[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by amalji

Just completed the 30,000 service of my Toyota Etios

Congrats Sir, for this milestone.

Originally Posted by amalji

• Another highlight was that I got confirmation from Toyota about the fuel filters used in Etios Diesel. They confirmed that Etios Diesel is equipped with Denso's lifetime fuel filter which doesn't need replacements ( like in Innova and unlike in Corolla ).Toyota confirmed that they use a filter similar to the one used in the Innova. In most cases, they will last the lifetime of the vehicle.

I also got our Corolla Altis diesel serviced past weekend Amalji Sir. I also confirmed about the Denso long life Fuel Filter in Etios and Liva Diesels. The SA confirmed what you have mentioned here. The Corolla Altis Fuel Filter needs replacement every 20,000 kms (costs about Rs. 1900) whereas the Etios Fuel Filter doesn't need any replacement at all.

With this, I think we can comfortably declare Etios Liva and Etios to be the cheapest diesel cars to maintain in their respective category. What do you say.

Our service bill was Rs 2000 only (another Rs 250 for alignment etc. which was done outside at a center of a friend. Toyota people charge Rs. 474 for Altis Wheel Alignment and other related jobs). I will be starting an ownership review of Altis Diesel soon.

Originally Posted by amalji

• Saw the service record of an Etios owner, who has completed 1,50,000 kms within 1.5 years. No fuel filter replacements or timing chain replacements on his car till now. Brake pads were replaced only once at 80,000 kms. That was really confidence inspiring.

Really thats great Sir. I was a bit apprehensive till now about the longevity of this diesel engine. Actually, I was confused between Fluence and Altis when we were shopping for a D segment car. Strong point of Fluence then was the K9K diesel whose reliability is proven beyond doubt due to countless Logan Diesels doing duty as taxis in many cities of India. We opted for Corolla Altis due to well proven record of providing good service by our local Toyota dealer. However, your observation has laid to rest all apprehensions that I had.

Originally Posted by amalji

Toyota mentioned that the Etios timing chain doesn't have to be changed at all. I asked how can you be so sure. The service advisor mentioned that they use the same technology on older Corollas, and from 2000 onwards, no Corolla ever had to change the timing chain. I'm not 100% sure about this. Anyway, the Toyota manual doesn't ask us to change the timing belt/chain

Sir, Timing chains are lifetime for all engines that use them. Even FIAT Multijet doesn't require any timing chain replacement. Currently almost all petrol and diesel engines come with life long Timing chain with exception of following:

1. VW TDI,
2. Renault K9K,
3. Ford 1.4 TDCi (Not the 1.5 TDCi in new Fiesta - it comes with timing chain),
4. Toyota KD-TV series (Innova and Fortuner engines)
5. some Tata Engines.

These engines come with timing belt which needs to be periodically inspected and replaced.


P.S. Also sir, thanks for the excellent comparative report regarding maintenance schedule and associated costs for Figo, Etios and Swift. I am requesting Mods to move those posts of yours into an independent thread where it will be more visible to other people. Other members can also contribute with maintenance details of their cars.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

With this, I think we can comfortably declare Etios Liva and Etios to be the cheapest diesel cars to maintain in their respective category. What do you say.

Without doubt, yes. Several factors lead to that

• Life time fuel filter
• Life time timing chain
• Life time Transmission Oil
• Life time Clutch Fluid
• 1,50,000 kms replacement interval coolant
• 40,000 replacement interval air filter
• Mineral oil by default ( Toyota doesn't force synthetic oil on its customers )
• The Toyota exclusive SMILES pack option
• Fast and efficient work force ( 2 hour express service )
• Long life piezo electric injectors ( vs Solenoid ones )

People talk about cost cutting in Etios. But, the fact is that Toyota intelligently allocated the costs and research man hours to the most critical parts of the car while compromising on petty stuffs like looks of Plastics and seats.
It's just that we - Indian consumers are not mature enough to realize that. Anyway, they are making some changes with aesthetics on the 2013 Etios. If they market it properly, the Etios should slowly, but surely capture the Indian market ( like the Qualis )

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Our service bill was Rs 2000 only (another Rs 250 for alignment etc. which was done outside at a center of a friend. Toyota people charge Rs. 474 for Altis Wheel Alignment and other related jobs). I will be starting an ownership review of Altis Diesel soon.

