Honda to exit F1 (again)!

RM Motorsports · 2nd October 2020, 13:41

Honda Motor Co., Ltd. today announced that it has decided to conclude its participation in the FIA*1 Formula One (F1) World Championship as a power unit supplier at the end of the 2021 season.

https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2...01002aeng.html

Major blow to Redbull & Alpha Tauri. Will be interesting to see which engine they choose for future.

philipmathen · 2nd October 2020, 13:48

Wow, that was quick with the new thread! Just posted about this. What a nightmare for RBR!

rahulcmoulee · 2nd October 2020, 14:30

This is a kick in the guts for Red Bull and Alpha Tauri. Honda has made excellent strides forward after leaving McLaren. From being the worst PU to being on par with Renault and better than Ferrari this year was no small feat. It is always a shame to see a manufacturer leave the sport. The aggressive growl and rumble of the Honda engine will be missed.

Red Bull will most likely be going back to Renault as it is highly unlikely that Mercedes or Ferrari will supply engines to their main rival. Will be fun to see Red Bull go back to Renault after their rather unpleasant divorce in 2018.

Red Liner · 2nd October 2020, 14:45

I don't think Redbull will go to Renault. I think they will bring in a new engine supplier and i also think Max will leave them by end 2021 to Mercedes to replace Hamilton and will pair alongside Russell.

Shreyans_Jain · 2nd October 2020, 15:10

F1 power units have been limited to just 3 manufacturers, with Honda making a bits and pieces attempt. It is sad that they have decided to leave just when they have started to get good pace and reliability.

Reminds me of their bonkers decision to pack up their factory racing team just when they had finally managed to build a properly competitive race winning car. Ross Brawn bought the team for peanuts and went on to with both drivers and constructors titles.

F1 has a serious problem at hand that it can’t attract and sustain the interest of new players. Back in the V10 glory days, we had Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Honda and Ford either running full factory teams of providing engines. Even Cosworth powered backmarkers had their share of moments.

libranof1987 · 2nd October 2020, 15:57

Adding some perspective to this decision.

Quote:

"We have noticed that it's very tough for all the car manufacturers at the moment, because of the environment change for electrification. So, we are summing up the development cost and having discussions internally."

Asked if cost-cutting was the biggest factor in the decision to continue, Yamamoto added: "It is true that the cost is the biggest issue.

"Winning is the first priority. Once we decide to participate, we just try to win."

In a statement, Honda said that it had decided to pull the plug on its F1 activities because of the resources needed amid its shift to electrification in road cars.

Honda said: "Honda needs to funnel its corporate resources in research and development into the areas of future power unit and energy technologies, including fuel cell vehicle (FCV) and battery EV (BEV) technologies, which will be the core of carbon-free technologies."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...he-2021-season

shortbread · 2nd October 2020, 16:06

I think Mercedes is likely to quit as well, my hunch feeling. There is nothing more they can achieve in F1, but there is millions that can be saved. Plus Formula E will be a new area of focus.

Renault has re-entered F1 with half a heart. If Mercedes does quit, they might stay on longer as competing with Ferrari is a fairly low hanging fruit. But if Mercedes continues in the sport, hence continue their domination then Renault will say bye as well.

F1 needs to bring in its own customer engine, using services of companies like Cosworth, TRW etc. So teams with tight budgets can buy engines off the shelves.

RM Motorsports · 2nd October 2020, 16:53

Redbull is very good at making chassis. The only deficit they have is power unit. Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault, all now have works team and even if they supply engine to Redbull, they wont like being beaten by a customer team.

I don't see new engine manufacturers coming into F1 soon. Honda already have a base in Milton Keynes close to Redbull factory. Redbull has lots of MONEY as one can see from their annual budget.

So best option for Redbull would be to take over Honda Engine Operations. They can themselves build and develop engines for future years. With the amount of MONEY Redbull have, they can easily hire couple of engine experts from rival teams. It's not easy as it sounds, as this will be the most expensive investment they can make.

Today's Honda announcement will also have major shake-up in driver market. Once upon a time every driver wished to drive for Redbull after Mercedes. This all will now change from a driver's perspective.

pedrolourenco · 2nd October 2020, 16:58

Why am I not surprised. How many time in the past has Honda quit F1 only to return after a few years break.

Hatari · 2nd October 2020, 18:27

The bow breaks. Shame Honda are leaving the sport.

The older V8s were not 'relevant' enough and the new PUs are too expensive. Automatically ruling out a direct entry of the Cosworths in the world.

Quite the conundrum.

