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Old 5th August 2020, 11:31   #61
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

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So basically you support racism if done by a certain race, but not by others?
Please let me know where I said this. My family was among those evicted. My information is first-hand.

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Systemised discrimination?
You might want to read up on the protestant/catholic strife in UK, especially Mary I, which went on for centuries, where people were killed because of their beliefs.
500 years ago. I live in the UK today. And have Prod+RC family. Again, first-hand.

Last edited by v1p3r : 5th August 2020 at 11:39. Reason: not worth the argument. :)
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Old 5th August 2020, 11:37   #62
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

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So next time there is say a royal wedding (watched by millions on TV) it is OK to have people turn up during the ceremony, wearing anti racism T-shirt and take the knee in church? You don't believe in sanctity of the moment in the presence of God?
.
The God I believe in, would have approved of highlighting the need of stamping out racism. He/she would approve of people taking that seriously at any opportunity in a dignified way.

Would have been a hugely important signal, huge exposure, if something theatrical as a Royal wedding would address some real issues!

But then again, as far as I am concerned Royalty needs to be stamped out too. Why is somebody different because of his/her bloodline? A very outdated concept as far as Iím concerned.
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Old 5th August 2020, 12:55   #63
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

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You will watch 2 hours of complete useless, but entertaining F1, but are offended by individuals kneeling for an excellent and relevant worthy cause for a few seconds?
This is the same argument I proffered when I saw people who would not stand for the national anthem in movie theatres (Indians for some reason are either not proud of their country or afraid to show their pride).

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Racism is never a choice for those who suffer from it. It is a harsh reality that affect every part and every second of your life.


I am not against kneeling or acknowledging that racism exists through any other peaceful means but my apprehension is that, kneeling might become some sort of token. "I knelt, therefore I am not racist".

We (and I include myself) privileged few can never truly understand what the daily hurdles underprivileged have to live with as part of their daily lives. Even if we have friends who are "from the other side of the tracks" the best we can do is empathise. But to truly understand their daily trials, is like asking a man to understand the pain (and joy) of childbirth. He can't, because he will never suffer (enjoy) it. The best he can do is sympathise.

Last edited by navin : 5th August 2020 at 12:58.
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Old 5th August 2020, 13:10   #64
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

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I am not against kneeling or acknowledging that racism exists through any other peaceful means but my apprehension is that, kneeling might become some sort of token. "I knelt, therefore I am not racist"
.
True, it is an easy way to appear to be doing the “correct” thing.

Which means time for more action and awareness I would say!

Maybe Lewis should not just kneel, but be allowed to talk to these tens of millions F1 watchers would it really feels to be discriminated. Share a few real life experiences before each race!

Here’s a novel thought: Bring the likes such as Lewis into churches to talk about racism, rather than a white priest theoretical approach to all men are equal!

I live here in the bible belt and I can assure you that Catholic, Protestant and Reformed churches here are exclusive white. The priests and the congregations. Time to make some changes!

Jeroen

Last edited by navin : 5th August 2020 at 13:39. Reason: typos
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Old 5th August 2020, 16:26   #65
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

As much as people can think that this is a good thing, this is yet another politically backed movement like feminism and SJWism (earth/climate movement).

Racism can never end, just ask us Indians.. sure we pretend to have unity in diversity, but lets admit it, deep down there are biases, stereotyping and mockery happening, even if it doesn't happen to you (and I applaud you for that if that's true), it's happening to the person next to you, we are just good actors, that's all.

The reason for BLM is quite pathetic to say the least.. all we know is that :

1) George Floyd was the victim, unfortunately.

2) He allegedly passed out a counterfeit 20$ bill, still no certainty.

3) The cashier called the cops.

4) The cop came, the video shows them having quite a chat for sometime, Floyd doesn't seem to be co-operating fully, though he never showed disrespect.

5) The guilty cop did the one thing that has caused so much unrest, turmoil and hatred in America, no 2 ways about it, the cop is guilty.

YES, I watch 1st Amendment Audit videos, cop videos etc, there is no doubt that cops are racist in America, to what degree and what percentage of them is another question altogether, but I can't believe that this thing turned out to be a BLM protest instead of looking at what really happened with George Floyd and trying to get him justice and get his name cleared and the guilty punished. ANTIFA (the same org that backs Greta Thunberg) also has their hands in these protests, need I say more?

Displays of respect to all people and races are just that - displays, acting more like. Taking the knee won't erase history, and the present is better than the past ever was, and the only way the future can be made the best is in tuning oneself at an individual level. Yes I do agree that races, genders and stereotypes no longer define what an individual is in this global epoch.. time to wipe every slate clean and respect everyone, the homeless, the lawyers, the home-makers, the athletes, the businessmen, the doctors etc, irrespective of race, gender or orientation.. because THAT IS EXACTLY what politicians use to further their causes.

