BMW takes over Sauber. Is it a wise move?

Minardi · 22nd June 2005, 19:05

As expected...

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33223

M

shravan316 · 22nd June 2005, 19:13

Well, great to hear the news! I'm confident that they'll put up a very good show. And i think Nick will do a good job for the team, if he's hired to do the driving.
Hmmm.. now what about Williams? Should they continue to get engines from BMW or should they look elsewhere?? Cosworth and Honda being their choices.

Revvmaster · 22nd June 2005, 19:28

This is great news. Finally BMW gets charge of everything else besides the engine. Sauber's last year's effort to develop two windtunnels seems to have worked, it really was a pitch for the big one... BMW bought it.

2006 should be exciting then i suppose. Let's give the team until 2007 to find the right footing and performance.

Revv

karthik247 · 22nd June 2005, 19:38

I heard this would happen, but didn't know that it would this soon..

Sid Schumacher · 22nd June 2005, 19:48

Great news, Sauber have finaally got out of the Ferrari shadow and into the BMW shadow....but do you think they will get the same reliability as Ferrari had provided them with??? They will surely get more horses behind them and also more speed under them. I am happy for them...

Deeps · 22nd June 2005, 21:18

Great news for Sauber! All they need to do now is change their driver line-up (read as get rid of Villeneuve). they already have one of the best (if not the best) windtunnels in the business and with BMW onboard, they'll get a great engine as well as more funding. I don't think much should be expected in 2006 but in 2007, they should be up there with the likes of Renaults and Toyotas. Pity for Williams though. Seems like Monty and Ralf abandoned ship at the right time...lol

gr8guzzler · 22nd June 2005, 22:14

Yeah super news...this year the BMW Williams combo was really in a bad shape. Something needed to change and now this....its great for Sauber, but I feel its good for Williams too, you never know, they might shine the Redbull way.....

Anyway, one thing for sure...the excitment for next year is already building up with these changes....

Cheers!!!

shibujp · 22nd June 2005, 23:22

Wow!! the gloves are off....the top two German marques are gonna fight it out.....promises a great season in 2006.

I guess Ferrari has lost a team to supply engines to....and what of Williams?

Knowing BMW the makers of the "ultimate driving machine" they may be going all out to make the "ultimate F1 team"!!

We may have to wait and see what effect this has on the alternate championship mooted by the manufacturers and Bernie's behind the scenes games.

Long live F1...

Drive on,
Shibu.

Rtech · 23rd June 2005, 10:59

While it certainly is great news for Sauber, I just wonder if this is the best move for BMW. It's not easy in F1, everyone knows that, and you can go from being a respected manufacturer to the clown of the class in no time at all if you get things wrong. I'm sure Jaguar would be the first to support that theory!

Yes, BMW have some of the best engineers in the world, and they produce some of the best engines on the grid, but that's when they were concentrating only on engine development. Now, running a whole team is a totally different ball game. To enter F1 in 2006 is no joke!

Toyota can get away with this for a number of reasons. 1) they have huge resources and are pretty much the largest most profitable auto manufacturer in the world. 2) they have nothing to lose. Their brand is not a prestige brand, so if they only manage mid-pack finishes, they still gain the respect of the public. If they win, that's a bonus!

BMW on the other hand have a heritage, both racing as well as street cars, to look after. They mess up in F1 with a couple of years of mid-lower pack performances and things will begin to get very embarrassing for them.

I'm not saying what they've done is wrong, I'm just thinking aloud as to the possible repercussions if they don't perform as they ought too. I'd hate to see them go the Jaguar way.

Harrie · 23rd June 2005, 11:13

Rtech what you said is true. But it could very well be possible that BMW pulls off some one from Williams-BMW along with them to take over at Sauber. IMHO BMW would not go ahead with the decision to start afresh unless they have covered all possible avenues. Lets wait and see what happens. Would sure be interesting.

Another thing we keep forgetting is Sauber itself! Peter Sauber is a damm good engineer. I am sure with the test data he has collected playing second fiddle to Ferrari will sure help BMW a lot. Not only in terms of setting up their machines but also to get an insight into Ferrari's also i guess.