Red Bull would not want to go back to Renault with a begging bowl! Im sure serious thought is being given to taking over Honda's operations... with a partnership with Cosworth/Aston Martin? Im sure Lance Stroll would listen.

There is no realistic scenario where Mercedes gives them a PU. As it stands now, Renault and Ferrari only options.

Toto will be licking his chops at the prospect of not having to convince Max to replace Lewis when the latter hangs up his boots.

F150 · 2nd October 2020, 22:01

Quite a predicament for Red Bull. They will most likely go back to Renault. The Renault PU has good grunt.
The Honda PU was improving consistently, sad to see them go away.

But COVID also seems to be a major consideration in the final decison made by Honda.

Red Liner · 3rd October 2020, 05:18

Maybe Redbull buys out the honda engine facility and brings in Andy Cowell?! Maybe, just maybe!

akash_v12 · 3rd October 2020, 22:08

Quite a shocker for RedBull and AlphaTauri! With Honda just starting to give some competition to the Mercs, they decide to pull out! Like BHPian Redliner said, it would in Redbull's best interest to buy out the Milton Keynes Factory and get some competent and knowledgeable people to help with inputs. I'm sure they wouldn't want to go back to Renault for engines

philipmathen · 5th October 2020, 00:26

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301145154.html

Honda agrees deal to supply a bi-turbo 2.4 Litre v6 hybrid for the next generation of indycar starting 2023. I assume they will just dust off the F1 engine and carry on. Remember them saying they are committed to develop the engine till 2021-end in F1. Makes sense now. All the PR-speak about electric cars, FCVs and what not. Really hope they never return to F1. Really will not miss them. Couldn't compete since 2014, and now come up with the electric cars excuse! Good riddance!

ashwin.terminat · 5th October 2020, 12:18

The FIA can order the engine manufacturer with the fewest customers to supply to a team that has no engine partner. If it comes down to this, it will be Renault - who will have zero customers after McLaren move to Mercedes power from 2021.

2nd October 2020, 13:41	#1
RM Motorsports Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,269 Thanked: 5,166 Times	Honda to exit F1 (again)! Honda Motor Co., Ltd. today announced that it has decided to conclude its participation in the FIA1 Formula One (F1) World Championship as a power unit supplier at the end of the 2021 season. https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2...01002aeng.html Major blow to Redbull & Alpha Tauri. Will be interesting to see which engine they choose for future. Last edited by RM Motorsports : 2nd October 2020 at 13:50.*
	(7) Thanks

2nd October 2020, 13:48	#2
philipmathen BHPian Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: London Posts: 95 Thanked: 188 Times	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! Wow, that was quick with the new thread! Just posted about this. What a nightmare for RBR!
	(1) Thanks

2nd October 2020, 14:30	#3
rahulcmoulee BHPian Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 297 Thanked: 964 Times View My Garage	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! This is a kick in the guts for Red Bull and Alpha Tauri. Honda has made excellent strides forward after leaving McLaren. From being the worst PU to being on par with Renault and better than Ferrari this year was no small feat. It is always a shame to see a manufacturer leave the sport. The aggressive growl and rumble of the Honda engine will be missed. Red Bull will most likely be going back to Renault as it is highly unlikely that Mercedes or Ferrari will supply engines to their main rival. Will be fun to see Red Bull go back to Renault after their rather unpleasant divorce in 2018.
	(4) Thanks

2nd October 2020, 14:45	#4
Red Liner Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,209 Thanked: 18,044 Times	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! I don't think Redbull will go to Renault. I think they will bring in a new engine supplier and i also think Max will leave them by end 2021 to Mercedes to replace Hamilton and will pair alongside Russell.
	(3) Thanks

2nd October 2020, 15:10	#5
Shreyans_Jain Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: HR51/HR29/HR26 Posts: 2,751 Thanked: 21,225 Times	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! F1 power units have been limited to just 3 manufacturers, with Honda making a bits and pieces attempt. It is sad that they have decided to leave just when they have started to get good pace and reliability. Reminds me of their bonkers decision to pack up their factory racing team just when they had finally managed to build a properly competitive race winning car. Ross Brawn bought the team for peanuts and went on to with both drivers and constructors titles. F1 has a serious problem at hand that it can’t attract and sustain the interest of new players. Back in the V10 glory days, we had Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Honda and Ford either running full factory teams of providing engines. Even Cosworth powered backmarkers had their share of moments. Last edited by Shreyans_Jain : 2nd October 2020 at 15:19.
	(2) Thanks