I would recommend that you opt for the SMILES pack from 20,000 service on. Saves atleast 15% of your service cost.

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Sir, Timing chains are lifetime for all engines that use them. Even FIAT Multijet doesn't require any timing chain replacement.

I have seen Verna CRDi timing chains being replaced before 1 lakh kms. And it used to cost upwards of 20,000 INR for replacement of timing chain and related parts on a Verna CRDi

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

P.S. Also sir, thanks for the excellent comparative report regarding maintenance schedule and associated costs for Figo, Etios and Swift. I am requesting Mods to move those posts of yours into an independent thread where it will be more visible to other people. Other members can also contribute with maintenance details of their cars.

That's a very good suggestion. I'll make minor corrections to details like Fuel filter on the Etios which is life time ( rather than 80,000 kms )

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Sir, Timing chains are lifetime for all engines that use them. Even FIAT Multijet doesn't require any timing chain replacement.

Originally Posted by amalji

I have seen Verna CRDi timing chains being replaced before 1 lakh kms. And it used to cost upwards of 20,000 INR for replacement of timing chain and related parts on a Verna CRDi

Just got confirmation from a friend working in Hyundai service that i20 timing chain replacement interval is 80,000 kms and that timing chain + associated parts replacement for i20 costs around Rs. 25,000/-

[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by amalji

Just got confirmation from a friend working in Hyundai service that i20 timing chain replacement interval is 80,000 kms and that timing chain + associated parts replacement for i20 costs around Rs. 25,000/-

Yes sir, its correct in case of Hyundais. However, in case of MJDs (or even my petrol I-VTEC having timing chain) there are no timing chain replacement as such. For e.g. you may see the really long term reviews of Swift Diesel or Fiat Punto by @epicenter.rulez sir. AFAIK in his more than 1.5 lakh kms running for both cars, he has not gone for any TC replacements.

Even in my case, the service centre people as well as manual confirms that there is no need for timing chain replacements.

So I think Hyundais requiring TC replacements might be a result of relatively poor design of TC and associated components due to cost or other reasons.

Anyways, we must enjoy the superior experience of owning a Toyota together with its simple but robust engineering

[amalji]

Originally Posted by navan49

Seems you are right Amalji. Just I read an article in Cardekho and found that they are going to Launch on 7th March.
Our friends at Garheads caught the Etios Facelift and shot a close video of the same, further assuring the launch.

I have tried out the new face lift edition and is impressed with it. I have done reviews of the interiors and NVH.

Please check the below links.

Review of the 2013 facelift edition of Etios/Liva

NVH Comparison @ idle - old and new model - Video review

NVH Comparison while driving - video review

When I first wrote the review in December 2011, this was my wish list.

Originally Posted by amalji

My Wish List for etios - 2012

1) Arm rest for the rear seat
2) Change in interior colour combinations.
3) 6-speed gearbox for the Diesel variant like in Corolla Diesel
4) Since, the Etios Petrol torque is one class higher than the competition, I would recommend Toyota to use that advantage and make the gears more tall ( especially the 5th gear ). That would reduce NVH at high speeds by providing a relaxed engine speed at very high speeds. It should also increase mileage marginally.
5) Better fabric quality for the seats ( While this is not a useful thing as everyone uses seat covers, it stills dents the confidence of the customer and leaves a bad impression about the car, the first time, they see the vehicle in the showroom. An Etios with seat cover looks much better than the one without one )
6) Better looking odometer/speedometer ( in the day-time ). For night, the current odo looks good enough.
7) Height adjustment option for front seats and seatbelts.
8) More angle for steering tilt.
9) Better NVH control.
10) Add auto-lock and auto-unlock feature to the central locks
11) Change the colour of red in top-end model of Etios to something more attractive. One of the main reasons I let go off the top-end was the colour combination used. But, I do miss the sporty steering wheel of the top end.
12) Provide a better audio/video headunit with atleast the top-end model of Etios. Very relevant with the top-end model since, the advantage of having the steering mounted audio control is worthy only if you have a player which you do not have reasons to upgrade 1 or 2 years after buying the car ( Missing bluetooth/IPOD connectivity, USB access seems to be slow, bad looks - doesn't blend with interiors, lower rms output, missing fine audio adjustment options ) are the negatives that I noticed on the headunit of the top-end variant of the Etios.
13) Provide eORVM and front arm rests as optional accessories or equip the top-end variant with EORVMs
14) If the above changes increase the cost and price, Toyota can very well afford to get it under control by stripping of needless features like Side and Front skirtings. They can very well chose to give the skirtings as optional accessories instead.
15) If Toyota can make the clutch a bit more lighter without compromising on the quality and durability aspects of clutch, I would prefer the Etios Diesel to have a lighter clutch as well.
PS: The Etios Petrol is equipped with one of the lightest Clutch.
16) Last, but not the least, don't do anything with the suspensions, wheelbase and brakes because it's simply the best.

