[Yeldo]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Now I understand why do I see very few Mercs compared to BMWs & Audis in Kerala [Cochin mostly] whenever I travel there. When I see a total of 10 BMW+Audis, I hardly see 1 Merc. And they blame others for their dismal sales! Wonderful!

Just want to check, is the error rate high only for ML or it's the same across the Merc product range?

I'm sorry to go , as this is a thread about an owner's experience, but the ML's very poor image is part reason for what you have rightly pointed out. The other is that, in the same segment, the Q7 sells at somewhat similar price, and it offers a bigger size, a more "posh" brand, and more perceived glamor.

The traditional Mercedes buyer now goes after the other options, since BMW, Audi, and Jaguar/ Range Rover have dealers in Kerala. New customers in the segment are enticed by the lower entry prices offered especially by BMW and the somewhat illusionary peace of mind that a service package offers. (Mercedes sales guy once told me: "Sir, we charge you over 3 years, they charge you once upfront"). The slow pace that Mercedes takes in product launch/ placement is yet another reason for low sales.

But AFAIK, the E Class is selling well. For many, it is the quintessential Benz.

[Fullrevs]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Strange; somewhere I read that ML is Lewis Hamilton's daily ride. Crazy to say the least!

I thought it was the GL?

Since we are talking about the popularity of the Mercedes brand in kerala. There was a time during the 90's and late 80's where almost all malayalees wished for a Merc (called Bensss in our malayalee accent). It was the only car they knew. So many people (including my father) imported their 240 D's from the gulf. Even though it was left-hand drive.

The ML sales seem to be pretty high in hyderabad. I see so many of them on the roads. Brand new ones too.

I'm a sucker for the Q7. Would opt for that any day.

[GTO]

Manveet, Sorry to hear about your experience, but I'm not at all surprised. Merc's extremely poor reliability is the primary reason that it won't figure on my shopping list any time soon. Well, atleast not the lousily complex new Mercs. Wouldn't mind a classic W126 though, wot?

I'm extremely concerned about so many manufacturing defects in a 1 year old car. If you've had to change so many components in the first year itself, what's to tell after owning the car for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5+ years? Sure, right now you have the warranty, what after?

I'm just going to go ahead and say you made a poor choice by buying the Mercedes ML350. If it were me, I'd hold on to it for another year or two (only because I'd already bought it). Still unreliable? Drop it. The Mercedes experience can be summarised as:

Warranty Period : The EMIs & Service Costs will break your back

Post-Warranty : The repair bills will break your back.

This is not even counting the headache, time spent off the road, inconvenience etc.

If Mercedes can't build a reliable car, well, even a Maruti Alto completely owns them.

[F150]

Originally Posted by GTO

I'm just going to go ahead and say you made a poor choice by buying the Mercedes ML350. If it were me, I'd hold on to it for another year or two (only because I'd already bought it). Still unreliable? Drop it. The Mercedes experience can be summarised as:

Warranty Period : The EMIs & Service Costs will break your back

Post-Warranty : The repair bills will break your back.

This is not even counting the headache, time spent off the road, inconvenience etc.

If Mercedes can't build a reliable car, well, even a Maruti Alto completely owns them.

What SUV would have gone for,if you were in the market for an SUV in the same price range ?

Doesn't Mercedes have a shield similar to BMW and others ? which would cover every thing for 4 yrs ?

Have to agree that even it had a shield, its a big pain to visit the MASS time and again.

[Y@SH]

Originally Posted by GTO

Warranty Period : The EMIs & Service Costs will break your back

Post-Warranty : The repair bills will break your back.

This is not even counting the headache, time spent off the road, inconvenience etc.

If Mercedes can't build a reliable car, well, even a Maruti Alto completely owns them.

Well everyone has their own experiences with cars Rush, its not fair to jump to conclusions that mercedes isint reliable. I own a 2005 Merc E270 CDI that has clocked over 42k but till now surprisingly haven't faced any major problems. The only mechanical problem(s) I faced are
1) Replacement of the engine foundation bushes, due to their breakage the car was vibrating in idle position.
2) Turbo pipe had developed a crack so that was replaced.
3) Rear door look would not autolock/open changed the mechanism.

And the usual expenses of servicing it.

I am also not coming to conclusions, this is just my own experience.

[Zappo]

My dear friend! You have quoted 3 failures here for a car that has done only 42k kms. But look at the failures. These are all big ticket ones in my opinion. Turbo pipe developing a crack can lead to bigger potential problems (may even lead to complete turbo failure). Similarly, Engine foundation bushes cracked? So early in the life cyle? Unless of course you are saying that you drive it in places where there are absolutely no roads. Lock mechanism gave away. may not be anything very big but thats something usually you do not see even cars with double the mileage on the clock.

See the problem here that people are referring to is that Merc vis a vis most others (read humble manufacturers whose cars at times cost even 1/10th that of a Merc) shows us that others do not see such a huge failure rate. Huge here refers to the regular reporting of critical issues in comparatively newer cars by different buyers. While service costs being high for such high end cars is one thing the frequent rate of failure is definitely not acceptable on such cars.