2nd October 2020, 16:06	#7
shortbread Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: KL 7 Posts: 2,393 Thanked: 6,291 Times	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! I think Mercedes is likely to quit as well, my hunch feeling. There is nothing more they can achieve in F1, but there is millions that can be saved. Plus Formula E will be a new area of focus. Renault has re-entered F1 with half a heart. If Mercedes does quit, they might stay on longer as competing with Ferrari is a fairly low hanging fruit. But if Mercedes continues in the sport, hence continue their domination then Renault will say bye as well. F1 needs to bring in its own customer engine, using services of companies like Cosworth, TRW etc. So teams with tight budgets can buy engines off the shelves.
	() Thanks

2nd October 2020, 16:53	#8
RM Motorsports Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,269 Thanked: 5,166 Times	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! Redbull is very good at making chassis. The only deficit they have is power unit. Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault, all now have works team and even if they supply engine to Redbull, they wont like being beaten by a customer team. I don't see new engine manufacturers coming into F1 soon. Honda already have a base in Milton Keynes close to Redbull factory. Redbull has lots of MONEY as one can see from their annual budget. So best option for Redbull would be to take over Honda Engine Operations. They can themselves build and develop engines for future years. With the amount of MONEY Redbull have, they can easily hire couple of engine experts from rival teams. It's not easy as it sounds, as this will be the most expensive investment they can make. Today's Honda announcement will also have major shake-up in driver market. Once upon a time every driver wished to drive for Redbull after Mercedes. This all will now change from a driver's perspective.
	(2) Thanks

2nd October 2020, 16:58	#9
pedrolourenco Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Margao, Goa Posts: 1,268 Thanked: 1,527 Times View My Garage	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! Why am I not surprised. How many time in the past has Honda quit F1 only to return after a few years break.
	() Thanks

2nd October 2020, 18:27	#10
Hatari Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 1,872 Thanked: 874 Times	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! The bow breaks. Shame Honda are leaving the sport. The older V8s were not 'relevant' enough and the new PUs are too expensive. Automatically ruling out a direct entry of the Cosworths in the world. Quite the conundrum. Red Bull would not want to go back to Renault with a begging bowl! Im sure serious thought is being given to taking over Honda's operations... with a partnership with Cosworth/Aston Martin? Im sure Lance Stroll would listen. There is no realistic scenario where Mercedes gives them a PU. As it stands now, Renault and Ferrari only options. Toto will be licking his chops at the prospect of not having to convince Max to replace Lewis when the latter hangs up his boots.
	() Thanks

2nd October 2020, 22:01	#11
F150 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2011 Location: PUNE Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 870 Times View My Garage	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! Quite a predicament for Red Bull. They will most likely go back to Renault. The Renault PU has good grunt. The Honda PU was improving consistently, sad to see them go away. But COVID also seems to be a major consideration in the final decison made by Honda.
	(1) Thanks

3rd October 2020, 05:18	#12
Red Liner Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,209 Thanked: 18,044 Times	re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! Maybe Redbull buys out the honda engine facility and brings in Andy Cowell?! Maybe, just maybe!
	(4) Thanks

3rd October 2020, 22:08	#13
akash_v12 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Pune \| Mumbai Posts: 1,068 Thanked: 2,853 Times	Re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! Quite a shocker for RedBull and AlphaTauri! With Honda just starting to give some competition to the Mercs, they decide to pull out! Like BHPian Redliner said, it would in Redbull's best interest to buy out the Milton Keynes Factory and get some competent and knowledgeable people to help with inputs. I'm sure they wouldn't want to go back to Renault for engines
	(1) Thanks

5th October 2020, 00:26	#14
philipmathen BHPian Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: London Posts: 95 Thanked: 188 Times	Re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301145154.html Honda agrees deal to supply a bi-turbo 2.4 Litre v6 hybrid for the next generation of indycar starting 2023. I assume they will just dust off the F1 engine and carry on. Remember them saying they are committed to develop the engine till 2021-end in F1. Makes sense now. All the PR-speak about electric cars, FCVs and what not. Really hope they never return to F1. Really will not miss them. Couldn't compete since 2014, and now come up with the electric cars excuse! Good riddance!
	(3) Thanks

5th October 2020, 12:18	#15
ashwin.terminat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,711 Thanked: 2,192 Times	Re: Honda to exit F1 (again)! The FIA can order the engine manufacturer with the fewest customers to supply to a team that has no engine partner. If it comes down to this, it will be Renault - who will have zero customers after McLaren move to Mercedes power from 2021.
	() Thanks