And here is the status of the wish list as of today.

1 --> Fixed by providing rear arm rests as an accessory
2 --> Beige / Brown / Wooden finish is a welcome change. Aesthetics has improved a lot because of that
3 --> Not Done
4 --> Not Done
5 --> Done. The new Etios fabric colour is a huge improvement
6 --> Done. New odo design is in place even though there is still scope for improvement here.
7 --> Partially done. Height adjust for seat belts still not done.
8 --> Not Done
9 --> Done. The new Etios' NVH improvement is remarkable.
10 --> Not Done is what I believe
11 --> Done. Red and black colour combination is no more.
12 --> Done. Better head unit comes in with bluetooth support.
13 --> Not Done. But, instead came with the ORVM with indicators.
14 --> NA, since they increased the cost
15 --> Not Done. But, maybe, they know what is best for a durable clutch design
16 --> Even though I mentioned not to change anything with suspensions, I had missed out the thud sound bug during my initial days. That's now fixed by Toyota.

[automachine]

Thanks for comprehensive update Amalji. My Etios too is due for 30K service and your inputs would help me there. I would be going for suspension change as well. I am interested to know if Toyota offers NVH related upgrades for previous Etios. Do you know if the hydraulic mount is available for both diesel and petrol?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by automachine

I would be going for suspension change as well.

Good. You should enjoy the new suspensions.

Originally Posted by automachine

I am interested to know if Toyota offers NVH related upgrades for previous Etios.

I'll be attending a session by Nippon Toyota, Cochin on Saturday. Hope to ask the same question to them that day. Will keep you updated for sure.

Originally Posted by automachine

Do you know if the hydraulic mount is available for both diesel and petrol?

The sales rep told me that he has seen the liva Petrol on idle and that the NVH has come down a lot. Not sure, if they have used hydraulic mount there as well. Anyway, will check it out, when I visit them on Saturday evening. Will keep you updated.

[powertrain]

Originally Posted by amalji

I'll be attending a session by Nippon Toyota, Cochin on Saturday. Hope to ask the same question to them that day. Will keep you updated for sure.

Hello amalji,
Any updates regarding the NVH & hydraulic mounts package? Do let us know at the earliest.

Regards,
Varun Nair

[amalji]

Originally Posted by powertrain

Hello amalji,
Any updates regarding the NVH & hydraulic mounts package? Do let us know at the earliest.

Regards,
Varun Nair

Check out
post 111 &
post 121 of the
Toyota Etios facelift thread

[SSD2122]

@amalji - congratulations on a very comprehensive review on etios (D). Quite in detail and perfect for prospective buyers like me. . I was contemplating whether I go for etios (P) or (D) top end variants. Given that the torque band is in mid-range and suited for city driving, can you share your experience on how the engine responds for a full load and luggage with A/C on. Does it need frequent downshifting as such while doing ghat sections etc..Does it run out of breath pretty quickly on highways.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by SSD2122

@amalji - congratulations on a very comprehensive review on etios (D). Quite in detail and perfect for prospective buyers like me. .

Glad to be of help.

Originally Posted by SSD2122

I was contemplating whether I go for etios (P) or (D) top end variants.

The Etios Petrol is one of the most fun to drive sedans out there. My heart asked me to go for it. Practicality forced me into diesel.

Originally Posted by SSD2122

Given that the torque band is in mid-range and suited for city driving, can you share your experience on how the engine responds for a full load and luggage with A/C on. Does it need frequent downshifting as such while doing ghat sections etc..Does it run out of breath pretty quickly on highways.

