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Old 13th September 2021, 07:31   #31
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

What a brilliant race at Monza.
It's been a long time coming for Danny Ric and what a way to win.
It's purely on pace and on merit. Good to see Ric on the top step again.
And a 1-2 for McLaren, that will give them the much needed boost in the constructor championship.

Disaster for both title contenders though. We will be seeing more such incidents in the coming races.
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Old 13th September 2021, 07:45   #32
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

While most of the discussion is around Lewis and Max, I just want to say that no matter what, Ricciardo won on absolute terms and it was well deserved! He got off the line ahead of Max, kept his lead until the pit stop, Redbull had issues in their pit stop and even if Max and Lewis did not collide, I think it would have been still difficult to overtake the Mclarens on this track. Lewis struggled overtaking Norris in the sprint and Max too could not overtake Ricciardo in the first stint.

This is a great morale booster for Ricciardo, he has been under the scanner so much this year, he really deserved this win! He is a very likeable guy and all his post race radio messages tell you about his personality, just no arrogance at all.

I thought the Ferraris did reasonably well considering this is a high speed track that everyone knew would not suit them. However I think Sainz should have kept up within 1 second of Leclerc to capitalise on Perez’s penalty.

With regard to Max and Lewis, well, we all know Max has been given a penalty by the stewards, and hence deemed guilty of causing the incident, but to me it would have been a racing incident if there was no sausage kerb. This sausage kerb sort of accentuated the incident and eventually it ended up being very dramatic, else it would have been just banging of wheels since they were quite slow at that corner. Anyway, this is fantastic, both of them don’t want to back down, Hamilton did his bit in Britain and now Max in Italy. If you ask me, Max needs to rethink his strategy a bit, he can win this championship, he has the car to do it. There are still a lot of races and many tracks will favour red bull more than Mercedes. But that’s not a racer’s intuition, isn’t it?
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Old 13th September 2021, 08:44   #33
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

I do wish F1 pushed for regulations not allowing teams to play driver politics / decisions and let the fight be among all drivers equally.

Bottas is a prime example of what happens when one of the driver is given preference (for multiple reasons, most of all preventing scenarios like Hamilton-Rosberg conflicts) of a top class driver relegated to the secondary role and eventually losing out in the longer run.

McLaren/Norris is another example as seem yesterday, multiple radio conversations indicated that Norris had potential to even go for the first position but the team clearly said over the call that the current 1-2 was best for the team. Otherwise would have been a even more interesting race to the end.
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Old 13th September 2021, 08:52   #34
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

What a race! Eventful for those few seconds between Max and Lewis but otherwise fairly uneventful.

1) The Halo saves yet another life.
2) Bottas when asked on his reaction. Priceless.
3) The celebrations from Daniel on the podium were quite the entertainment, esp when he indulged Norris and Brown in his shoey. Zak seemed to enjoy it the most. McLaren 1-2 afterall! Bottas looked like he wanted to drink out of Danny's shoe too!

4) The main bit: while I feel both HAM and VER have some part to play in the accident, it was a purely racing incident. Stewards have shown their bias yet again, by handing VER a three-place penalty.

Any chance this will be reduced/overturned?

Saw a comment on Instagram about how stewards seemed to have missed HAM desperately trying to reverse his car, while VER was still in his car / trying to get out.

What a sour baby, Lewis.

Sad for Perez to have missed the podium.
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Old 13th September 2021, 08:55   #35
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post

Sad for Perez to have missed the podium.
That was incredibly stupid of him not to give back to the other driver at that turn. Especially after he'd been warned on the previous race for an exactly similar incident/situation. What Leclarc did with Bottas was the perfect example of how to handle such a situation and yet not lose the position (which he gained back immediately).
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Old 13th September 2021, 11:41   #36
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

It was McLaren's weekend all through. They were incredibly strong in Monza and boy did they capitalise on the action. Even in the sprint Lando did not break into much of a sweat to keep Lewis behind. The race was a continuation of the same. However the composure and the big game mentality of Mclaren was for all to see. It's evident that they have still know how to win. Ironically it was the pit lane champs Reb Bull who blinked and ruined a sure second place for Max.

Great to see Riccardo back to winning ways for the first time since 2018 and it's also ironic that he did it beating Max Verstappen into the first corner. Max incidently was the one who put paid to Riccardo's stint in Red Bull. Lando Norris is incredible as well. His pass on Leclerc on the restart dipping a rear tire into the grass was pure balls.

