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Old 13th December 2021, 15:19   #166
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

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Originally Posted by OrangeCar View Post
F1 stewards award the championship to Max! Max won. But what a loser he is to have won it like this. The best racer did not win it.
Have to admit Mercedes made a huge blunder by not pitting Lewis during the 1st safety car disruption. Lewis would have had enough time and power to take back his position, even if he would have lost it during the pit stop.
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Old 13th December 2021, 15:57   #167
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

It seems like the whole F1 world and TeamBHP forum are truly divided about the final outcome. But the thing people really need to understand is this is part of any competitive sports. Epic drama and heartbreak is part of the package. The same thing would’ve happened if the roles were reversed.
For me it is really simple. Hamilton deserved Abu Dhabi GP win and Verstappen deserved the championship title.
PS - The one thing that irked me the most was Toto’s radio message to Race director saying not to deploy the Safety Car during Giovanazzi’s incident. It is not his place to suggest something like that. No team principal should be allowed interfere or even have a say in such situations. Period. May be that incident made me enjoy when Masi snapped at Toto and said “We went motor racing”.
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Old 13th December 2021, 15:57   #168
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

What a race and what a fitting race to be the final one for this season. Whatever the outcome of the race be, whoever maybe the Champion, I think yesterday the clear winner was Checo. The way he held back Hamilton for that long in a car that obviously has less power or speed was amazing. In my eyes, he is the winner and has been ever since the Sahara Force India days.
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Old 13th December 2021, 16:37   #169
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

In the space of a few laps, F1 went from "Drive to Survive" to "Contrive to Survive".
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Old 13th December 2021, 16:42   #170
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
The backmarkers neither Mercedes or Red Bull could have known whether they would be allowed to unlap themselves as this was a last lap thing it could have been either ways.
Even Masi didn't know, he changed his mind. Why?

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
They have the car with that beast of a power unit, they got Lewis at the very top of his game and yet they played it a little too safe. And what a mega performance by Perez!

In hindsight, Merc should have just given up track position and went for the attack themselves.

Which brings us to Masi and he has been found severely wanting this season. And both teams have gained and lost from his calls. So, over the course of the season, it all averages out I guess.
From Mercedes point of view, for Max to win:

1. They had to finish under green
2. All unlapped cars would be permitted to un-lap themselves (aka get out of the way)

Both were unlikely events, but both happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
6. Michael Massi pulling in the safety car at the end of the penultimate lap and allowing only select drivers (between Ham and Ver) to un-lap themselves was very unfair.

Lewis has taken this on the chin, because he is a gentleman of the sport.

Inconsistent Stewarding and calls by the Race Director throughout the year need to be looked into. Mercedes is doing the right thing by Appealing the dismissed protests lodged by them.
Agreed. Lack of consistency (and maybe even transparency) in FIA's calls made the F1 look more like WWF with Hamilton being Hulk Hogan and Max being Macho Man (Randy Savage). Only the outfits are missing.

Hamilton's post-race reaction was cool. I didn't have much respect for Hamilton as a person before, this changed.

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Originally Posted by parrys View Post
Every time he notices things are not going his way, he will immediately be on the radio trying to set a narrative. Then the blind fanboys will simply PASTE it everywhere.
The way I see it.

Assuming FIA/Masi had made it clear to all teams that once the safety car is out of the way, unlapped cars would be allowed to un-lap themselves, and understanding this Hamilton also came in to pit and switched to soft.

Hamilton would be behind Max with both on fresh soft tyres.

Granted Hamilton had the better car, yet with this same "better" car and fresh hard rubber, he took a while to pass Perez who was on fading soft tyres. And Perez was even able to come back at Hamilton with those soft fading tyres.

For Hamilton to then pass Max, even with a better car but equal tyres, would have been a long shot. Perez may be "a beast" but Max (with everything he had to lose) would have thrown the car at Hamilton. And Hamilton would have just 1 lap to make his overtake and make it stick. That's not a lot of time.

Last edited by navin : 13th December 2021 at 16:48.
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Old 13th December 2021, 16:50   #171
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

Huge congratulations to Max and Red Bull! Firstly Lewis should have given the place back to Max after their clash in the opening laps. Or at least the gap should have been the same.
If not for Max we would not have had such an exciting season so lets give credit to them for that at least.
I had just said to my wife "oh well..same old..same old" and was about to switch the TV off when suddenly Latifi crashed. Instantly knew that the safety car would have to be brought out. The change in Masi's decision was a weird one but I feel the right one.
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Old 13th December 2021, 17:06   #172
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

Masi made a mess again! He should be replaced before the next season begins.