The main difference with the Diesel engine is that big 170 Nm of torque from 1800 rpm all the way till 2400 rpm. So, if you are someone who shifts early ( below 2,500 rpms ), you will find the diesel more peppy ( till around 130 kmph ).
Post 140 kmph, Diesel torque advantage is lost even if you shift early, because by then the engine is at 3,000 rpms while the Petrol pulls without too much of hardwork till 160-170

Now, suppose you don't mind revving the engine to 4,000 rpms, then the Petrol is fun to drive any day compared to the diesel. The Etios Petrol is more to fun to drive than any other sedan in that price range and in some cases even from one class above.

Tips for driving Etios Diesel
Under normal circumstances, try to keep it between 1500 to 2500 rpms.
If you are on a rush, keep it between 1800 and 3000 rpms.

Ghat section driving - Diesel

Keep it in the torque band and it pulls effortlessly on ghats section even with load and AC on. Gear changes will be more frequent on a Diesel than Petrol for 2 reasons.

• The taller gear ratios of the Diesel ( The Etios Petrol has very short gear ratios )
• Narrower power band. On a diesel, you have to drive between 1500 to 3000 rpms. On a Petrol, the range is between 1000 to 4500. ( Even though the fun is unmatched in the practical rpm ranges of 1800 to 2400 on a Diesel where the 170 Nm torque kicks in )

On the Petrol, you can drive on a lower gear and use like an automatic. But, you will be burning more fuel that way.

Highway Driving - Diesel

The tall gearing is a blessing here.

At 120 kmph, the Etios Diesel is still on its peak torque on 5th gear thanks to that tall gearing and flat torque curve from 1800 till 2400.
Overtaking is a breeze thanks to that 170Nm torque.

Feel free to shoot in any questions that you have. Only glad to answer.

Another factor that you might want to consider is the make of the engine. The initial batch of Petrol Etios used to have Japanese Engines and transmission. Now, they are manufactured in India.
For the Diesels, the engine and transmission still continues to be manufactured from Japan.

And unlike in the case of other manufacturers, the Diesel maintenance cost is not much higher than Petrol. Just expect around 2,000 to 3,000 service bills every 10,000 kms. Thanks largely due to the Denso lifetime fuel filters used on the Etios Diesel ( lasts around 1.5 Lakh kms, while in other cars like the Swift Diesel, you replace it every 20,000 kms ).

And yeah, with AC on, diesel doesn't take much impact because the torque at hand is more. Even with the Petrol, 132 Nm of torque is not bad at all. You just need to delay the gear shifts a tad bit to compromise on the torque loss.

[SSD2122]

Good to have experienced folks like you with etios diesel and fast&furious with etios petrol. I get to understand the pros & cons very well since both of you are giving details on every point. I had TD'ed the etios (D) however did not really go into details as I wanted to check out the petrol. BTW I liked the newly introduced classic grey colour. Now will TD both once again. It seems whether petrol or diesel, I already have a winner in my hand.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by SSD2122

Good to have experienced folks like you with etios diesel and fast&furious with etios petrol. I get to understand the pros & cons very well since both of you are giving details on every point. I had TD'ed the etios (D) however did not really go into details as I wanted to check out the petrol. BTW I liked the newly introduced classic grey colour. Now will TD both once again. It seems whether petrol or diesel, I already have a winner in my hand.

You might also want to check out Honda amaze. The diesel will be released on April 10th.

Engine spec says 100 PS, 200 nm torque, 25.8 kmpl arai mileage, 1500 CC with almost zero turbo lag. It's not as spacious as the Etios. But much better than the dzire in terms of space management.

[SSD2122]

Yes, just read the awesome review by GTO. Sure is an "amazing" sedan and it does seem to be better than current competitors in diesel. In petrol, nothing seems to beat the etios (P) though. Torque/Weight ratio is way superior. Etios has more width, boot space and ground clearance.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by SSD2122

Yes, just read the awesome review by GTO. Sure is an "amazing" sedan and it does seem to be better than current competitors in diesel. In petrol, nothing seems to beat the etios (P) though. Torque/Weight ratio is way superior. Etios has more width, boot space and ground clearance.

You are spot on with your analysis. And the maintenance cost should be cheaper on the Toyota.

I'm so eager to test drive the amaze diesel.