The underachiever for me was Perez. While his climb up the ranks was decent, the final result did not appear remarkable. While it was okay to take the penalty after the race, his race would have been better served by giving the place back after straight lining the corner. However I remember the cars behind one of which was Bottas closing upto the back of Leclerc pretty fast so it is also a possibility that he may have lost more places in the process. However improving his qualifying pace would help Red Bull's campaign tremendously as was evidenced in Baku.

Bottas seems to have rediscovered his mojo having been freed from the clutches of Mercedes and the pressure of having to play wingman to Hamilton. Till he latched on to the tail of Sergio Perez he was literally on a rampage through the field. I am looking forward to his performance at Alfa Romeo.

It's a shame that Gasly's campaign came to nothing. Having him in the mix would definitely have spiced things up more.

If Copse was a racing incident so is the coming together between Max and Lewis in my book. While the halo was a life saver, perhaps this also highlights the eventual need for a closed cockpit. Anyway seems that stewards are inventing plenty of new phrases these days - first time i am hearing of "ëarning the right to racing room." A racing driver who would voluntarily secede racing room to other drivers is yet to be found. Formula 1 has always been a political sport and now Wolff is the closest to Eccelstone that we have had in a long time. Given that Max anyway had to take an grid penalty for an extra engine, the penalty would not make much of an impact other than on optics. Would be interesting in Mercedes decide to take the grid penalty for Lewis in the same race.

Drive on,
Shibu
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Old 13th September 2021, 12:33   #37
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

Well deserved win for Ricciardo! He definitely needed this given how his season was going. Always good to see someone other than RedBull or Mercedes winning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
McLaren/Norris is another example as seem yesterday, multiple radio conversations indicated that Norris had potential to even go for the first position but the team clearly said over the call that the current 1-2 was best for the team. Otherwise would have been a even more interesting race to the end.
Ricciardo had it in control. At no point did he look vulnerable to anyone from behind. Norris and Ricciardo battling at the front would have meant giving that little chance to RedBull and Mercedes (who both failed to capitalize multiple opportunities this weekend) to take away a well deserved victory, which has come after a long time. I don't remember when McLaren had a 1-2 finish last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
Sad for Perez to have missed the podium.
I think Perez has had an average season in general this season except for few come-from-the-back races, and that inherited Baku win. He is in a car that's capable of winning races, and expected to qualify higher and fight with Bottas at the front, instead he spends most of his time battling with Ferraris and McLarens. Also he could do without those time penalties (it was same in Austria too).

Last edited by SilentEngine : 13th September 2021 at 12:33. Reason: typo
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Old 13th September 2021, 14:37   #38
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

Given Ricciardo had enough pace to nail fastest lap by a decent margin on the last lap, and how both Merc and Red Bull struggled to pass once around comparable (on pace) cars, it's difficult to imagine anyone getting by one, forget two McLarens.

Bottas had a clear advantage for a few laps with medium tires compared to the frontrunners on hards, but that wasn't going to last the entire stint. One of Riccardo's broadcast radio messeges, around the time Bottas was charging through the pack, said as much 'hold on and the hards will be the better race tire' (I paraphrase).
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Old 13th September 2021, 16:46   #39
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

Wow what a race for McLaren. The fallen giant is raising again. So good to see them taking 1-2 after a decade

Its always cheesy when Max and Lewis go wheel to wheel. Both doesn't wanna give an inch to other. In my eyes Max is little faulty with his ill fated move as Lewis was ahead and should have shown some sportsmanship by checking Lewis if he is okay rather than walking away after the crash (Im not a Lewis fanboy).

"Halo" definitely saved Lewis here. Things would have been horrendous without it.

Its the most happiest podium of the season. Love Danny Ric's attitude. Total bravery and breathtaking moves from Lando on Lewis and Charles. A well deserved podium for Valtteri.
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Old 13th September 2021, 18:53   #40
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

Max said on the radio " that's is what you get when you don't leave space" and then just walks away. One can sugar coat it all they want but its deliberate. Max never gives space, is method is simply bullying the other drivers to yield.
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Old 14th September 2021, 10:17   #41
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

The photos of the rear wheel on the halo are damn scary!

Ironically, I believe Max criticized the halo at one time (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/mot...alo-verstappen), he should reconsider, it just saved him a lifetime of guilt for being involved in what would certainly have been a tragic ending yesterday!

Last edited by am1m : 14th September 2021 at 10:20.
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Old 14th September 2021, 11:24   #42
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

A friend sent these.

Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021-unnesesaryrisksaremypassion.jpg

Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021-f1istiring.jpg

On a more serious note, I am happy Lewis is unhurt. Goes to show how awesome the Halo is.

I do not think Max made any mistake. As seen here, the kerb was the main culprit.


As for the aggressive driving, it is a race and winning means everything for all drivers (Lewis included). Even the Schumacher Hill incident resulted in a flying car. Has happened before, will happen in the future.

Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021-flying-car-f1.png
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Old 14th September 2021, 12:08   #43
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

Quite possibly the best race of this season thus far!

As Bottas mentioned after the race, the accident was “unfortunate”.

And if Leclerc was asked about it, I’m sure he would have said “nothing it was just an inschedent”

Just like the Silverstone shunt, this one was also a racing incident. Hamilton could have perhaps done something to avoid the Silverstone shunt and Verstappen could have backed out and avoided the incident in Monza. But we must remind ourselves of the famous quote by Senna: “if you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver!”.

It’s shocking that some people here are calling for Verstappen to receive a race ban! It is clear that their support for one driver is severely clouding their judgment. It has to be said. What if the roles were reversed? Would you have the same opinion?

In fact, I think the 3-place grid penalty is quite harsh. The huge 51g shunt in Silverstone led to Max being wheeled to hospital and RB incurring huge expenses against the mangled remains of the car, and all Hamilton got was a measly 10 second penalty for under steering into that corner and nudging Verstappen while doing 180 mph around Corpse. In the Monza incident, absolutely nothing happened to either of them except for bruised egos. The PUs and gearboxes of both cars were good too. But Max got a 3-place grid penalty instead. If anything, I strongly believe both drivers were at fault at Monza - Max for being aggressive into the corner and Lewis for squeezing him out and not leaving a car’s width the moment he exited the pit lane.

Those sausage kerbs contributed to the incident a whole lot more than Max dive-bombing into the corner in my opinion. People who call for race bans should seriously evaluate themselves. Absolutely ridiculous! This is racing. Which brings me to the stewards handing out time and grid penalties like toffees. It’s time they re-evaluate themselves as well.

All things aside, I am thrilled to see Danny Ric on the top step of the podium - and his performance was not the result of the protagonists crashing out, it was off his own accord. Norris must be upset as he was slowly working towards getting McLaren their first victory in years, but it was nice to see him celebrate with Danny Ric and the team together.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 14th September 2021 at 12:13.
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Old 14th September 2021, 15:02   #44
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
It’s shocking that some people here are calling for Verstappen to receive a race ban! It is clear that their support for one driver is severely clouding their judgment. It has to be said. What if the roles were reversed? Would you have the same opinion?
This was a case of going for a gap which wasn’t there. In this case Max should have backed off, Lewis was ahead and had no reason to back off. I feel Lewis would have backed off in exactly the same position as this accident was sure to happen otherwise. Not sure if what Wolff suggested about the tactical foul is true or not since Max is five points ahead and both not finishing suits him perfectly rather than Lewis winning.

Red Bull will probably take this opportunity to change Max’s engine and other components as required and finish with it at the next race in Sochi.

Not a blind fan of either, let them fight.

Cheers
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Old 14th September 2021, 16:21   #45
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Re: Formula 1 | 2021 Italian Grand Prix | Monza | 10-12 September, 2021

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Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
This was a case of going for a gap which wasn’t there. In this case Max should have backed off, Lewis was ahead and had no reason to back off. I feel Lewis would have backed off in exactly the same position as this accident was sure to happen otherwise. Not sure if what Wolff suggested about the tactical foul is true or not since Max is five points ahead and both not finishing suits him perfectly rather than Lewis winning.

Red Bull will probably take this opportunity to change Max’s engine and other components as required and finish with it at the next race in Sochi.

Not a blind fan of either, let them fight.

Cheers
If my memory serves me right, even Brundle in the commentary box concluded that Lewis was in the wrong here. And Brundle has always favoured Lewis. And it's not like Max was a car's length behind either. Lewis only had his nose ahead as the both of them attempted to navigate the corner.

Lewis in the same position would have backed off, maybe? Maybe not? Max does not back down at all and we have established that. He is hungry. Despite the several DNFs to his name, Max has found himself on top of the table. Lewis on the other hand has more to lose. His 100th win has eluded him for a while.

I am not blaming Lewis here. He was well within his right to close the door. And Max was equally within his right to make the move. Which is why I strongly believe this was a racing incident, with the blame to be shared between Max and Lewis 60:40, and Silverstone would be 40:60 in my opinion.
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