Even though he (Masi) flip-flopped on the lapped cars overtaking, he should have ensured ALL the lapped cars have unlapped themselves, Stroll, Alonso and Ricciardo did not. This technicality may find favour when it goes into litigation, no uniform following of the rules. Either allow all lapped cars to unlap themselves or none.

This probably would have meant the race would have ended under the safety car and handed the championship to Hamilton. I am sure had this been any other race and not a championship decider it would have ended under safety car conditions without overtakes.

Masi wanted to show he is allowing “racing” but by not maintaining uniformity plunged himself into another completely avoidable mess.

Cheers
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Old 13th December 2021, 17:11   #173
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

It's very interesting to see the side stories that get missed out completely when the focus is on the lead story.

Before Abu Dhabi F1 race, the 2021 Driver Standings were
#1 - #4 : Mercedes & Red Bull drivers
#5 Charles Leclere - 158 points
#6 Lando Norris - 154 points
#7 Carlos Sainz - 149.5 points

Thanks to Checo, after the race, the 2021 Driver Standings are
#1 - #4 : Mercedes & Red Bull drivers
#5 Carlos Sainz - 164.5 points
#6 Lando Norris - 160 points
#7 Charles Leclere - 159 points

Sainz got a lucky breather for getting a podium finish but either way he would have been #5 on the Drivers Standings even if Checo didn't quit. But both Lando & Leclere would have been stuck on 158 points if Checo didn't quit the race and finished at P3.

But that was known only at the end. I'm sure this was a fight these three would have battled out throughout the race but their fight got sidelined by the one at the front. Let's hope Netflix picks up this as one of their episodes!
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Old 13th December 2021, 17:22   #174
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueFreedom View Post
Utter incompetent decision making from Masi, I’m pretty sure neither Max nor Hamilton would like the WDC to be resolved in the courts... this is completely on FIA not on RB not on Merc, this season was one of the best seasons in the recent memory only to be tarnished by incompetence of Masi, he should go
I agree. And I said as much on a previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
Which brings us to Masi and he has been found severely wanting this season. And both teams have gained and lost from his calls. So, over the course of the season, it all averages out I guess. Though, I will be very surprised if he keeps his position or this level of control next season.
Stewardship + race director should be more consistent. I think where Charlie shone was his debrief with drivers & teams on race weekends. Everyone was clear on what is fine and what is going to be penalized. Right now, nobody is sure what is okay and what is not. Same for other things like stoppages, SC etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
From Mercedes point of view, for Max to win....Both were unlikely events, but both happened.
I was not talking about pitting when the Canadian put it on the wall, but earlier. Mercedes got the fastest car in race trim. So, why be a sitting duck on older tyres? Instead of managing tyres, they should have been more aggressive. And there was also no need to pit so early to cover Max. I am not blaming Merc. What they did made sense then. Again, quoting my previous post here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
But then hindsight is 20/20. In the world of F1, circumstances are always stacked against leaders who got the most to lose.
Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Every pit is fraught with mistakes that can happen. We have seen enough to know that. Why risk pitting when there is no need to do so.

The pit window (at Yas) was about 22 seconds. Hamilton would have lost position if he was less than 22 seconds ahead.
Yes, it always risk/ reward with a pitstop. But its much more reliable nowadays without refueling, I feel! Though anything can always happen. And that's motorsport.

And yes, Lewis will have to overtake on track. But you got to put some faith in your machine and your driver.

Again, all this is in hindsight. Like I said, what Merc did made sense, when they did it. But had they gone aggressive, they could have taken greater control of the race. That's what got them such a strong second half of the season. It looks like the very strong race pace + low tyre degred on that car almost worked against them here.

Last edited by deetjohn : 13th December 2021 at 17:35. Reason: Adding quote.
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Old 13th December 2021, 17:25   #175
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
I was not talking about pitting when the Canadian put it on the wall, but earlier. Mercedes got the fastest car in race trim. So, why be a sitting duck on older tyres? Instead of managing tyres, they should have been more aggressive. And there was also no need to pit so early to cover Max. I am not blaming Merc. What they did made sense then. Again, quoting my previous post here.
Every pit is fraught with mistakes that can happen. We have seen enough to know that. Why risk pitting when there is no need to do so.

