Alonso's Singapore GP win being investigated. EDIT: Renault is guilty!

14000rpm · 17th September 2009, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubby

Holy cow. Race fixing and out of all of them its being done by Flavio himself, one of the most respected names in motorsport history.

Damn... Its was this accident which indirectly caused Massa the race.

Whilst, Massa lost the WDC by a single point in 2008.

WHAT!! now is this what was left to see in F1? it happened in cricket and now this .. didn't expect such moves by Flavio of all the lot. he belongs to the old school of F1 players and should've been a lil more sane while gaining the respect. now my respect for Frank Williams increases.
there is a whole lot of drama set to unfurl in the near future coz of crashgate.
I hope the FIA just fines them the way they did to McLaren and move on and not go and change last years WDC titles.

I just read all the links referring to crashgate. gosh, this is cold blooded. Spygate affected only ferrari and mclaren. but this affected the entire pack of genuine racers. I'm guessing Renault may get banned. If not , the penalties are going to be massive enough for renault to consider quitting F1.

SilentEngine · 17th September 2009, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubby

Damn... Its was this accident which indirectly caused Massa the race.

Whilst, Massa lost the WDC by a single point in 2008.

Yes and No, He lost out because of the timing of safety car, but the Ferrari pit 'light' system is what caused the problem from Massa, without that, he could have got into points if not winning it.

But irrespective of the outcome, i agree that this is more serious than the spygate. FIA may still keep the charges similar to the spygate scandal, but other teams may protest (outside the WMSC on criminal grounds) and force Renault out of F1.

sgiitk · 17th September 2009, 09:46

The whole thing smells of a fix. Fire the guy(s), plead no contest, and get off with the proverbial rap on the knuckles.

pypkmsrikanth · 17th September 2009, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

WHAT!! now is this what was left to see in F1? it happened in cricket and now this .. didn't expect such moves by Flavio of all the lot. he belongs to the old school of F1 players and should've been a lil more sane while gaining the respect.

It was Flavio and Tom Walkinshaw who were responsible for the Fuel Filter fiasco with Benetton in the '90's which had about 6 mechanics and Jos Verstappen injured in a fire accident while re-fuelling.

Though not officially investiaged and accepted it was always suspected by many that the Benettons at times ran Traction Control which was banned then.

Here is my earlier reply on this has links to couple of articles which would show what Benetton were upto and not to forget the fix which Max did to save Benetton and am sure something similar has been done in this case as well with Renault letting Flavio and Pat Symonds and choosing not to contest the charges.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/int-l-...ml#post1471410

GTO · 17th September 2009, 11:26

We'd have to be really naive to think that Alonso wasn't aware of this fixing. I mean, he is the no.1 driver at Renault and really close to Flavio. Wouldn't he have asked the reason behind his short first stint of only 12 laps?

Flavio ought to be ashamed of what he did, alongwith Symonds. This is a team that won two champions with Alonso only 3 - 4 years back! A great team stooping so low? Cheap, really cheap.

McLaren Rulez · 17th September 2009, 11:49

Mods, it is too early to edit the title to say Renault are guilty. For all we know, the WMSC might find Renault, as a team, not guilty of anything while Briatore and Symonds and maybe Piquet are punished for the race fixing.

'Flav could lose more than just his F1 career' - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com

And as for Massa being WDC, that's nonsense. You can't predict how things would have changed if Massa had finished better in the Singapore GP. Certainly, Hamilton would be gunning for the win in Brazil and not just tryinng to get fifth. The mindsets of both contenders would have completely changed if the result was different.

gpa · 17th September 2009, 12:19

Just read the link posted by McLaren Rulez and it is right for the Queens Park Rangers to throw out Flavio. I never imagined that a person of such repute could even possibly stoop so low.

I wonder what Schumi has to say on the whole incident, considering that it was Briatore who launched his F1 career with the then Benetton team!

im_srini · 17th September 2009, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpa

I wonder what Schumi has to say on the whole incident, considering that it was Briatore who launched his F1 career with the then Benetton team!

Actually, that honor goes to Eddie Jordan of the then Jordan-Ford team, & indirectly Mercedes. Sad as this incident is, let's not rush to judge Flavio or Symonds.

The details regarding the incident being leaked & the ensuing public furor can only hurt F1 more, & its to be said 2009 has not been very kind to the sport. Renault F1's future was already shaky, if they too quit, we're looking at a lackluster grid next year. FOTA's position would also weaken significantly...

motor spirit · 17th September 2009, 12:57

There is an other interesting point made by some gentleman saying that Nowadays F1 Race results are decided before the race .this looks so true. Briatore has played with the passions of million f1 Fans .
IMO These days F1 is filled with controversies resulting in Fans loosing the faith in the sport .
Men Like Bernie thinks of only money. for that he goes to an extent of removing venues from the F1 calenders . otherside Max Mosley is so controvesial that he's lost all support n ready to leave
Poor Renault facing the wrath of the world because of few bad men . I Hope Alonso also gets convicted in this saga, as he's trying to play safe & smart inspite of being the winner of the damn race & above all renault's No-1 driver

McLaren Rulez · 17th September 2009, 13:05

Well I doubt if this is hurting F1 at all. The twists and turns of this scandal make it almost like a soap opera. Its good entertainment though I will admit F1's image as a sport is taking a hit. What was it they say about all publicity being good?

