[raghuvir]

Originally Posted by SMARTF

Hi Amalji,

Can you suggest anything to reduce NVH ?

I have upgraded to 15" alloy ...........Bridgestone B290 tyers.

I have changed the tyres on my etios recently. Check this out.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-thread-3.html

[amalji]

4 years and 86,000 kms of hassle free experience. Thank you Toyota.

If I make a report card of the vehicle till now, this is how it'll look like.

[Sawyer]

A question: when Toyota does not push synthetic oil, and considering the price difference, what do you see as the value obtained from using synthetic?

In general I have concluded that if regular oil/filter changes are done, there isn't any and I have been pleasantly surprised by no hard selling of synthetic at the Toyota service station. In fact my SA was honest enough to say that regular is perfectly adequate.

Toyotas in the taxi trade run high kilometres, and I am sure they use regular.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

A question: when Toyota does not push synthetic oil, and considering the price difference, what do you see as the value obtained from using synthetic?

In general I have concluded that if regular oil/filter changes are done, there isn't any and I have been pleasantly surprised by no hard selling of synthetic at the Toyota service station. In fact my SA was honest enough to say that regular is perfectly adequate.

Toyotas in the taxi trade run high kilometres, and I am sure they use regular.

Any Toyota Diesels can do 4 lakhs plus kms easily with the stock Toyota Mineral Oil. Now, the reason why I use synthetic is because I care for the finer details.

If you ask me, if it's value for money for such a reliable engine, the answer will be a No.
If the question is whether the synthetic oil protects the engine better and will make it stay like new for longer, it's a big yes. These are the reasons why i use a synthetic oil.

1. Better protection at cold start

0w40 instead of 15w40 ( Toyota mineral oil spec ) means that the viscosity will be much lesser than the mineral oil at cold start. This helps higher flow rate and helps the engine get rinsed with oil faster. This is very important if you have very frequent short trips. ( like the 8 km distance I cover on a daily basis from/to office )

2. Better protection at colder climate

The colder the climate, the thicker the oil will be. So, the damage to the engine during winters will be minimal due to the higher flow rate of the synthetics. Since, I've been staying in Bangalore for the last 1 year, this becomes an important point.

3. How long am I planning to use the car?

The reason why I bought a Toyota is its QDR ( Quality, Durability & Reliability ). And I plan to make best use of it by keeping the vehicle for 15 years. With the current usage, if I use it for that long, I'll cover around 3 - 4 lakhs kms. And I would want my engine to take as little damage as possible and remain like new even during the later part of my usage. Hence, a synthetic oil makes sense.

4. Smoother revving.

Due to its lower friction, the engine feels more rev friendly. There's no point revving a turbo charged Diesel engine with FGT, but even revving till 3000 rpms is different with a synthetic oil compared to a mineral oil.

5. Slightly higher power and mileage

This is not something I have compared values and proved. But, it's common logic that with lesser friction, there will be a slightly higher power and slightly higher mileage for the same fuel used.

6. The better cleansing properties of the additives used in synthetic oil

Even though, the above all are advantages of synthetic over mineral oil, the most important factors for me are 1,2,3 & 4. And that's what prompted me to use the synthetic oil instead of mineral oil.

PS: I've been trying out synthetic oil even in my old Esteem ( Mobil 1 ). And I was very happy with the performance. Cold start always used to take a bit of delay on this old engine. But, with the synthetic, it used to start instantly.

[vigsom]

Excellent compilation Amalji.

It is nice to see zero work on the suspension but strange to see brake pads replaced so quickly

[amalji]

Originally Posted by vigsom

Excellent compilation Amalji.

It is nice to see zero work on the suspension but strange to see brake pads replaced so quickly

Every road has an ideal average speed where braking requirements are very less. Higher the speed compared to this ideal speed of a road, higher the need to use the brakes. In my case, I used to replace my brake pads every 15,000 kms on my old esteem. This is due to a combination of this higher speed driving and the free revving engine with negligible engine braking on the esteem. On the etios, with this kind of a driving style, I find the 30000 kms brake pads replacement interval pretty good. For example, these are the replacement intervals of people whom I know owns an etios and has completed aleast 40000 kms

1. Srinivasa Shetty ( team-bhp id - kavensri ) - never replaced - odo at 58,000 kms
2. Sengupta Samba ( team-bhp id - ) - replaced proactively at 34,000 kms before his Ladakh trip. It was good for another 6,000 kms easily.
3. Mohammed Saadat ( team-bhp id - saadat1992 ) - never replaced - odo at 41,000 kms
4. My friend in Kochi - Vinu - never replaced - odo at 40,000 kms ( He still had 5 mm left ).
5. A taxi that I know of - replaced at 70,000 kms.

