a gold medal. Why wasn't a 5 second penalty given at least?

String finish by Force India. Hope this team maintains the same verve and giant killer reputation under the rumored new owner as well.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[asr245]

I agree that most likely, Ham would have gotten past Seb, but to call it his greatest drive ever - hardly. You say he was 0.1 - 0.4 secs within leaders lap time on 30+ old tires. I say that's because leaders knew they have to make their tires last & were controlling the pace. I would also say that his lower qualifying position actually proved to be a blessing in disguise. Because of that he could start on softs & pit or wait out much later compared to the leaders. Being on ultrasofts in mixed conditions is what helped him pull out 2-3secs/lap on leaders.

Of course, you need talent to pull it out so it was great. But greatest ever - nope.

& Bottas has improved most from 2017 (actually Kimi has but that hardly means anything). Hamilton was better in 2017 while Vettel seems to continue to make crucial mistakes (Azerbaijan, France & now this)

PS: also do not understand the lenient view, it crossing that pit line is prohibited. Kimi was penalized for the same in Azerbaijan 2016. Looks like they saved their behinds by trying not to create a controversy or were Lewis fanboys

[Turbo_Charger]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

I was so pissed when drivers were just moving out of the way of Hamilton. If I want to watch that, I'll just sit on the side of a road and watch traffic pass by. If these manufacturers can't produce competitive cars then what's the use of having 18 cars on the track.

Sometimes these drivers don't have any option but to just move out of Hamilton's way because of Team Orders which work even when these drivers are not driving for Mercedes. Toto should join politics, he's wasting his time in the wrong profession.

Toto Wolff has admitted he asked for Esteban Ocon to let Lewis Hamilton past in Monaco.

Wolff is the team boss at Mercedes, and Ocon is a Mercedes junior driver.

The Frenchman currently drives for Mercedes-powered Force India, and after Monaco he seemed to hint that ‘team orders’ were in play when Hamilton sped past during the race.

“I’m a Mercedes driver,” Ocon said. “You should ask the boss.”

Wolff was asked by a reporter for La Derniere Heure if he gave the order for Ocon to let Hamilton through, and responded: “Yes.”

Asked why, the Austrian added: “It is how it is.”

[the_joker]

For people arguing about Hamilton's pit lane reprimand and penalty, here is a list of incidents and actions taken. The data speaks for itself.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by the_joker

For people arguing about Hamilton's pit lane reprimand and penalty, here is a list of incidents and actions taken. The data speaks for itself.

Well, Kimi in 2016 is more convenient, don't you know?


It's just the prerogative of the stewards, though, seriously.

[anachronix]

Hey, I love that name "steward's pet"

This needs an explanation as well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsAxIeZLafw

Originally Posted by the_joker

For people arguing about Hamilton's pit lane reprimand and penalty, here is a list of incidents and actions taken. The data speaks for itself.

That's Kimi's encounter with that white line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I958MNEo2wA

Look at the steward's pet having fun around the pit entry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbZRShmR638

Originally Posted by mayankk

Well, Kimi in 2016 is more convenient, don't you know?


It's just the prerogative of the stewards, though, seriously.

[Hatari]

Kimi's Baku pit entry "slip streaming" penalty was quite dangerous and completely justified.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by anachronix

https://www.pitpass.com/62485/Wolff-...ari-power-unit

Oh Toto, desperate to know the Ferrari secret. The Maranello boys have done a stonker of a job and none of the ex-Ferrari moles at Mercedes have a clue about it

Trying to stoke another controversy to distract the attention from the fact that they are being beaten on outright power which has not happened since start of tubro era. Sore loser.

Originally Posted by the_joker

For people arguing about Hamilton's pit lane reprimand and penalty, here is a list of incidents and actions taken. The data speaks for itself.

Did you read through each incident and the reason why it was just a reprimand? Did all of them happen during the race or they were in some other session? Did all of them apologized and accepted their mistake to just get a reprimand?