Originally Posted by Y@SH

Well everyone has their own experiences with cars Rush, its not fair to jump to conclusions that mercedes isint reliable. I own a 2005 Merc E270 CDI that has clocked over 42k but till now surprisingly haven't faced any major problems. The only mechanical problem(s) I faced are
1) Replacement of the engine foundation bushes, due to their breakage the car was vibrating in idle position.
2) Turbo pipe had developed a crack so that was replaced.
3) Rear door look would not autolock/open changed the mechanism.

And the usual expenses of servicing it.

I am also not coming to conclusions, this is just my own experience.

[Y@SH]

Originally Posted by Zappo

My dear friend! You have quoted 3 failures here for a car that has done only 42k kms. But look at the failures. These are all big ticket ones in my opinion. Turbo pipe developing a crack can lead to bigger potential problems (may even lead to complete turbo failure). Similarly, Engine foundation bushes cracked? So early in the life cyle? Unless of course you are saying that you drive it in places where there are absolutely no roads. Lock mechanism gave away. may not be anything very big but thats something usually you do not see even cars with double the mileage on the clock.
.

These aren't major problems, and didnt cost much as well.

Turbo pipe developed a crack and was replaced by Autohanger at only Rs. 1500/. And No! I dont go offroading with the vehicle, Engine bushes getting cracked, can be because of clocking many kms or usual wear and tear etc, so what? Dont expect that a car wont give you any niggles. I am not complaining that why did it get cracked or anything.

These aren't failures or critical problems Debraj, just minor ones that can happen to any car. I agree that what is happened with manveet is unfortunate and he should take it up with his dealership.

When you buy expensive cars you shouldn't expect it not to have any problems (at least i dont), the more technologically advanced a car is the more chances of developing a problem!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by F150

What SUV would have gone for,if you were in the market for an SUV in the same price range ?

I'm a pre-worshipped kinda guy and would just buy a Landcruiser LC200 for 40 - 45 lakhs. All the space, power & refinement I need with Corolla-like reliability. And hey, it can offroad rather well too.

Doesn't Mercedes have a shield similar to BMW and others ? which would cover every thing for 4 yrs ?

Their warranty + service package is nowhere as extensive as what BMW offers. And even then, what do we pay premium $$$ for? FAILURE? Is it too much to expect for a car to reliably take you from point A -> point B (it's primary function)? If a car has so many defects in the first year, how will it perform in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th year of ownership?

Originally Posted by Y@SH

Well everyone has their own experiences with cars Rush, its not fair to jump to conclusions that mercedes isint reliable. I own a 2005 Merc E270 CDI that has clocked over 42k but till now surprisingly haven't faced any major problems. The only mechanical problem(s) I faced are

I know some people who have C & E Class' with 100,000 kms on the clock and no issues. BUT they are the minority. See, every manufacturer has reliable <-> defect-free cars. Even the Japanese (traditional hallmarks of reliability) have some defective examples.

The difference is, out of a 100 cars, how many do you make that are reliable upto 100,000 - 200,000 kms (typical retention by 1st owner in India)? This is where Mercedes completely fails. Look up the many reports & experiences by actual owners on Team-BHP.

When you buy expensive cars you shouldn't expect it not to have any problems (at least i dont), the more technologically advanced a car is the more chances of developing a problem!

Tell me how the Lexus LS460 - a car with equal / more gizmos than an S-Class - has the reliability of a Corolla?

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by Y@SH

These aren't major problems, and didnt cost much as well.



When you buy expensive cars you shouldn't expect it not to have any problems (at least i dont), the more technologically advanced a car is the more chances of developing a problem!

A digression maybe, but in my view relevant to context. Advanced technology per se DOES NOT translate to high failure rate. This is NOT debatable.

You are paying top dollar for the product. If after paying that, as GTO says it can not enable movement from A to B without hiccups on an ongoing basis barring routine scheduled maintenance then something is very very wrong here.

[Neil.Bhujbal]

Mercedes has got nothing to do with the problems you have faced except the windshield crack (hard luck) & airmatic strut (common) problem.

Rest all problems you faced are because of the dealership. They camber bolt I am sure was damaged by the dealership guys. The early flash of service interval isn't early but on exact time i.e 365 days and 15K kms may be you were delivered the vehicle late.

If possible I will request the mods to change the thread name from Unreliable Mercedes ML350 to something else.

When any dealership actually wants to they can get even customer damaged parts replaced under warranty.

Write about the problems you have faced to Mercedes Benz India.

[dot]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Most of the parts and machinery come from Germany. American workers are merely pushing the buttons to put it in simple terms.

The outcome is bad because of design and not manufacturing.

My experience of dealing with same products made from different plants tells me that drift, different cultural practices, different management, customer needs, do cause changes in the same product if it produced in different counties, countries or continents.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by dot

My experience of dealing with same products made from different plants tells me that drift, different cultural practices, different management, customer needs, do cause changes in the same product if it produced in different counties, countries or continents.

I have too and its quite a general statement.
In a well managed company with a high level of automation, it should not be the case.