So, it's more to do with my kind of driving and the kind of roads I drive on ( busy highways in Kerala ) that I end up changing brake pads every 30,000 kms. Generally, the Etios brake pads stay really long ( 50,000 kms plus easily )

[Sinner666]

Originally Posted by SMARTF

Hi Amalji,

I have been following your posts and it has helped me in deciding to buy Liva GD this September. Thanks a lot

You mentioned that NVH is less in newer models, my experience ... it is still too much at speed > 100

Can you suggest anything to reduce NVH ?

I have upgraded to 15" alloy (asked for Toyota alloy used in higher variants) with Bridgestone B290 tyers.

How much did the 15" alloys from the V model cost you? I am picking up a Liva GD next week, and was thinking of a tyre upgrade. Asked the accessories guy at the dealership for the V alloys, and he quoted approx 60k for a set of 4!

He himself politely suggested I should look at aftermarket rims as they would work out more cost effective.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Sinner666

How much did the 15" alloys from the V model cost you? I am picking up a Liva GD next week, and was thinking of a tyre upgrade. Asked the accessories guy at the dealership for the V alloys, and he quoted approx 60k for a set of 4!

He himself politely suggested I should look at aftermarket rims as they would work out more cost effective.

15" Stock Toyota Alloys cost around 3000 per alloy and 500 per Toyota emblem fixed on these alloys. That 60,000 INR figure is far from reality.

[SMARTF]

:

Originally Posted by Sinner666

How much did the 15" alloys from the V model cost you? I am picking up a Liva GD next week, and was thinking of a tyre upgrade. Asked the accessories guy at the dealership for the V alloys, and he quoted approx 60k for a set of 4!

He himself politely suggested I should look at aftermarket rims as they would work out more cost effective.

I was offered a set of 5 wheels and tyres for 60 k
he offered to take back old wheels and tyres for Rs.15000/- so net 45K for 5

Outside, the set of 5 wheels and tyres may cost you less then 45k minus old wheels and tyres

[quadbike]

I think if you are going for Toyota OEM Alloys, you should definitely go for the ones on the Etios Cross. They are great.

[Sinner666]

My bad! I just plainly believed what the guy at the sales counter said.

I called up the service center over phone again, and the Etios 15" alloys cost INR 4127+ST. And as per the service center, the black ones (that is what the store manager said - I am assuming these are the Diamond cut ones on the Cross) also cost the same.

How much of a buyback can I expect on the original tyres at the showroom itself, or would it make more sense getting this done outside the showroom?

[amalji]

For the first time after buying the vehicle, I have replaced a mechanical part due to ageing ( at 92,000 kms ). Here comes the 90,000 kms service update done at 92,000 kms on the odo.

Planned Service

Parts

• Synthetic Oil ( 4l can ) - 3109.20 INR
• Oil Filter - 400 INR
• Oil Filter Gasket - 51 INR
• Front brake pads ( changing after 35,500 kms ) - 2302 INR
• AC Filter - 295 INR
• Windshield Washer fluid ( 3 sachets ) - 105 INR
• Wiper blade rubber - 160 INR
• VAT @ 14.5% - 931.22 INR

Total Cost for parts for the planned service - 7353.42 INR

Labour

• 90000 kms service - 1155 INR
• Brake pad replacement - 204 INR
• Wiper blade rubber replacement - 68 INR
• Service tax @ 14.5 % - 206.92 INR

Total Labour cost for planned service - 1633.92 INR

Complaints

This time, for a change, in addition to the planned service, I had a complaint as well. The rear suspension was making a "Quack Quack" sound when the vehicle goes over a hump. This was random, and happens when the underbody is unclean. But, since it was recurring every week after an under body wash, I thought of getting it checked.

Inputs from Toyota staff

• The rubber sleeve fixed on top of the rear coil springs have torn off and this will cause the metal to rub against the body.
• Even though there is no oil leak, the rear suspensions are weak and they would recommend them to be replaced.
• Since, mine is a 2011 model Etios ( one among the first batch of Etios Diesels ), it had soft suspensions on it. The new suspension design is stiffer and increases the ground clearance slightly as well. So, he recommended that I go for it.

Based on the above inputs, I asked them to replace both the rear coil spring rubber sleeves as well as the rear suspensions. The cost split-up of the parts mentioned below.