Gordon · 23rd June 2005, 11:20

Why great news for Sauber??! Its going to change to BMW right??
After that there is no Sauber. It'll be only BMW!
I guess there is a new crew too. Sauber will be sold and gone. Peter Sauber will be hand over the team to BMW in 2006.

turbo_lover · 23rd June 2005, 11:56

bad news for Williams next season that all i can say ..williams will surely miss the BMW power ...honda or cosworth none of them showed a good engine this season ...

now we'll have the Ferraris and BMW's next season..

shuvc · 23rd June 2005, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo_lover

now we'll have the Ferraris and BMW's next season..

and mercs ?
and renaults ?
maybe toyota would improve further and catch up too ...

merve_extreme · 23rd June 2005, 13:12

it is not going to help BMW,unless they have stolen some secrets from Renault,mclaren and ferrari.because already the sauber had very powerful ferrari engines and they could achive very less compared to ferrari.it is really disappointing to see manufacturers taking over teams rather than forming new teams.F1 as a sport originated were cars were run by individual owners running customer engines.but today it is all gone and very few car owners are left in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo_lover

bad news for Williams next season that all i can say ..williams will surely miss the BMW power ...honda or cosworth none of them showed a good engine this season ...

williams will still have BMW customer engines.they have a contract upto 2009.

Deeps · 23rd June 2005, 14:12

I highly doubt BMW would go the Jaguar way. I would argue that the biggest reason for Jaguar going bust was the lack of stability in the personnel from the mechanics to the managers. BMW on the other hand have had minimal staff changes since the joined Williams in 2000. Secondly, unlike Toyota BMW are not starting from scratch. They have their own engine department already and will be taking over the resources that Sauber currently own. Peter Sauber has regularly said that there isn't enough funding to even run a third driver on fridays so obviously the lack of funding is also largely responsible for their lack of performance. But with BMW pumping in $$$, having the state-of-the-art windtunnel as well as continuing to manufacture competetive engines there is no reason why the team can't be fighting amongst the big boys from 2007.

22nd June 2005, 19:05	#1
Minardi BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 413 Thanked: 15 Times	BMW takes over Sauber. Is it a wise move? As expected... http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33223 M
	() Thanks

22nd June 2005, 19:13	#2
shravan316 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,029 Thanked: 9 Times	Well, great to hear the news! I'm confident that they'll put up a very good show. And i think Nick will do a good job for the team, if he's hired to do the driving. Hmmm.. now what about Williams? Should they continue to get engines from BMW or should they look elsewhere?? Cosworth and Honda being their choices.
	() Thanks

22nd June 2005, 19:28	#3
Revvmaster Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,190 Thanked: 95 Times	This is great news. Finally BMW gets charge of everything else besides the engine. Sauber's last year's effort to develop two windtunnels seems to have worked, it really was a pitch for the big one... BMW bought it. 2006 should be exciting then i suppose. Let's give the team until 2007 to find the right footing and performance. Revv
	() Thanks

22nd June 2005, 19:38	#4
karthik247 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR, HYD Posts: 2,710 Thanked: 30 Times	I heard this would happen, but didn't know that it would this soon..
	() Thanks

22nd June 2005, 19:48	#5
Sid Schumacher BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 262 Thanked: 3 Times	Great news, Sauber have finaally got out of the Ferrari shadow and into the BMW shadow....but do you think they will get the same reliability as Ferrari had provided them with??? They will surely get more horses behind them and also more speed under them. I am happy for them...
	() Thanks

22nd June 2005, 21:18	#6
Deeps Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Delhi/Noida Posts: 1,116 Thanked: 170 Times	Great news for Sauber! All they need to do now is change their driver line-up (read as get rid of Villeneuve). they already have one of the best (if not the best) windtunnels in the business and with BMW onboard, they'll get a great engine as well as more funding. I don't think much should be expected in 2006 but in 2007, they should be up there with the likes of Renaults and Toyotas. Pity for Williams though. Seems like Monty and Ralf abandoned ship at the right time...lol
	() Thanks

