Jerez 97 - michael hits villeneuve to try & win championship

Abhay · 2nd May 2005, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by zen

I was an MS/Ferrari fan then and still am..
He was obviously wrong doing this.. but it just showed how desperate they were for the championship..... Ferrari/MS got so close to the championship during the initial years...

It was only his 2nd year with the team and he did not expect to win in 96 anyways when he joined them. so you cannot really say how tehy got SO close since in 96 they were nowhere..It was only the 2 Williams cars for the title.

I know how much Ferrari wanted a title but doing this (not for the 1st time too) was a really really shameful act.

raihan · 2nd May 2005, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abhay

I know how much Ferrari wanted a title but doing this (not for the 1st time too) was a really really shameful act.

Yes it was! but Prost, Senna have done the same thing with each other. Just cause Shuey did it too dosen't take away anything away from him. Hes a great driver whether u like it or not.
cheers,

SCARLET · 2nd May 2005, 16:08

more simple and easy
what has JV achieved after winning the title that year
and what has MS achieved since then

the answer is 7 world titles , should have been 8 if not for the stall at suzuka when he was leading the championship by 1 point and was on pole

look at his 7 titles, no one really knows what was running in his head when he turned in ,
may be he thought he could close the gate and turned in

we never know but the saga will continue

Abhay · 2nd May 2005, 16:55

This is not a discussion about his driving skills people.
I have already said I admire and respect his ability to drive!
Prost and Senna did it but they had a history of it. I dont remember JV turning into MS! I never said these things haven't been done before, I was pointing out that defending Michael for that thing is not on when he himself accepted that he did turn in.

papps · 2nd May 2005, 16:57

JV was unlucky and had a bad car the next year, and he has been pretty unlucky after that too, same thing happened to damon hill after 96, he got a seat only in the arrows in 97, they were unlucky
no doubt schumi is a great driver but still thats no excuse for behaving like that on the track is seriously not sportmanlike and shouldnt be acceptable in 94 and 97, they were few other incidents where he was also warned about his behaviour on the track apart from these 2

Hatari · 2nd May 2005, 19:58

Quote:

did you forget Imola 2000 post race press conference when Schumacher overtook Ayrton Senna's 43 victories record ....

dont u think thats a little different ?
just like all those drivers who wept publicly after senna's death
those arent 'cry baby' tears..
mika's were out of his own doing

Gordon · 2nd May 2005, 20:14

I can't understand why you're calling him a "cry baby" or cursing him for that.
I mean so what if he cried in public. Who knows what he cried for?!
He must've been in complete pressure, there may have been other things on his mind that were troubling him and the spin must've been enough to crack him.

Moreover, when you're in a place like that, there is too much pressure/tension about the yourself, race, the championship, the sponsors, your family and relatives, etc. and it can really get to you. It is very easy to criticize someone, but when put in the same position, one realizes how difficult it is to face the pressure/tension and the criticism from the public.

Abhay · 3rd May 2005, 10:13

well said Gordon !!
for some reason when we are talking about a nasty thing that Schumi did in the past, his fans seem to want to try to ridicule Hakkinen for ....crying !!
who cares if he cried or not ? atleast he didn't try to take his rival out

Hatari · 6th May 2005, 01:47

Quote:

Moreover, when you're in a place like that, there is too much pressure/tension about the yourself, race, the championship, the sponsors, your family and relatives, etc. and it can really get to you. It is very easy to criticize someone, but when put in the same position, one realizes how difficult it is to face the pressure/tension and the criticism from the public.

all F1 drivers go through it.. they are all under pressure to perform day in & day out
just the other day there was talk that schumi should retire after he had had a couple of not so good races

Quote:

for some reason when we are talking about a nasty thing that Schumi did in the past, his fans seem to want to try to ridicule Hakkinen for ....crying !!

i'm not ridiculing mika, its just something i found quite amusing..
did u not watch it on tv ?
him crounching, helmet in hand behind a tyre wall in tears

Abhay · 6th May 2005, 10:49

hatari, I did watch it..it was mildly amusing to an extent...but surely it wasnt a bad thing to do like ramming into somebody hehe..just maybe a little embarassing though it did show the very human/emotional side of Mika :-)

What I meant was this topic was about the great god Michael's dark side but conveniently MS fans turn their heads away and talk abt something else.