Abbas · 17th September 2009, 13:19

Strategies are common in F1. You have pit stop strategy, you play with fuel loads, you play with tyre selection etc, But a crash strategy to make another driver win, This is completely unethical man. What a shame, they should be banned from racing in F1.

motor spirit · 17th September 2009, 13:33

Righty said abbas , along with the fair game startegies, its surprising to hear these strategies too.
Hold a map & tel Piquet to crash at a specific turn & lap . Alonso sinks to the pit perfectly . Safety car comes out . other winning contenders come in to the pit & get penalized . Alonso leads n wins .This is very well calculated strategy by symonds . Im sure F1 fans will remember this winning strategy for some time to come

SilentEngine · 17th September 2009, 13:35

There is already talks of banning refueling from next (or is it 2011?) season. That should definitely help.
It's all good to have the exciting pit strategies with different fuel loads, but i think banning refueling is a good step forward. It removes the possibility of safety car deployment deciding the race outcome. May be they should ban pit stops all together (but then the races would be boring)

Liverpool_Red · 17th September 2009, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbas

Strategies are common in F1. You have pit stop strategy, you play with fuel loads, you play with tyre selection etc, But a crash strategy to make another driver win, This is completely unethical man. What a shame, they should be banned from racing in F1.

The F1 sport needs a major cleanup like what happened in Italian Soccer league. This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the shady business in F1. I think someone will spill the beans on Timo Glock's last lap debacle in last year's Brazilian GP which gave the F1 title to Hamilton from Massa.

pypkmsrikanth · 17th September 2009, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

There is already talks of banning refueling from next (or is it 2011?) season. That should definitely help.
It's all good to have the exciting pit strategies with different fuel loads, but i think banning refueling is a good step forward. It removes the possibility of safety car deployment deciding the race outcome. May be they should ban pit stops all together (but then the races would be boring)

I don't think the races would be boring because the driver's would not have the Plan B of jumping places during pitstops. There is only a Plan A which would mean a overtake to gain places.

Don't forget that it becomes important for the driver and the team to plan their race carefully, do the play the hare game of charging with heavy fuel load, destroy the tyres opt for an additional tyre stop or play the tortoise game of nursing your tyres through the early stages of the race with heavy fuel load and opt for lesser tyre stops.

Am sure it would make racing atleast 100 times exciting than what currently it is

17th September 2009, 09:46	#63
sgiitk BANNED Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,969 Thanked: 4,788 Times	The whole thing smells of a fix. Fire the guy(s), plead no contest, and get off with the proverbial rap on the knuckles.
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 11:26	#65
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,497 Thanked: 300,308 Times View My Garage	We'd have to be really naive to think that Alonso wasn't aware of this fixing. I mean, he is the no.1 driver at Renault and really close to Flavio. Wouldn't he have asked the reason behind his short first stint of only 12 laps? Flavio ought to be ashamed of what he did, alongwith Symonds. This is a team that won two champions with Alonso only 3 - 4 years back! A great team stooping so low? Cheap, really cheap.
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 11:49	#66
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,387 Thanked: 5,096 Times	Mods, it is too early to edit the title to say Renault are guilty. For all we know, the WMSC might find Renault, as a team, not guilty of anything while Briatore and Symonds and maybe Piquet are punished for the race fixing. 'Flav could lose more than just his F1 career' - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com And as for Massa being WDC, that's nonsense. You can't predict how things would have changed if Massa had finished better in the Singapore GP. Certainly, Hamilton would be gunning for the win in Brazil and not just tryinng to get fifth. The mindsets of both contenders would have completely changed if the result was different. Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 17th September 2009 at 12:01.
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 12:19	#67
gpa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,789 Thanked: 340 Times	Just read the link posted by McLaren Rulez and it is right for the Queens Park Rangers to throw out Flavio. I never imagined that a person of such repute could even possibly stoop so low. I wonder what Schumi has to say on the whole incident, considering that it was Briatore who launched his F1 career with the then Benetton team!
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 12:57	#69
motor spirit BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: bangalore Posts: 236 Thanked: 112 Times	There is an other interesting point made by some gentleman saying that Nowadays F1 Race results are decided before the race .this looks so true. Briatore has played with the passions of million f1 Fans . IMO These days F1 is filled with controversies resulting in Fans loosing the faith in the sport . Men Like Bernie thinks of only money. for that he goes to an extent of removing venues from the F1 calenders . otherside Max Mosley is so controvesial that he's lost all support n ready to leave Poor Renault facing the wrath of the world because of few bad men . I Hope Alonso also gets convicted in this saga, as he's trying to play safe & smart inspite of being the winner of the damn race & above all renault's No-1 driver
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 13:05	#70
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,387 Thanked: 5,096 Times	Well I doubt if this is hurting F1 at all. The twists and turns of this scandal make it almost like a soap opera. Its good entertainment though I will admit F1's image as a sport is taking a hit. What was it they say about all publicity being good?
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 13:19	#71
Abbas BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Visakhapatnam Posts: 465 Thanked: 544 Times View My Garage	Strategies are common in F1. You have pit stop strategy, you play with fuel loads, you play with tyre selection etc, But a crash strategy to make another driver win, This is completely unethical man. What a shame, they should be banned from racing in F1.
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 13:33	#72
motor spirit BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: bangalore Posts: 236 Thanked: 112 Times	Righty said abbas , along with the fair game startegies, its surprising to hear these strategies too. Hold a map & tel Piquet to crash at a specific turn & lap . Alonso sinks to the pit perfectly . Safety car comes out . other winning contenders come in to the pit & get penalized . Alonso leads n wins .This is very well calculated strategy by symonds . Im sure F1 fans will remember this winning strategy for some time to come
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 13:35	#73
SilentEngine Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: KA19,KA04 Posts: 1,167 Thanked: 735 Times View My Garage	There is already talks of banning refueling from next (or is it 2011?) season. That should definitely help. It's all good to have the exciting pit strategies with different fuel loads, but i think banning refueling is a good step forward. It removes the possibility of safety car deployment deciding the race outcome. May be they should ban pit stops all together (but then the races would be boring)
	() Thanks