[wheeledwanderer]

Wearing T shirts by all F1 drivers shows their solidarity with this movement. Asking someone to kneel if they are not willing to is definitely intruding into their freedom. The whole subject of bringing this into F1 was a bad thing. What do they want to prove? Lewis Hamilton's comment was undue called for and saying everyone should kneel is definitely Proselytism.

[noopster]

The article never mentions what exactly the drivers were taking a knee to. Was it the Austrian national anthem?

It may sound like a small point but is significant. When Colin Kaepernick first took the knee, he did so during the American national anthem in protest of police brutality and racial inequality in the United States.

When you expect people to "take the knee" in general, it cheapens the act from something that is deeply meaningful to mere tokenism, in my opinion.

Racism is a serious problem and it affects the entire world, not just Americans. But the solution to racism cannot be tokenism.

[AZT]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

A storm in a teacup if ever there was one!

It is a click bait - that article and its title. And got no place on this forum if you ask me.

Many things wrong here! First of all, it is up to each individual whether to take the knee or not. And there is no shame or division due to that.

And secondly, Lewis never said that. In fact he said, anti-racism is a 'much bigger issue' than whether individuals participate in a single gesture.



Hamilton didn't request F1 drivers take a knee on Austrian GP grid

Agree on both counts. Clickbait article and should find no place on this forum. Hamilton never asked them to take a knee. Request mods to edit the title or just remove this.

[ZenMaster]

I think Magnussen put it best in his comment about why he took the knee.

Whether one wants to or not is his/her choice. One might not believe in showing but doing their part.

I also believe that F1 using its reach and popularity to send the message about ending racism is actually a great and responsible gesture.

But trying to bring diversity for diversity's sake is never good for the sport where people go above and beyond their physical and mental limits to achieve their dream of making it to F1 and becoming a world champion. It would be greatly unfair to them (except maybe some of the Pay drivers who has no business being there).

F1, however we put it, is predominantly a European sport based in Europe and with it (unfortunately) naturally comes the large proportion of white Europeans. I'm sure that there are people of many nationalities and races working behind the scenes (engineers, support staff, etc).

[sbkumar]

I have an opinion which probably contradicts with other posts here. I see people taking a knee in NASCAR and in EPL apart from NFL. Originally it was about the American flag and anthem but recently it has turned into a show of support for the BLM and even more generally against racism. The significant change in perception that has come is that either you support racism or you speak up against it, even if it looks like tokenism. There were comments about ability in this thread but that would be a very shallow reading of the systemic obstacles people of color (or any other group is subjected to discrimination over generations) face in reaching the heights usually reserved for the people of privilege. I don't that can be explained in a post here. It's up to the individuals but it's probably a good time for those with influence to recognize it and speak against it.

[sagaranjos]

It is fascinating that a vast majority (or maybe an absolute majority) here have said that taking a knee is symbolism and is upto the person's choice.

By that same logic, would you support someone who decides not to stand up for the national anthem in a movie theatre? Even that is symbolism, right?

Food for thought!

[Slick]

It all started with the incident in American Football.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/117714...g-history-blm/

I checked to see if taking the knee or kneeling on one knee has some historical significance, but it doesn't seem to have so.

I see the drivers have tried their way of communicating that they are against racism. It's their way of expressing protest towards racism, should be acceptable.

I have seen online, a lot of times, this is the problem with social justice, either you do what we say or you are against us. There seems to be no middle ground.

All this will achieve is overzealous fans attacking those drivers on social media.



Edit -

Originally Posted by sagaranjos

......

By that same logic, would you support someone who decides not to stand up for the national anthem in a movie theatre? Even that is symbolism, right?

Food for thought!

Apples and Oranges really ... Taking a knee is for a cause, to end racism. The world might see a hundred such causes, Social justice warriors would expect me to honour all causes. I can't do that. I am sympathetic towards those causes but can't really be involved in everything. Those drivers have made statements in their own way. That should be enough.



- Slick

[LiCoO2]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Ferrari's Charles Leclerc, Red Bull's Max Verstappen, McLaren's Carlos Sainz, Alfa Romeo team-mates Kimi Raikkonen and Antonio Giovinazzi, and Russian Daniil Kvyat were among six drivers who opted not to take the knee.

Al least 5 of them are from countries with no major issues with racism and police brutality like the US. So I don't really see much point in them taking a knee. And we can't really blame the Russian for not criticizing Russia.