Anyways enough of our sparring...its all in a good vein I think

aveek · 11th May 2005, 02:16

Somehow, Ive never liked MS or Ferrari much ever since I got into F-1. There's something bout Schu that is menacing and very hash/bully-like. He will try to puch his weight (and, as discussed, car!!) around, and push (yuk yuk yuk!!!) everyone around. I do not like his stance towards everyone and his general demenor.
Hakkinen was exeptionally good at what he did - beat the living crap outta Schumi and Ferrari. And as that is a fact, and because no one can make any judgement on that, they will look for some other way to defame the Flying Finn.
As we can all see, Schumi still does these things - does anyone remember his jousting with the Williams this year...? He refused to move off when Heidfield(?) had clearly got the better of him, forcing them both out of the race... most under-handed. Again, this is fact. I am not trying to actively destroy MSs reputation, but shoing that he has not, and is not, likely to change.
Well, I wonder wwhat he was thinking when he saw Kimi's lap times in Spain... which pod should he crash into this time...?

(OK, that last part was very harsh, but I guess I just don't like the guy. No offence to anyone.)

Gordon · 11th May 2005, 09:12

Quote:

did u not watch it on tv ?
him crounching, helmet in hand behind a tyre wall in tears

I did watch him. He couldn't believe that a small mistake, slip of a finger, caused him to spin and get out of the race. And on top of that the tifosi was all over him, booing him and cursing him.

2nd May 2005, 16:08	#18
SCARLET Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 219 Thanked: 2 Times	more simple and easy what has JV achieved after winning the title that year and what has MS achieved since then the answer is 7 world titles , should have been 8 if not for the stall at suzuka when he was leading the championship by 1 point and was on pole look at his 7 titles, no one really knows what was running in his head when he turned in , may be he thought he could close the gate and turned in we never know but the saga will continue
	() Thanks

2nd May 2005, 16:55	#19
Abhay BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 727 Thanked: 11 Times	This is not a discussion about his driving skills people. I have already said I admire and respect his ability to drive! Prost and Senna did it but they had a history of it. I dont remember JV turning into MS! I never said these things haven't been done before, I was pointing out that defending Michael for that thing is not on when he himself accepted that he did turn in.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2005, 16:57	#20
papps BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Newcastle, UK Posts: 271 Thanked: 0 Times	JV was unlucky and had a bad car the next year, and he has been pretty unlucky after that too, same thing happened to damon hill after 96, he got a seat only in the arrows in 97, they were unlucky no doubt schumi is a great driver but still thats no excuse for behaving like that on the track is seriously not sportmanlike and shouldnt be acceptable in 94 and 97, they were few other incidents where he was also warned about his behaviour on the track apart from these 2
	() Thanks

2nd May 2005, 20:14	#22
Gordon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,546 Thanked: 483 Times View My Garage	I can't understand why you're calling him a "cry baby" or cursing him for that. I mean so what if he cried in public. Who knows what he cried for?! He must've been in complete pressure, there may have been other things on his mind that were troubling him and the spin must've been enough to crack him. Moreover, when you're in a place like that, there is too much pressure/tension about the yourself, race, the championship, the sponsors, your family and relatives, etc. and it can really get to you. It is very easy to criticize someone, but when put in the same position, one realizes how difficult it is to face the pressure/tension and the criticism from the public. Last edited by Gordon : 2nd May 2005 at 20:15.
	() Thanks

3rd May 2005, 10:13	#23
Abhay BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 727 Thanked: 11 Times	well said Gordon !! for some reason when we are talking about a nasty thing that Schumi did in the past, his fans seem to want to try to ridicule Hakkinen for ....crying !! who cares if he cried or not ? atleast he didn't try to take his rival out
	() Thanks

6th May 2005, 10:49	#25
Abhay BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 727 Thanked: 11 Times	hatari, I did watch it..it was mildly amusing to an extent...but surely it wasnt a bad thing to do like ramming into somebody hehe..just maybe a little embarassing though it did show the very human/emotional side of Mika :-) What I meant was this topic was about the great god Michael's dark side but conveniently MS fans turn their heads away and talk abt something else. Anyways enough of our sparring...its all in a good vein I think
	() Thanks

11th May 2005, 02:16	#26
aveek BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 294 Thanked: 2 Times	Somehow, Ive never liked MS or Ferrari much ever since I got into F-1. There's something bout Schu that is menacing and very hash/bully-like. He will try to puch his weight (and, as discussed, car!!) around, and push (yuk yuk yuk!!!) everyone around. I do not like his stance towards everyone and his general demenor. Hakkinen was exeptionally good at what he did - beat the living crap outta Schumi and Ferrari. And as that is a fact, and because no one can make any judgement on that, they will look for some other way to defame the Flying Finn. As we can all see, Schumi still does these things - does anyone remember his jousting with the Williams this year...? He refused to move off when Heidfield(?) had clearly got the better of him, forcing them both out of the race... most under-handed. Again, this is fact. I am not trying to actively destroy MSs reputation, but shoing that he has not, and is not, likely to change. Well, I wonder wwhat he was thinking when he saw Kimi's lap times in Spain... which pod should he crash into this time...? (OK, that last part was very harsh, but I guess I just don't like the guy. No offence to anyone.)
	() Thanks