[Jay]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

dont make lame excuses

..look who's talking...

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

neither did michael and kimi tell u what strategy they were on

And when did i proclaim that they told me ???

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

but if watch the race closely then u can make out that michael was heavier than massa because he was driving conservatively and that is one thing he dosent do if he is on a light fuel

After watching the qualifying, its but obvious that Kimi was heavier than Schumi... and with a one stop strategy, who knows... he might have won the race...

My friend there are no IF's and BUT's in F1... the results speak for themselves... Alonso second...Schumi third... Kimi out... FULL STOP.

No point in arguing about it....

[ranjan united]

Originally Posted by ess_a

My friend the drivers in F1 are no jerks.... If they need years of practice just to get the hang of the track, they should better sit at home and enjoy their sunday afternoon... Three practice sessions and numerous computer simulations are enough to let them know how the track behaves and how much fast they can go on the turns and corners...

I do not agree. As seasons pass on by, a driver learns more and more about the limits of the track and how much he can push, whether he is an F1 driver or not. that is 1 reason why newbies perform very well on newer tracks, as good as pro drivers, coz its a clean start for all. its all about experience.

Originally Posted by ess_a

Dude its easier said than done... As for the "dirty air" please explain how- "in F1 you get the dirty air of the car in front of you if you aren't too close to the car in front of u."
You mean if you are too close then you wont get the "dirty air" !!!

Outside F1, the term 'dirty air' is loosely thrown about. what 'sujaylahiri' has said is correct in technical terms. Following is a medley I created from reading technical articles in Scientific American and F1 magazine for a few years.
The sole purpose of the rear-wing in a car, and i mean any car, is to provide downforce. The slots in the rear-wing forcefully re-direct the flow of the air upwards, like little jets, causin the rear end of the car to push down on the track. The more the angle, the more downforce (drag, which slows down the car, increases but that can be solved with shorter gear ratios; I wont go into it in detail now). As the car cuts through the air, it creates an almost perfect vaccum behind it. The air that has been pushed upwards, quickly descends to fill up that 'vaccum'. F1 car noses are made to deal with stationary air, pushing it into the side intakes and over the drivers head, into the overhead intakes, when in a straight line. in corners, front wing angle allows for oversteer and understeer. when u are not too close to the car ahead, you are basically entering the area as the air is coming back down and clashing with the air currents that come from the cars sides (all intakes and side-pods are designed with a 'hug' effect to reduce drag, which means that the air around the intakes hugs the car bodywork as it is forced out besides the rear wings; some of the air is used to cool the rear brakes). F1 car noses cant redirect that "dirty-air" since it is not stationary. in a straight line, this causes a cars side intakes to take in some less air causing some overheating. in corners though, it plays havoc with a cars handling due to unusual over or under steer.
When a car is too close behind another one, it wont get "dirty air" or any air for that matter. that is the main principle and theory of drafting; u are faster coz there is no air barrier and hence no air friction. unfortunately in an F1 car, no air means no cooling from the intakes, sides and overhead and that overheats the engine.
To combat thiese problems, the FIA is planning to introduce split rear wings from as early as 2008. Basically, these wing will sit right above the rear tyres. so the cars wont loose any downforce and at the same time, it will also help increase overtaking oppurtunities and reduce engine or front-wing failure.

p.s. Sorry for the long post, but I have been studying and researching F1 aerodynamics for years now. helps to bond with the sport, if you know some of its advanced technical details.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by suman

10th September......

Thanks for the info.....

[ess_a]

Originally Posted by ranjan united

Outside F1, the term 'dirty air' is loosely thrown about. what 'sujaylahiri' has said is correct in technical terms. Following is a medley I created from reading technical articles in Scientific American and F1 magazine for a few years.
The sole purpose of the rear-wing in a car, and i mean any car, is to provide downforce. The slots in the rear-wing forcefully re-direct the flow of the air upwards, like little jets, causin the rear end of the car to push down on the track. The more the angle, the more downforce (drag, which slows down the car, increases but that can be solved with shorter gear ratios; I wont go into it in detail now). As the car cuts through the air, it creates an almost perfect vaccum behind it. The air that has been pushed upwards, quickly descends to fill up that 'vaccum'. F1 car noses are made to deal with stationary air, pushing it into the side intakes and over the drivers head, into the overhead intakes, when in a straight line. in corners, front wing angle allows for oversteer and understeer. when u are not too close to the car ahead, you are basically entering the area as the air is coming back down and clashing with the air currents that come from the cars sides (all intakes and side-pods are designed with a 'hug' effect to reduce drag, which means that the air around the intakes hugs the car bodywork as it is forced out besides the rear wings; some of the air is used to cool the rear brakes). F1 car noses cant redirect that "dirty-air" since it is not stationary. in a straight line, this causes a cars side intakes to take in some less air causing some overheating. in corners though, it plays havoc with a cars handling due to unusual over or under steer.
When a car is too close behind another one, it wont get "dirty air" or any air for that matter. that is the main principle and theory of drafting; u are faster coz there is no air barrier and hence no air friction. unfortunately in an F1 car, no air means no cooling from the intakes, sides and overhead and that overheats the engine.
To combat thiese problems, the FIA is planning to introduce split rear wings from as early as 2008. Basically, these wing will sit right above the rear tyres. so the cars wont loose any downforce and at the same time, it will also help increase overtaking oppurtunities and reduce engine or front-wing failure.

