[speedsatya]

Originally Posted by GTO

Manveet, Sorry to hear about your experience, but I'm not at all surprised. Merc's extremely poor reliability is the primary reason that it won't figure on my shopping list any time soon. Well, atleast not the lousily complex new Mercs. Wouldn't mind a classic W126 though, wot?

I'm extremely concerned about so many manufacturing defects in a 1 year old car. If you've had to change so many components in the first year itself, what's to tell after owning the car for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5+ years? Sure, right now you have the warranty, what after?

I'm just going to go ahead and say you made a poor choice by buying the Mercedes ML350. If it were me, I'd hold on to it for another year or two (only because I'd already bought it). Still unreliable? Drop it. The Mercedes experience can be summarised as:

Warranty Period : The EMIs & Service Costs will break your back

Post-Warranty : The repair bills will break your back.

This is not even counting the headache, time spent off the road, inconvenience etc.

If Mercedes can't build a reliable car, well, even a Maruti Alto completely owns them.

GTO ,

I remember your C Class experience and I have read about similar experiences about E class owners . I have always been wanting to write about this ,but never came across an appropriate thread .Manveet's experience has got me shocked !

If this was to happen with a Skoda or a Fiat ,there would have been so much of a hue and cry .

What I fail to understand is that if MBIL products are so unreliable ,why is that people still keep paying so much money to buy them ? What is it that is driving people to buy MBIL products.

[manveet]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

GTO ,

I remember your C Class experience and I have read about similar experiences about E class owners . I have always been wanting to write about this ,but never came across an appropriate thread .Manveet's experience has got me shocked !

If this was to happen with a Skoda or a Fiat ,there would have been so much of a hue and cry .

What I fail to understand is that if MBIL products are so unreliable ,why is that people still keep paying so much money to buy them ? What is it that is driving people to buy MBIL products.

Lack of information, perhaps?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

What I fail to understand is that if MBIL products are so unreliable ,why is that people still keep paying so much money to buy them ?

1. There's a sucker born every minute (Link)

2. Lure of the brand & prestige. C'mon, we are talking about Mercedes-Benz here. Equally, I might add, sorry ownership experiences will continue to erode the brand's value. I for one am NOT looking at buying a new Mercedes for a long, long time.

3. The fact that there are no reliable (read = Japanese) options in the 20+ lakh space. Boy, I wish Lexus & Infinity make their way here soon. Do you know that Lexus (without the 100 year heritage of Benz) outsold Benz for 15 years in a row in the States? That's the world's biggest luxury car market BTW.

4. Chauffeur-driven owners who couldn't care too much about the car's issues, or have their accountants look after the upkeep. When the Benz is in the garage, there are always some more Mercs & Beemers to use from the garage. This category of owner couldn't care less about the cost of upkeep or the reliability (a certain industrialist sold his <3 year old S350 for 18 lakhs. He didn't even know his car was worth twice as much).

5. As Manveet said, lack of awareness. No Merc owner expects problems, especially after his previous car (say, an Accord) served him just as well. In today's highly competitive car market, reliability is taken for granted. Even by the Maruti 800 owner. When you buy a new LCD, do you worry about whether it will conk off every other day? That's how it might be for those who don't know about cars.

Wait till Lexus comes. It has the potential to be a game-changer.

[manveet]

Originally Posted by GTO

4. Chauffeur-driven owners who couldn't care too much about the car's issues, or have their accountants look after the upkeep. When the Benz is in the garage, there are always some more Mercs & Beemers to use from the garage. This category of owner couldn't care less about the cost of upkeep or the reliability (a certain industrialist sold his <3 year old S350 for 18 lakhs. He didn't even know his car was worth twice as much).

I would perhaps say this is not so much about being chauffeur driven, but more about being Company-owned.

My point is that contrary to popular perception, majority of Mercedes individual owners (read not company owned car users) still care a lot about their hard-earned money.

But yes, the pain caused is always proportional to the opportunity cost. So a Mercedes owner may go easy on 1200 bucks for wheel balancing or 2000 bucks for a car-wash, but end of the day it pinches when the value delivered is much less than the value expected. This is applicable to both, Mercedes as well as Maruti owners.

[jaguar.runs]

Originally Posted by manveet

Problem 4 : Airmatic Suspension replacement in Oct 2011

Some time in September end the vehicle has developed some irritating rattles so we take to the T&T workshop. They decide to keep it for a day or so. Vehicle is returned informing us that the complete Airmatic suspension has been replaced - no satisfactory explanation given with respect to the cause.