Tbh, all this proves the control that US media and culture have over the world especially over Europe. They are being criticized for not taking a side in a US domestic issue. I guess since F1 is now owned by an American company, we are going to see things like this more often.

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by sbkumar

I have an opinion which probably contradicts with other posts here. I see people taking a knee in NASCAR and in EPL apart from NFL. Originally it was about the American flag and anthem but recently it has turned into a show of support for the BLM and even more generally against racism. The significant change in perception that has come is that either you support racism or you speak up against it, even if it looks like tokenism. There were comments about ability in this thread but that would be a very shallow reading of the systemic obstacles people of color (or any other group is subjected to discrimination over generations) face in reaching the heights usually reserved for the people of privilege. I don't that can be explained in a post here. It's up to the individuals but it's probably a good time for those with influence to recognize it and speak against it.

Totally agreed.

Sometimes there is value in taking a unanimous stand. It signals that this does not even need to be debated. The act of the six drivers prevented that from happening and it is worth criticizing. It is act that is easy to follow through, when the vast majority of their own team/crew and other drivers are doing it.

Their move was intentional decision made for the detractors of the BLM movement. In the circumstances, it is the extend to which you can disagree without being explicitly racist and having career consequences. Whether it came from personal belief or a due to pressure from their support base (fans, sponsors), is hard to determine. But it shouldn’t be seen as an innocent “I did not want to do it”.

More reading for those who are interested: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...846.html%3famp

[nuew]

As much as I support the BML movement, I think it's getting stretched too far stirring up unnecessary controversies. Formula 1 has done a lot of changes within itself to support the cause and has pledged to promote racial diversity in the sports. The drivers and teams have shown their support complying to the FIAs commitments as well. Now belittling all those with this one incident is just ridiculous.

The drivers and teams comes from different countries and different cultures and their experiences,values and reactions would be just as different. There is no international protocol that sets kneeling as the ultimate symbol of the BLM cause. Each individual has the right to voice their opinions in their own way as long as it is not outright offensive. Now if anybody stands openly against BLM, that is something to criticize. But if anybody thinks the way to support the cause is not by following a gesture in trend, that is not the same. It will be just as ridiculous if all teams chose to paint themselves black because Mercedes did it.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by sagaranjos

By that same logic, would you support someone who decides not to stand up for the national anthem in a movie theatre? Even that is symbolism, right?

Such a stance is not as unusual as you think. Forget about what you or I think, there are many symbolic gestures like burning a national flag which are illegal is some countries (e.g. India) but protected by law in others (e.g. USA).

[Starfire]

I for one have always been against the slogan "Black lives matter". Why can't we replace that with "All lives matter". That being said, bringing these things into something like F1 is stupid. This is racing, lets stick to racing. The last thing we want is the media to stir up another controversy which is clearly what happened here.

Everyone has the right to free will, just cause you don't kneel doesn't mean it's disrespect. Infact, the very reason the BLM movement had its inception was cause Blacks were thought not to be allowed to exercise their free will like whites and are rather expected to follow on the tunes of others or else will be killed. Expecting someone to forcefully kneel is going against the whole core principle of the movement.

[samaspire]

Totally unnecessary controversy. I think this twitter post, initially believed to be by tennis star Serena Williams but later disproved, sums it up properly.

[Amsdoc]

Originally Posted by burnt.

Sometimes there is value in taking a unanimous stand. It signals that this does not even need to be debated. The act of the six drivers prevented that from happening and it is worth criticizing. It is act that is easy to follow through, when the vast majority of their own team/crew and other drivers are doing it.Their move was intentional decision made for the detractors of the BLM movement. In the circumstances, it is the extend to which you can disagree without being explicitly racist and having career consequences. Whether it came from personal belief or a due to pressure from their support base (fans, sponsors), is hard to determine. But it shouldn’t be seen as an innocent “I did not want to do it”.More reading for those who are interested: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...846.html%3famp

I totally disagree. We are moving towards a society where whatever is in vogue has to be practiced by all. If you have a contrarian view or even if you do have the same view but don't express it as per prescribed norms, you are to be condemned??
For those who are interested, check out "woke culture" and "cancel culture" debates.
I despair that we are moving towards a very Orwellian state of the world.

[SilentEngine]

Originally Posted by Starfire

I for one have always been against the slogan "Black lives matter". Why can't we replace that with "All lives matter".

That's a topic for discussion in itself (and probably beyond the scope of this forum). Simply put, both give out totally different meanings. The latter phrase is used by those living in denial of existence of racism itself. Better to stay quiet than saying that.