Parts

• Rear shock absorber set - new stiffer design with higher GC ( 1 pair - left and right ) ( part no: A-T0480-W1304 ) - 1426 INR
• Sleeve for RR Coil spring ( 1 pair - left & right ) - 116 INR
• VAT @ 14.5% - 223.59

Total Cost of parts for complaint fix - 1765.59 INR

Labour

Shock Absorber and Coil spring replacement for rear left and rear right - 680 INR
Service tax @ 14.5% - 98.6 INR
Total Labour cost for complaint fix - 778.6 INR

• Total cost of 90,000 kms service with fully synthetic oil, brake pad replacement, wiper blade rubber replacement and rear suspension replacement - 11,531.52 INR
• Had I opted for stock Toyota mineral Oil instead of synthetic oil, the cost would have been around 9400 INR instead

Had I been on SMILES, I would have saved 50% on the labour cost of brake pad replacement and suspension replacement ( 506.09 INR ) + 10% on the overall service cost ( around another 500 INR ). I didn't avail the SMILES pack since, i had lost the custom SMILES pack book. And I'm dependent on this custom book and not the online SMILES account since Toyota doesn't have a SMILES pack option for the service with a customized part ( in my case, I use Toyota synthetic oil instead of the stock Toyota mineral oil recommended by Toyota )

Feedback of the service ( @ Injakkal Nippon Toyota, Trivandrum )

• Timeliness - Since, I had a few complaints this time, instead of the EM60 1.5 hour service, the time taken was 6.5 hours. Regardless, they got the car ready 10 minutes before the promised delivery time of 6 pm.
• Work Quality - Good
• Completeness of work - This time, for the first time, they missed something I told them completely. I had asked them to put the best 2 tyres in the front and balance them as well. They completely missed this. I posted a feedback online. Within 2 hours, I received a call from Toyota. And within another 1 hour, I received a call from Nippon Toyota dealership as well. They apologized and asked if it will be possible for me to bring the car back. I told, I have already left for Bangalore and that I will get it corrected from a tyre shop. The feedback was given as an input to improve their own service.
• Toyota's response to complaint - Good

[ff1609]

Originally Posted by amalji

For the first time after buying the vehicle, I have replaced a mechanical part due to ageing ( at 92,000 kms ). Here comes the 90,000 kms service update done at 92,000 kms on the odo.

I hope you continue to enjoy your car with minimal maintenance cost, until recently I used to be a huge advocate of this car simply due to the low cost of maintenance. I have a liva GD which has done 85k kms, toyota had replaced its front and rear shock absorbers earlier on due to noise but that was under warranty.
Till date, the only items that I have paid for are:

Paid service
Engine oil (mineral always)
Windscreen wash concentrate
Wiper blades
Air filter
Alignment/ balancing
First set of tires replaced at 63k kms
First battery at 83k kms
First front brake pads at 84k kms

You mentioned somewhere that the brake pads cost Rs. 2200, which is the same as what I paid but were you not charged some 1000 odd rupees as labour for replacing front brake pads?

Like all cars running with this engine, the car 'consumes' a liter of engine oil between two services (10k kms), Toyota has not cared to fix that!

For a very long time (40k kms) I have been complaining about excessive noise from the engine bay and Toyota never acknowledged it, now as soon as the car is out of warranty I have been told that the noise has been diagnosed and I need a new water pump, V belt and tensioner for 30k (same parts cost less than a third for Swift).

The SA also tells me that by the time I hit 100k kms, the clutch will invariably need replacement and that costs anywhere from 18k to 25k (hard to believe considering clutch costs half of this on similar cars).

The service advisor at Espirit toyota, Noida had sneakily added some 'synthetic lubrication for engine mounts' at Rs. 2550+tax to my service estimate, I spotted it in time and declined. He also added a 3M lubrication pack for doors etc at Rs 455+tax - at the time of delivery I noticed that it was not done and got the charges removed.

Brake pads have been changed (as per bill) but I feel no difference in braking, going to go back and have them show me if these were changed at all!


So yeah, for me at least, it looks like low maintenance applies only during warranty!

[amalji]

Originally Posted by ff1609

You mentioned somewhere that the brake pads cost Rs. 2200, which is the same as what I paid but were you not charged some 1000 odd rupees as labour for replacing front brake pads?

I have clearly mentioned in my previous post - the labour cost for brake pad replacement which is 204 INR and not 1000 INR as you mentioned.
Had I been on SMILES package, the labour cost would have been just 102 INR ( not even 204 )
Which dealership charged you 1000 INR? Could you please post the bill here ? PM me your car registration number as well ( if possible ).

Originally Posted by ff1609

Like all cars running with this engine, the car 'consumes' a liter of engine oil between two services (10k kms), Toyota has not cared to fix that!