Manveet, The hydro-pneumatic suspension for W164 had issues and was replaced worldwide during scheduled service under warranty. It was not a critical one to be categorized as a recall.

[manveet]

Originally Posted by jaguar.runs

Manveet, The hydro-pneumatic suspension for W164 had issues and was replaced worldwide during scheduled service under warranty. It was not a critical one to be categorized as a recall.

Couple of points ..

1. T&T has categorically told me that this is a manufacturing defect that has happened "by chance" and happens once in a while as a vehicle is a "machine after-all". Note that as per T&T this is similar to the "by-chance" manufacturing defect in the wind-shield but not at all related to the camber bolt problem which is in fact also a part of the suspension!!
2. This was not done in the first service, but when the vehicle was taken specifically against problems related to rattling.
3. I do not have the knowledge or experience to comment whether a faulty suspension part is critical or not. But at estimated cost of 2,90,000/- for the replacement - it is surely expensive.

[Sahil]

When will MBIL ever learn!

The upcoming Sclass seems like a promising upgrade but I refuse to buy a Mercedes until they get BSI packs like BMW

[jaguar.runs]

Originally Posted by manveet

Couple of points ..

1. T&T has categorically told me that this is a manufacturing defect that has happened "by chance" and happens once in a while as a vehicle is a "machine after-all". Note that as per T&T this is similar to the "by-chance" manufacturing defect in the wind-shield but not at all related to the camber bolt problem which is in fact also a part of the suspension!!
2. This was not done in the first service, but when the vehicle was taken specifically against problems related to rattling.
3. I do not have the knowledge or experience to comment whether a faulty suspension part is critical or not. But at estimated cost of 2,90,000/- for the replacement - it is surely expensive.

Manveet, I will explain in detail.

1. Manufacturing defects can happen, in the case of your windshield even you could not spot any defect until the windshield cracked. As a dealer, T&T should have voluntarily taken your case to the warranty dept of MB with proper pictures. I can see that they are not good at this as they completely messed up your warranty claim for the tire. I am not aware of any cases regarding the camber bolt. Did they do a wheel alignment after the suspension change? You can ask for the details of the procedures to them, it is your right, even if the work is done free of charge.

2. Dealers get the information from MB for service measures and they are asked to complete the procedure either through a recall or during the next workshop visit, not scheduled service as I mentioned earlier (My Bad).

3. Any critical part would be replaced via recall. Any part which does not affect the normal operation or safety of the vehicle is not categorized as critical. When MB receives lot of warranty claims for a particular part, they investigate and launch corrective measures. These parts are replaced FOC even after warranty period.

Warranty cases are accepted by manufacturers depending on how strong the case is presented to them.

Don't think that I am supporting MBIL or endorsing that MB is perfect in terms of manufacturing quality. Just sharing the info I am aware of.

[tsk1979]

I see a very disturbing trend. Every time a vehicle develops many faults, if dealer fixes problem under warranty, the owner is supposed to be happy.
I just like to remind everyone that warranties are not for lifetime, and we did not buy vehicles to get warranty. Otherwise dealers would have said. Buy warranty for 50L and we will give you mercedes for free.
Unfortunately, expectation of people is going very low. Earlier vehicles were supposed to last 300,000kms, now 30,000kms is considered great.
This is being reflected in the the quality(or lack thereof) in case of many companies.

MY advice to manveet.
Calculate, how much it would have cost you if vehicle had not been in warranty. This is what it will cost you once warranty is over. So sell it off, unless you can comfortably afford the after warranty repairs without feeling the pinch.

[S350L-E240]

Hello,

Have been in a similar situation in the past and like you said you were scared of even going to Ludhiana, we have had similar stories and can relate to a few issues here which I faced,


Before I start a general notice is Mercedes has had few major bad technologies in terms of reliability and until the entire product cycle does not change which will be another six years please avoid the cars with Airmatic suspensions, 5 speed transmissions and earlier 7g tronic

1. I had this issue with my S class but for me our previous dealer was very helpful and got the glass replaced without charge, it was again without any impact.