Last edited by dark.knight : 5th August 2020 at 16:28.
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Old 5th August 2020, 16:36   #66
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

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As much as people can think that this is a good thing, this is yet another politically backed movement like feminism and SJWism (earth/climate movement).
I doubt very much there can be many if any topics that are really relevant and important and affect many people; that are not politically backed and or opposed.

I donít think feminism or the earth/climate debate is universally a political backed movement at all. Plenty of political oppositions on all these topics.

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Old 5th August 2020, 18:57   #67
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

Man our egos will not stop at anything, I was really surprised this thread came up in Team-BHP and I am even more surprised that the conversations are still going. We gotta take a chill pill and let the organizers decide what they want to put in the show, they have decided they are going to support the only black driver in the grid so let be it.

It's every individuals own right to whether kneel or not, at least they are sporting the "END RACISM" T-shirts to show solidarity. Being a Lewis fan right from 07, I really hate people blowing up and creating controversy on whatever he does (this BLM thing is one of them), you gotta leave the man alone and try to understand his views and points from being in his place.
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Old 5th August 2020, 19:26   #68
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

In the end, did Chase / FOG do anything concrete except donate some money? I can't seem to recall.

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This is the same argument I proffered when I saw people who would not stand for the national anthem in movie theatres (Indians for some reason are either not proud of their country or afraid to show their pride).
Were you surprised (or offended) that people would not stand for the national anthem, or that others were offended by it?

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The reason for BLM is quite pathetic to say the least..
BLM has existed for over 7 years. Floyd was murdered about 70 days ago. There is no relation leading to causation, merely conflation.

What do you have against Greta? again

Last edited by v1p3r : 5th August 2020 at 19:46.
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Old 5th August 2020, 20:57   #69
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

Racism is an offence against humanity. I lived in USA and did experience covert/overt racism, so I decided to come back to India where I don't have to experience it all the time. What about casteism you say? Well, it is bad too, but it is nowhere as bad as racism. It may be bit worse in rural areas, but hardly noticeable in the cities. Government has taken lots of steps to undo and compensate centuries of injustice via reservations in education and jobs.

Now to the point whether anti-racism protest should be held in sports arenas. Is sports more important than human rights?

Why do we still remember Berlin Olympics of 1936?
a) Is it because Germany won the most medals?
b) Is it because it was the first televised Olympics?
c) Is it because the Olympic torch was used for the first time?
d) Is it because Jesse Owens destroyed Hitler's plan of demonstrating racial superiority of Aryan race through Olympics?

Similarly, 1968 Olympics is remembered for the black gloves protest. That photo reminds everyone that how bad it was for blacks in the era.

When Jackie Robinson was made to play in Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947, as the only black player, it was protested by many (like here) as bringing race politics into the pure sports of baseball. If they had not done that, progress would have been much delayed.

Sports is a great place to showcase the in-justice and break the old mold of keeping the sport pure. Humanity is above sports.
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Old 6th August 2020, 09:40   #70
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

Never seen such feeble arguments! It seems as if those arguing against 'Protesting against Racism' at sporting events -

1) Have absolutely no clue what Racism is and

2) Are just arguing for the sake of it! Bringing various theories against racism or its protests bring a nice little quote into perspective --
“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
― Ziad K. Abdelnour


Why shouldn't there be protests against racism in F1? Are we forgetting a fairly (2008 and 2012) recent incidents? --
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...formula-291943

Can kneeling, which predates the George Floyd protests, be violent or related to violence in any way? If anything, kneeling is the most peaceful form of protest you can probably think of. Unity in F1 is important!

Last edited by Samir Taheer : 6th August 2020 at 09:52.
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Old 19th July 2021, 19:06   #71
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

Yesterday was a great reminder that racism is alive and well, especially in F1 and amongst its fans.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sp...ts-2021-07-19/
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Old 19th July 2021, 19:52   #72
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

We seem to be stuck in a racist behavior > condemning statements > no real action > rinse & repeat cycle.
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Old 20th July 2021, 20:35   #73
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Default Re: 6 Formula One drivers refuse to take the knee

There can be no change without one or both of the following:
1. Acknowledgement that racism (and other -isms) exists and is all-pervasive. This acknowledgement must come from the foot-soldiers of the sport and of society, the aam-aadmi if you will, and the understanding that we must all do whatever it takes to stamp it out, however uncomfortable those steps might be.
2. Far-reaching legislation that makes anti-racism steps compulsory, along with stiff and punitive punishments for anyone or any institution that practices or indulges in any form of racism.

Point 2 is easier to implement. India has often led the way - affirmative action for discriminated castes and tribes way before the US had federal affirmative action. We also have an excellent Act of Parliament that has become a powerful tool for the marginalised.

Point 1 is far harder. This forum is an example that many people do not even believe racism still exists. Until the fact permeates our social conscience, like Germany and Kollektivschuld, we will not get far.
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