I don't think, this is correct. Can you please post more info on this. I've never had to topup engine oil ever in these 90,000 kms. I've full service history of cars that covered 1,25,000 kms as well. Never had I seen such a complaint anywhere.

Originally Posted by ff1609

For a very long time (40k kms) I have been complaining about excessive noise from the engine bay and Toyota never acknowledged it, now as soon as the car is out of warranty I have been told that the noise has been diagnosed and I need a new water pump, V belt and tensioner for 30k (same parts cost less than a third for Swift).

Your dealership seems to be taking you for a ride. Can you post the dealership details here ?

Originally Posted by ff1609

The SA also tells me that by the time I hit 100k kms, the clutch will invariably need replacement and that costs anywhere from 18k to 25k (hard to believe considering clutch costs half of this on similar cars).

Again, completely wrong info provided by dealership. Clutch pad replacement is completely dependent on your driving style. We have driven

1.25 lakhs on Zen
1.15 lakhs on Esteem &
90,000 odd on Etios.

Never have we touched the clutch ever. The Zen and Esteem's current owners are people whom I know and they have not replaced clutch till date. Similarly, there are several Etios taxis which has covered 2 lakh plus kms on the odo without clutch replacement. So, completely wrong info given by the SA here. And even the cost seems to be completely out of place. Let me talk to Nippon Toyota on this.

Originally Posted by ff1609

The service advisor at Espirit toyota, Noida had sneakily added some 'synthetic lubrication for engine mounts' at Rs. 2550+tax to my service estimate, I spotted it in time and declined. He also added a 3M lubrication pack for doors etc at Rs 455+tax - at the time of delivery I noticed that it was not done and got the charges removed.

You can buy the new design hydraulic engine mount from Toyota for that price. Refer - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3106682

Change your dealership. From what you have told till now, they seem to be running some kind of scam!

Originally Posted by ff1609

Brake pads have been changed (as per bill) but I feel no difference in braking, going to go back and have them show me if these were changed at all!

I would recommend that you check it in a 3rd party garage. From what you have told till now, I wouldn't trust the dealership at all!

Originally Posted by ff1609

So yeah, for me at least, it looks like low maintenance applies only during warranty!

Not the case with Nippon Toyota, Kerala or Anamalais Toyota, TN. They have been pretty professional till date. But, the experiences you had is nothing short of horrible. You should raise a complaint directly with Toyota. I'll also be sending an email to Toyota referring to your post. But, if you can share your vehicle registration number, that would help get the right attention for the complaint.

[amalji]

@ff1609 - I talked to Nippon Toyota, Kalamassery service lead and these are his inputs.
PS: He has read your posts here.

• The labour cost mentioned for brake pad replacement is completely wrong. Either your SA took you for a ride, or they made a mistake. 204 is the labour cost for brake pad replacement. If it's under SMILES, the cost is just 102 INR.
• There is no such product for engine mount lubrication recommended by Toyota. Engine mount replacement itself will only cost as much as the lubrication cost mentioned by your SA at Espirit Toyota, Noida. That too, the new hydraulic mounts in 2014 models, not even the rubber ones fitted in 2011/2012 model of Etios Liva
• Door lubrication is done free of cost as part of the service. There is no extra cost for it. But, 3m has a product for it. Probably, the SA was trying to push it. Nippon Toyota has got strict instructions not to push such products.
• Clutch replacement is only dependent on the driving style. He knows Etios vehicles for which clutch replacement has not been done for 3 lakh kms. And he also knows Etios vehicles for which clutch replacement was done at around 70,000 kms as well.
• Clutch replacement cost mentioned by your SA is completely wrong. If you replace clutch plate and pressure plate, it will cost you just 6000 INR. If you also replace release cylinder, it will cost you another 6,000 INR.
• Waterpump, belt and tensioner seems to be a very odd combination for replacements ( unless if the vehicle met with an accident or some other similar history behind it. ).
• He doesn't remember even a single replacement of the water pump in Nippon Toyota, Kalamassery ( the largest car dealership in India, probably has the highest sales numbers for Toyota as well )
• Tensioner has been replaced under warranty in some cases, where users complained of a small sound when accelerating. But, again it's very rare.
• Even if there is a genuine case for Water pump, Belt and tensioner to be replaced, the cost would be half of what is mentioned in this post. It will be around 15k.
• He asked for the registration number of the car which I couldn't give since I don't have that information.
• He felt that if this is a case of cheating, the same should be brought up to the dealership management and if you don't get a resolve there, it should be escalated to Toyota as well