p.s. Sorry for the long post, but I have been studying and researching F1 aerodynamics for years now. helps to bond with the sport, if you know some of its advanced technical details.

My mistake.... I thought what sujay was referring to was to the hot exhaust air coming frm the car in front which effectively reduces your cars cooling power...
Anyway thanks ranjan for explaining drafting all too well... earlier i knew it happened, now i know how...

As for the experience part... I agree that real time experience can be of good value but not all that significant, that without which you cant overtake... The limits are all to well computer simulated even before these people land up on a track... An example from this sunday's race.... Both alonso and Schumi had equal experience of the track... still alonso was faster than MS on the crucial turn 8th (i think it was 8th only)... However the max fastest laps were by schumi... Ferrari was compensating the speed at that corner for greater speed in the faster sections and better braking...
The ferrari was tuned to be the fastest on track as both of them started from pole... (surely they were) And not tuned for overtaking (no body could have predicted the safety car pd) It was not the track experience that made ferrari the fastest car on track that day, but the computer data and analysis...

[madhav]

Qulaifying
Kimi on pole
Alonso
Schumi

Race result
Kimi
Schumi
Alonso
Pedro
Fisi instructed to drive right into Massa if he cannot salvage any champioship points otherwise,
Massa/Button 5th
one of the toyota's will be 6th

7th and 8th... well who cares.

Fisi will be trying very hard to race with RBR, BMW and Toro Rosso.

[ess_a]

Originally Posted by madhav

Fisi instructed to drive right into Massa if he cannot salvage any champioship points otherwise

Is that only for fisi or is fonsi is also getting briefed???

[deepakhon]

Originally Posted by madhav

Fisi instructed to drive right into Massa if he cannot salvage any champioship points .

I thought it was the other way round. I was thinking Massa will be instructed to drive right into Alonso

This track looks like a Ferrari track. I am giving MS and FM more chances than FA and poor KR.

[suman]

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

In the end, I think he just took it easy and preserved his 3rd position.

To give the devil his due, we bombarded his style in Hungary and said he should have just let the guys behind him go by instead of taking himself out of the race....so he was probably listening to us this time.

But, hey, I'm not a Schumi fan yet, just giving a rational view on this one!

[Jay]

Originally Posted by madhav

Fisi instructed to drive right into Massa if he cannot salvage any champioship points otherwise

... Reminds me of Montoya's incidents with Schumi....

[normally_crazy]

Note from Support Team : - This thread is closed.

The Istanbul race is over and done with . Its time to look ahead and concentrate on Monza.

Cheers

[MasterPlans]

Originally Posted by sridhar24

This time i don't think Renault and Fernando can spoil Ferrari's party at Monza, we can definetly expect Schumi at the top step of the podium. Renault though are not as good as ferrari, they are still better than the rest of the cars on the track. There will be lot of pressure on Fisichella this time as Ferrari are closing the gap in championship.

Monza will be the decider for the championship this year... mark my words Alonso will take atleast 6 points more tha MSC and close the drivers championship...constructors championship will go down to the wire.

[ranjan united]

http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/5917830

F1 legend and ex-Ferrari drver himself, Nicki Lauda thinks that Schumacher is dropping in form. he also says that Massa is slowly overtaking Schumi as Ferrari's no 1 driver (i.e. if Michael continues in F1).
Personally, I agree. I feel that Ferrari have groomed Massa enuff as a worthy contender and should let him loose next season, even if it means demoting Schumacher to no.2. I think for that sole purpose, Schumacher should retire end of this season, win or loose. as I have said before, like Pete 'pistol' Sampras, quit at the top.

[madhav]

Agree massa is turning into a pretty good race driver and makes very few mistakes compared to Rubens. I'd be delighted to see Kimi and Alonso pair in a Super McLaren next season. Ofcourse would want Kimi to win it and Alonso a close second. Wish the McLaren Glory days start with next year!

[cheap_deal]

1.Schumi
2.kimi
3.massa
4.alonso
5.button

[X-Machine]

Kimi
Schumi
Alonso