22nd June 2005, 22:14	#7
gr8guzzler BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 653 Thanked: 87 Times View My Garage	Yeah super news...this year the BMW Williams combo was really in a bad shape. Something needed to change and now this....its great for Sauber, but I feel its good for Williams too, you never know, they might shine the Redbull way..... Anyway, one thing for sure...the excitment for next year is already building up with these changes.... Cheers!!!
	() Thanks

22nd June 2005, 23:22	#8
shibujp Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 1,753 Thanked: 3,225 Times View My Garage	Wow!! the gloves are off....the top two German marques are gonna fight it out.....promises a great season in 2006. I guess Ferrari has lost a team to supply engines to....and what of Williams? Knowing BMW the makers of the "ultimate driving machine" they may be going all out to make the "ultimate F1 team"!! We may have to wait and see what effect this has on the alternate championship mooted by the manufacturers and Bernie's behind the scenes games. Long live F1... Drive on, Shibu.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2005, 10:59	#9
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	While it certainly is great news for Sauber, I just wonder if this is the best move for BMW. It's not easy in F1, everyone knows that, and you can go from being a respected manufacturer to the clown of the class in no time at all if you get things wrong. I'm sure Jaguar would be the first to support that theory! Yes, BMW have some of the best engineers in the world, and they produce some of the best engines on the grid, but that's when they were concentrating only on engine development. Now, running a whole team is a totally different ball game. To enter F1 in 2006 is no joke! Toyota can get away with this for a number of reasons. 1) they have huge resources and are pretty much the largest most profitable auto manufacturer in the world. 2) they have nothing to lose. Their brand is not a prestige brand, so if they only manage mid-pack finishes, they still gain the respect of the public. If they win, that's a bonus! BMW on the other hand have a heritage, both racing as well as street cars, to look after. They mess up in F1 with a couple of years of mid-lower pack performances and things will begin to get very embarrassing for them. I'm not saying what they've done is wrong, I'm just thinking aloud as to the possible repercussions if they don't perform as they ought too. I'd hate to see them go the Jaguar way.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2005, 11:13	#10
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	Rtech what you said is true. But it could very well be possible that BMW pulls off some one from Williams-BMW along with them to take over at Sauber. IMHO BMW would not go ahead with the decision to start afresh unless they have covered all possible avenues. Lets wait and see what happens. Would sure be interesting. Another thing we keep forgetting is Sauber itself! Peter Sauber is a damm good engineer. I am sure with the test data he has collected playing second fiddle to Ferrari will sure help BMW a lot. Not only in terms of setting up their machines but also to get an insight into Ferrari's also i guess.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2005, 11:20	#11
Gordon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,546 Thanked: 483 Times View My Garage	Why great news for Sauber??! Its going to change to BMW right?? After that there is no Sauber. It'll be only BMW! I guess there is a new crew too. Sauber will be sold and gone. Peter Sauber will be hand over the team to BMW in 2006.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2005, 11:56	#12
turbo_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,377 Thanked: 9 Times	bad news for Williams next season that all i can say ..williams will surely miss the BMW power ...honda or cosworth none of them showed a good engine this season ... now we'll have the Ferraris and BMW's next season..
	() Thanks

23rd June 2005, 14:12	#15
Deeps Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Delhi/Noida Posts: 1,116 Thanked: 170 Times	I highly doubt BMW would go the Jaguar way. I would argue that the biggest reason for Jaguar going bust was the lack of stability in the personnel from the mechanics to the managers. BMW on the other hand have had minimal staff changes since the joined Williams in 2000. Secondly, unlike Toyota BMW are not starting from scratch. They have their own engine department already and will be taking over the resources that Sauber currently own. Peter Sauber has regularly said that there isn't enough funding to even run a third driver on fridays so obviously the lack of funding is also largely responsible for their lack of performance. But with BMW pumping in $$$, having the state-of-the-art windtunnel as well as continuing to manufacture competetive engines there is no reason why the team can't be fighting amongst the big boys from 2007.
	() Thanks