If Mercedes is blaming cultural practices for its high failure rate then I guess it was a foolish decision by them to build a plant outside Germany. At the end of the day, the company is responsible for its products and actions.


In any case, the sole global source for all M-classes is the MB plant in Birmingham Alabama so you cant really compare it to a German made M-class.

[manveet]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

You know what it means: Indian roads are 'off road' enough for these German Soft roaders. I think until and unless the infrastructure and fuel quality improves these Germans will have a 'prime' excuse to blame it on the owner and fuel quality. For every owner (of these expensive Germans) who comes out like you there must be at least 5 suffering silently and coughing up the huge repair bills. I think Germans have learnt from the Indians that it pays to be 'corrupt' in India and get away with it. If these cars aren't meant to be run in less than adequate roads and fuel like ours, then why do they sell it here?

Originally Posted by Raosaheb Desai

The main excuse is INDIAN DRIVING CONDITIONS, if its correct then why you sell your unfit products in India???

Originally Posted by Fullrevs

agree with Desai. They claim to be the best cars in the world but they are just nto suited for our Indian conditions. Case in point is manveet's accord. I have a V6 and a CRV and its had no such issues at all.

Yes, you guys are absolutely right on that aspect. The moment we bring up the suspension, tyre, or camber-bolt issue with the dealership, the dealership's standard response is that "you must have driven rashly over some very bad road stretches".

Our response to this is simple:

1. This is a 60L luxury SUV which Mercedes claims to be an extremely capable "off-roader". If Mercedes endorses this statement made by the dealer, then it is an insult to us, as well as to the Mercedes ML350 that they sell to us in India.
2. We reiterate > my father and I are VERY careful drivers. 80% of driving is urban (south Delhi), and 20% is highway (4-5 trips to Chandigarh, 1 to Agra, and 1 to Chail). This vehicle has NEVER been taken "offroad" or handled anything less that immaculately. We are open to subjecting the vehicle to any kind of tests by the company that can prove otherwise.
3. The problems of Suspension, Tire, and camber-bolt have NOT taken place at-once. They have occurred independently and over a period of 6 months. Therefore, it is highly improbable that the problems are "incident-based". We could give a benefit of doubt for one problem, but three such related problems within a period of six months are too much to digest.
4. We own a Honda Accord which will complete 8 years this March and has clocked about 55,000 kms, plus it has been running on lower-profile tires for the last 2 years at-least. There has never been ANY suspension/ tire/ or any other related problem EVER. It is also in excellent condition - will definitely with us for the next 2 years. My previous Honda (OHC) served me loyally for 11 years, clocked about 90,000 kms - and never gave any issues. These things may seem off-topic, but are relevant if seen from a perspective of how we treat our cars.

The T&T sales guy (with due respect) tells me that he has personally sold 15-20 of these vehicles but no one is facing any such problem. Well, in that case it is all the more reason for me to be worried. And if those ML's are in fact facing troubles, then Mercedes should be worried. Either ways, doesn't seem very bright for the Mercedes, at least from where I stand.

Originally Posted by Fullrevs

Manveet - maybe you ought to use the car more frequently to sort out the issues regarding service.

Vehicle is driven perhaps twice a week, and has averaged about 800 kms a month. We start it almost every alternate day during the weekdays, when we need to change the order of the cars parked in the drive.

I would agree that it could do with more driving, but in my opinion our driving pattern is quite OK from a "causing problems" perspective.

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

Both Q7 & ML class Mercs are obviously intended for usage in similar terrains and are similarly priced. The contrast in usage experience cited here for ML versus Q7 usage experience that I have been told about is striking to say the least.

I have strong opinions regarding a lot of cars, and especially around the Q7. Some of them may have changed due to my recent experience. But I am trying hard not to comment on Q7 vs. X5 vs. ML, as that is not the intention of this thread.

But to be fair, car to car, both the Q7 and the ML are nice and have their sets of pros and cons. Perhaps I will share my views on another thread, do let me know if something on those lines is there on the forum.

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

In this context I am reminded of the writings of one of the founder mods @GTO regarding his Merc and one other long term usage review written by another member.

It seems MB quality is at fault rather than our friend landing a lemon.

Please share the link. Thanks.

Originally Posted by the VTEC guy

Check the manufacturing date based on the VIN number of your car. There is a thread related to this how to. You will get the exact manufacture date/month.

Please share the link. Will do so at the earliest as I really need to figure out the whereabouts of my car in the 2 months leading to its purchase.

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by manveet

Please share the link. Thanks.

Here you go

Thread OP: GTO

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ms-update.html


Thread OP: lamborghini

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...0-000-kms.html

[Raosaheb Desai]

After I bought X Trail, many of my friends were surprised with my decision to buy Nissan instead of beemer or merc with this much money. I wanted a everyday car, not a showpiece. I must admit that after a year long trouble free ownership and 32k km driving I am in love with this machine.
Whichever car you buy, whether a humble Alto or high end SUV like ML, it should have reasonable reliability for day to day running.
Though I am also a big fan of beemer's handling, merc's ride quality, I will think twice to buy these as everyday car. For the same reason, lot of owners of these luxury brands have at least one Honda or Toyota in their garage !!!