Originally Posted by Hatari

Kimi's Baku pit entry "slip streaming" penalty was quite dangerous and completely justified.

I agree it was justified because it was against the rules. The stewards didn't use the word dangerous in the official statement. They just said that he violated the pit entry rule that is it. But see the steward's official statement for "Steward's pet", he and team accepted mistake and apologized. If apology is all that is needed to get out of an offense then good. Should be remembered for future cases as well.


And for the debate, about who is a better driver between Hamilton and Vettel. Acc to me, they both are at par. But as a human, Vettel is way better than Hamilton, not as arrogant and not a sore loser. This was quite evident in the British GP.

[anachronix]

On other news, Ferrari's new PU upgrade is coming for the Haas & Sauber this weekend. Rumor is , the upgrade is quite significant; if everything goes well with this PU, expect the engine to be used by both Ferraris for the Belgian GP!

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by anachronix

On other news, Ferrari's new PU upgrade is coming for the Haas & Sauber this weekend. Rumor is , the upgrade is quite significant; if everything goes well with this PU, expect the engine to be used by both Ferraris for the Belgian GP!

That is a great news for both Haas and Sauber. Haas are trying to top the midfield battle. They are tied with Force India currently. Previous upgrade helped Sauber to fight in the mid field and even reach Q3. So Leclerc will be drooling over the news of the next upgrade.

[myavu]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Vettel is way better than Hamilton, not as arrogant and not a sore loser. This was quite evident in the British GP.

That's why Vettel barged into Hamilton at 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix or Vettel's radio outburst against Charlie Whiting at 2016 Mexico There was no arrogance at all.

When you say one person is way better than other please support it with some evidence too. For me both are hard racers with different personalities.

[deetjohn]

Vettel blew it! Didn't he?

Quite possibly the 2018 title too and not just the German GP.

This is a bogey track for him! Almost in his backyard. One corner is apparently just a few kilometers from his home. Got to hurt like crazy!


But really impressed by SF71H. The car is really up there!

But if the team keeps pulling Kimi down for Vettel, that glorious machine will not get its due with a constructors title!

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by myavu

That's why Vettel barged into Hamilton at 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix or Vettel's radio outburst against Charlie Whiting at 2016 Mexico There was no arrogance at all.

When you say one person is way better than other please support it with some evidence too. For me both are hard racers with different personalities.

Please understand the difference between "outburst" and "arrogance". The above two incidents were outbursts not arrogance.

And you wanted evidences when Lewis showed his arrogance. Here are a few out of many -

1. Nico - Lewis battles of 2015 and 2016. Lewis barged into Nico in the US GP 2015 and then threw a cap to him when he won the championship. Went to say in the press conference "It's the worst thing being my team mate"
Link - For skysports analysis on it, http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...lewis-hamilton

2. Lewis - Malaysian GP 2016 - "Someone doesn't want me to win".

Link - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...to-win-832372/

3. Lewis is the only driver not to attend "F1 live" in Britain 2017 -

Link - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...b-british-fans

4. Lewis - Missed post race interview at British GP 2018 and went on to make baseless claims. Blamed it on a intense race but in very next race he won from the same situation and he was ok for a post race interview.


Let me know if you need more evidences.



And still Vettel is more arrogant. Lewis is the kind of driver who gets on other drivers nerves. It happened with Nico and then with Vettel.

[myavu]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Please understand the difference between "outburst" and "arrogance". The above two incidents were outbursts not arrogance.

Dear "ferrarirules,

Hope you had read my post correctly. Nowhere I had mentioned that Lewis is way better than Vettel. Or nowhere I had mentioned Lewis is not arrogant.

So as per you outbursts are ok and natural but arrogance are bad and inhuman.

Man, those people are fierce racers. You can follow your star and I can mine. But when you start justifying your star like this it's

NB: If one person is arrogant it's just a part of his personality. You love or hate that person. But outbursts are something which at times can harm other person physically or mentally which I will never glorify.

Cheers!