3. I assume AC units are still the same old ones, we have had to twice replace the compressor and frequently clean filters which did not need to be done on the 7 in the family or host of other cars we had. Another major Mercedes problem,

4. Airmatic suspension in Mercedes is best if you stay away from it, yes it's come a long way and problems are not as bad as until 2006 but it still is an issue of major concern for Mercedes and until a whole new replacement comes continue to expect problems, and one guarantee I can give you is this will keep happening, I have lost count on the number of times a gentleman Mr.Lino marquis would come from Pune to fix it, until finally we just sold the cars off in frustration.

Is this normal you ask? Well I say not in the real world but in Mercedes this is the way of life, I'm not trying to diss the brand but they have to take a leap and the leap will only happen when nothing and I mean nothing designed and developed until the year 2004 gets used in their future cars, I truly recommend you sell it or else the loss financially and mentally just gets bigger,

that's my opinion from a guy whose name says s350 and e240 but sadly I'd think 1001 times before going back to Mercedes even though every morning the SLS asks me to get her home, but NO!

Also I have had a bad experience with the company staff but you can try speak to them I'm sure some have had a good experience,

Get in touch with mr. Chandrawarkar if he still is with the company but the best person is Manas Dewan.

Regards,

Originally Posted by manveet

Problem 1 : Front windshield cracks on its own while the car is parked in the drive.
This is sometime in the third month of ownership, around the last week of March 2011

Problem 3 : Air conditioner stops cooling in October.

This is traced to a dirty filter which they clean and cooling is good as new. Again, how the heck does a Mercedes AC filter get clogged in 10 months. Yes, we understand this is India and these are German cars that were not "designed for India".

Is this normal or are we just nit-picking. I am genuinely curious.

Problem 4 : Airmatic Suspension replacement in Oct 2011

Some time in September end the vehicle has developed some irritating rattles so we take to the T&T workshop. They decide to keep it for a day or so. Vehicle is returned informing us that the complete Airmatic suspension has been replaced - no satisfactory explanation given with respect to the cause.

Is this Normal? What should we do about this? Look forward to your suggestions and some first-hand inputs from fellow Merc owners.

[manveet]

Originally Posted by S350L-E240

I have lost count on the number of times a gentleman Mr.Lino marquis would come from Pune to fix it, until finally we just sold the cars off in frustration.

Who is this gentleman exactly. Is he a Diamler employee? Would you be so kind so as to inbox me your main contact point at Mercedes.

Originally Posted by S350L-E240

Get in touch with mr. Chandrawarkar if he still is with the company ..

Any idea about his role at Mercedes?

Originally Posted by S350L-E240

.. but the best person is Manas Dewan.

Manas Dewan is Head of Corporate Communication - young fellow, quite a dude, been in Mercedes for a while - not sure how he would be able to help but I will try speaking to him.

As of yesterday, we have dropped an email to Head of Marketing. Still awaiting a response.

[S350L-E240]

Hello,

Lino has quit, and believe me that's a good thing, we once had a suspension failure and he comes from pune, sees the car and just says no its ok and leaves and comes back in some more days and says oh sorry I didn't see the rear right strut,

Mr. Chandrawarkar is still there I believe and at a higher post and I think is head for after sales, like I said again he never helped much besides a sweet tounge and these are the people who I experienced with Mercedes since 1999 or so approximately which is why I stay away,

Manas dewan is head of communications yes, but he being a nice and helpful person will be able to put you across the right people, has helped me a lot and would rate him as the finest in MB India, the best have left and joined BMW and we all see where BMW India is today,

Regards,

Originally Posted by manveet

Who is this gentleman exactly. Is he a Diamler employee? Would you be so kind so as to inbox me your main contact point at Mercedes.



Any idea about his role at Mercedes?



Manas Dewan is Head of Corporate Communication - young fellow, quite a dude, been in Mercedes for a while - not sure how he would be able to help but I will try speaking to him.

As of yesterday, we have dropped an email to Head of Marketing. Still awaiting a response.

[manveet]

Please refer photograph of camber-bolts. Seem fine to me - would appreciate if someone could point out the damage.

[nandishpal]

the problem with mercedes is,wheel allignment is done by only the authorised service centre atleast in the w140,indy's dont even have an idea to set the camber & caster settings.
share your vin# will try to run it for you,lets see what the vin says.

[manveet]

Originally Posted by nandishpal

share your vin# will try to run it for you,lets see what the vin says.

Here you go ..

WDC1641222A656221

Please share what it turns up.