The pit window (at Yas) was about 22 seconds. Hamilton would have lost position if he was less than 22 seconds ahead.
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Old 13th December 2021, 17:28   #176
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
The way I see it.

Assuming FIA/Masi had made it clear to all teams that once the safety car is out of the way, unlapped cars would be allowed to un-lap themselves, and understanding this Hamilton also came in to pit and switched to soft.

Hamilton would be behind Max with both on fresh soft tyres.

Granted Hamilton had the better car, yet with this same "better" car and fresh hard rubber, he took a while to pass Perez who was on fading soft tyres. And Perez was even able to come back at Hamilton with those soft fading tyres.

For Hamilton to then pass Max, even with a better car but equal tyres, would have been a long shot. Perez may be "a beast" but Max (with everything he had to lose) would have thrown the car at Hamilton. And Hamilton would have just 1 lap to make his overtake and make it stick. That's not a lot of time.
There can be so many options one can think about. So many strategy combinations.

But in the end, HAMILTON lost. Max WON.
Why is it hard to accept?

If it was the exact same situation, with the drivers swapped, LH44 supporters would have been claiming this last lap to be the best ever in the history of F1. They would have claimed that this was the best thing that happened on earth, after earth itself.

Lewis had a RAPID car all these years, and yes he is talented. But he needs to stop throwing so many tantrums when he is not on the winning side. And his fans must accept it too.

Last edited by parrys : 13th December 2021 at 17:41.
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Old 13th December 2021, 17:53   #177
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

After a few free world titles, Hamiton meets a worthy contender. If not for that car I am pretty sure Lewis would not be winning titles and instead cribbing in the radio about everything around him. Cry baby is an apt title and when everything fails he will start using his race card. Allow Russel to race next year and not be a side step and even Mercedes will know it is their car that is making a difference and Russel probably will drive faster than the old lucky Hamilton. If at all someone has been extremely lucky in F1 it is Hamilton. Jumped to Mercedes at the right time when other car manufacturers were at least a second slower than Mercedes. He had no competition except Rosberg and we all know what he did to Nico as well then. Mercedes can try pulling whatever clout they want but Max winning yesterday is the best thing that can happen to this sport. Hamilton will never be a top driver in my books. The fact that they had a lawyer ready for the last race shows what a mafia these car manufacturing teams are.

Thanks for a good Sunday, to finally have a worthy competitor, in an inferior car, creating history and, what a teammate to have in Perez. He has always been my favorite driver and a consistent performer. Hail Perez and Max for reviving viewership.

P.S. As much as your opinion counts to nothing so are mine. But I have made peace with my opinion and do not see it any otherwise.

Last edited by VW2010 : 13th December 2021 at 17:55.
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Old 13th December 2021, 17:57   #178
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

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Originally Posted by Wolvie2687 View Post
Lets hope for a much closer and thrilling 2022 season.
Closer than this?!
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Old 13th December 2021, 18:04   #179
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

It was an awesome race, down to the last lap, overturning predictions, like the TV commentators said ‘ in live sports anything can change before the end’ and it did, F1 will get more Dutch fans now.
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Old 13th December 2021, 18:33   #180
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Re: Formula 1 | Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021 | Yas Marina Circuit | 10 - 12 December, 2021 - The Finale

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
For Hamilton to then pass Max, even with a better car but equal tyres, would have been a long shot. Perez may be "a beast" but Max (with everything he had to lose) would have thrown the car at Hamilton. And Hamilton would have just 1 lap to make his overtake and make it stick. That's not a lot of time.
As I replied another person on this thread. The virtual safety car on lap 37 was the perfect time, he had 21 laps on hand. And I fully expect Redbull wouldn't have pitted Max to gain track position, given they had a 17 second gap at that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
If at all someone has been extremely lucky in F1 it is Hamilton. Jumped to Mercedes at the right time when other car manufacturers were at least a second slower than Mercedes. He had no competition except Rosberg and we all know what he did to Nico as well then.
Maybe you missed this article. It was master strategist Ross Brawn that was instrumental in getting Lewis onboard.
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